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Circumcision: Male Genital Mutilation?  
User currently offlineCsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Posted (10 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2310 times:

Just read an article on MSNBC about circumcised men trying to stretch their skin to regrow a foreskin. They say it brings enhanced sexual feeling, and is more natural, and it shouldn't be cut off by parents or doctors when the kids are infants and the kids have no choice, just to conform.

I'm Jewish and thus circumcised, so I got snipped when I was 8 days old. Had zero choice about it. Now I'm not one of those nutters who formed support groups to lament their late great organ, but the people seem to me to have a point when they say that it is a permanent body scarification and amputation made just for tribal identification, not medical necessity. What rights do parents have to scarify or permanently alter their children's bodies for ethnic, tribal or religious use?

In parts of Africa, great strides have been made to reduce female circumcision (more aptly termed female genital mutilation) Snipping an infants foreskin for religion or tribal identification does seem like the same thing. Obviously not as bad, because you're not lopping off the whole organ (they usually amputate the clitoris for girls) but I think it is really a question of degree, not of kind.

If you think cutting of a clitoris violates a girl's civil rights, then why not a boy's foreskin (granted the violation is not as bad)?

What are children's rights (if any) in this? When does religion or the rights of the parents to bring up child in a certain religion or cultural tradition that they have chosen have to give way to the rights of the child to body integrity?

< edited to give hyperlink to article >

http://www.msnbc.com/news/964825.asp?0dm=T246H

[Edited 2003-11-03 20:17:15]


I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
104 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2277 times:

Hygienic as well as aesthetic purposes toward it...

...at the risk of TMI, I'm very prejudice against uncircumsized guys as have have nothing but disgusting experiences with them. Anecdotal to compare those said few to the entire population, I know.... but still.  Sad


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2273 times:

Recent studies have shown that circumcised males have a lower risk of HIV infection than uncircumcised males. So, at least for now, cut dicks seem to have the upper hand (so to speak).

Size matters. The status of your foreskin is just a cultural tidbit.


User currently offlineCsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2273 times:

That is what people who support Female Genital Mutilation say to defend their practice, It's cleaner, etc., etc.

Again, neither, being uncircumcised, a woman, or gay, I wouldn't know but I gotta figure a guy can just, um, wash down there.



I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

I wouldn't know but I gotta figure a guy can just, um, wash down there

You'd think so...

...however, it seems that the whole once a day that many of them do just doesnt cut it!


User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11678 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2236 times:

This is one thing I have never understood about Christianity. Some of them get all upset over tattoos and piercings because we need to treat our body like a temple yet they take a newborn child and put him through pain becuase his parents want him to be identified as a Christian. My feeling: That is how males are born. Leave it be.

Contrary to ConcordeBoy, I like it....

GO CANUCKS!!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8166 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2217 times:

I was a few days old when it was done. I don't remember, my girlfriend loves it, and it looks beautiful. Verdict? Don't care.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2213 times:

Circumcision should be banned period!
We designed to have them.
Stop the brutal practice now!



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2208 times:

I was circumcised within a day of my birth (I'm not jewish, I'm Roman Catholic), as are most males born within the last 30 years in the United States. It was done in my case for aesthetic reasons as well as just the fact that it is easier to maintain oneself. No complaints here! I think it was a good choice.

Seb, you're right when you say that you don't understand some aspects of Christianity. Christians do not promote circumcision via any religious texts or anything of that nature. It was originally a practice performed by the Jews basically as a sign to show ones union with God. It's just becoming a more common practice nowadays, especially here in the US.



Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2206 times:

Circumcision should be banned period!
We designed to have them.
Stop the brutal practice now!


Oh please. What about our rights to privacy and doing what we want with our bodies as liberals always espouse?



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 2178 times:

There's a difference between a consenting adult and doing it to a baby.

User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4507 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 2169 times:

To be honest I dont consider it to be a mutilation of the male genitals at all. I'm circumcised, I have no issues with it and in fact I'm glad that I am. Just seems cleaner. I'm sorry that it seems to be such an issue for people but I'm just fine with it and if I ever have a son he'll be circumcised too. that's just how I feel. I dont find it wrong whatsoever.

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 2165 times:

B757300:
Dude, chill on the politcal b/s for just one thread!
This isn't a politcal issue.
Ain't you a gawd fearing christian anyway?
If you believe in God and see God as perfect and our creator, we should expect that he created us without any flaws. Thus God intended for us to have a foreskin.
It's religion that has screwed us up in to beliveing that we need to do this to our bodies.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4507 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 2157 times:

Honestly, the issue of circumcision for me has nothing at all to do with God. It's based on appearance alone really, and cleanliness. I dont belong to any set religion so the decision i make in regards to a future child, and the decision that was made when i was born, will not/were not made for religions reasons.

That said, God gave us a foreskin. He also gave us Free Will.  Big grin


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 2148 times:

Ban infant genital mutilation NOW!

NO circumcision until he is 18 and chooses to do so himself!



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePositive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2129 times:

It's based on appearance alone


Hmm ok, so you think the appearance is so important that it's worth putting the child through unnecessary pain? Btw it's not like everyone's gonna see it anyway so appearance really doesn't matter.


User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2128 times:

Put the child through uneccessary pain...yes the child feels it but do you remember it? No. Thus, it never happened mentally. Just physically.


Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

DeltaMD11:
yes the child feels it but do you remember it?

Still doesn't make it right.
It's WRONG!




Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2120 times:

Wrong on what grounds? Women (and men really) are allowed to mutilate their ears by putting holes in them for earrings, people mutilate their faces by having cosmetic surgery to get their desired look, the new thing is the shortening of toes to make your toes proportionate to eachother (smaller in descending order).

Why is it so wrong Superfly? It does not affect the way the organ is used or stops it from functioning to procreate. Thus, it is just a form of cosmetic surgery (as well as a religious ceremony for some).

[Edited 2003-11-04 00:23:41]


Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

DeltaMD11:
Scroll up and read post #12.
I don't like to repeat myself.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineTurbulence From Spain, joined Nov 1999, 963 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

I wouldn't say so much. Circumcision seems to have been a sanitary rule, as well as many other rules from the oldest ages. It was supposed to prevent STD, or to avoid "cultivation" of bacteries in a moist environment. Today, because cleanliness and sanitary rules are well known and mostly followed, such practices have remained stuck to religious reasons.
This is the same reason why adultery was forbidden, why unmarried sex was forbidden, why adultery was forbidden. Sexually transmittable diseases were quite "popular" by then, and limiting sexual practices to one person was quite an effective way to stop spreading them.
Still in religious rules, why do you think muslims do not eat pork? Today it is a religious rule, when it was "established" it was because in those regions it was too hot, and pigs had developed a number of diseases that were transmitted to humans.

As for the expression "male genital mutilation", do not be so "terrorist", and do not compare it to "FEMALE genital mutilation":

The circumcision is usually done when the child is very young, supposedly for sanitary reasons, a simple cut that almost never has consequences, and their ability to have sexual pleasure remains unchanged.
Ah!! and in little new-born babies, it does not hurt. And before puberty, the pain is so little that in many cases, before 4 or 5 years old, not even anesthesia is applied.

The "clitoris ablation" is a wild agressive practice to young girls who are developping (or have just developped) sexually, that hurts the hell of hells, that usually results in infectious processes that cause a significative number of deaths, for the sole purpose of making women "clean". What does it mean? that they will not try to experience "other sexuall pleasures out of the marriage" because those little women become UNABLE TO FEEL ANY KIND OF PLEASURE with sex (OK, actually they can feel something if they have a sensible man with them, female body is quite more sexually sensible than the male one, but reducing what can be quantificated as 90% of their sensibility).

Circumcision has not prooved to increase or improve anything, but does not become a source of problems.

Clitoris ablation is a wild bestial torture from which girls will NEVER recover, from which they loose the totality of their genital organs and sensibility, from which many young girls cannot survive, adn from which most of them drag psycologic sequels for their whole life.

It was not the best for a comparison.

Enjoy turbulences!!!

[Edited 2003-11-04 00:35:13]

User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

God intends for us to have things, but also he gave us free will which allows us to choose our own fate. What about those who do not believe in the judaic-God? Circumcision comes down to what the parents would like to do. And the parents are within their means to do it as they are the guardians of their children.

You still have not given sound reasoning as to why this practice should not be performed thus I'll dismiss your whims until a reason that is practical is provided.



Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 22, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2104 times:

Turbulence:
Great to see you back in the forums.  Smokin cool

Soap and water can do amazing things. This is 2003 A.D.
Do we need to hang on to such a barbaric practice?
Like brest implants, it should only be up to the person to decide if they want it done or not.
Stop the infant circumcision NOW!



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Aloha717200,
"The decision you make for your child" means that your child will have no free will. "God gave us a foreskin" but by cutting off an infant's, his God-given free will is quite denied, don't you think?

Again, I think those cut men who feel that they are butchered have more problems than just being circumcised, but, operating on and permanently changing the genitals of an infant who by definition cannot consent or complain seems to be a bit barbaric and unfair to the child.

Jaysit,
I do programming work for a research organization (nameless to protect them!) that actually did some of the studies you mention. The ones they did were done in Africa and compared tribes who circumcised to those who didn't. Although I work in their IT department, some of the studies were readable to laypersons and they have a critical flaw, which they also admitted. They could not tell whether it was the circumcision or any other things in the culture of the two tribes that contributed to the two rates. They tried to compare two tribes that were similar except for the circ/nocirc thing, but there is controversy on how well they did that or if it is even possible to do so. There is still controversy, although some studies of the inside of the foreskin show that that is about the only non-keratinized part of the penis and can conceivably allow HIV virus to spread. No foreskin, no non-keratinized point of entry. I would like to know whether or not HIV rates are higher amongst similar groups in, say, the US (mostly circumcised) as opposed to Canada (mostly not) since the cultures are similar in terms of health, hygiene, food, income, etc., etc.



I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2105 times:

The defense rests. This is like competing in the special olympics. Even though you might win, you're still retarded.


Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
25 Post contains images Superfly : DeltaMD11: Easy way out when you can't back yourself up.
26 Turbulence : Thank, you, Superfly, I have actually never been away, just not very active. And, about stopping infant circumcision... well, for me it is of no impor
27 Post contains images DeltaMD11 : I'm not going to keep harping on it when you've done nothign to refute my statements That's just a waste of time and bandwidth.
28 Superfly : Ok, so of uncut guys, what percentage gets infected and need to be hacked? Should we rip the tonsils out of every newborn because they might get infec
29 Post contains images Aloha717200 : To be quite honest with you, I dont think the baby will give a damn. I was circumcised, but I don't remember it, and I certainly don't resent it, so a
30 Toady : Has any ADULT male had himself circumcised for any (non medical) reason? I mean, what 18 + year-old has said "I will have my foreskin removed because
31 Dash8King : Why is it that the uncircumised males are really passionate about it and feel it should be band? Yet us who are don't really care either way, and aren
32 Vafi88 : Hey B757300 - if it is one's choice to do what he/she wants to their bodies, then why do you have a problem with abortion?
33 JAL777 : Hey B757300 - if it is one's choice to do what he/she wants to their bodies, then why do you have a problem with abortion? Because the baby doesn't ge
34 Toady : The issue for me is not so much about that tiny piece of skin, whether it's useful or not, whether its removal hurts or not or whether it will ever be
35 Superfly : Jal777: Because the baby doesn't get to decide. ...and the baby should decide if he wants his foreskin hacked off when HE turns 18 years old!
36 JAL777 : ...and the baby should decide if he wants his foreskin hacked off when HE turns 18 years old! I didn't say he shouldn't.
37 DeltaMD11 : I honestly don't see what the big deal is. It's a piece of skin that is not really useful. I don't resent the fact that I'm circumcised, and honestly
38 Airplay : Recent studies have shown that circumcised males have a lower risk of HIV infection than uncircumcised males. I can think of a few other things you ca
39 Aloha717200 : I agree 100% with Dash8King and DeltaMD11.....it really isn't that big of a deal. Really I dont understand the reason for trying to make this all look
40 Jaysit : "Let's get serious. People don't get HIV because they have a foreskin." No, but the skin underneath the foreskin doesnt have the same epidermal defens
41 Toady : Number 1...it hurts....number 2...they've lived 18 years with it and are used to it. Number 3....there's absolutely no reason to have it done. I didn'
42 Airplay : Jaysit, People get HIV by indulging in dangerous sexual practices. The statistics you are trying to build linking foreskins to HIV is truly irrelevent
43 Jaysit : And I thought that the clarification was inherent. Of course, the folks who were included in this study were not wearing rubbers. But when one variabl
44 FlyVirgin744 : The way I see it is, our parents play a great role in the people we are today. I tend to think, that if I were born into a different family, I would b
45 JetService : Toady, I'll answer your question: I think the parents should legally be allowed to have the baby cut, but in principle, it would be extremely selfish
46 Post contains images Fly727 : No one asked me nothing. I bet it hurt like hell; despite that I think it is more hygienic this way. Hard decision for the parents though. I have a fr
47 Covert : I'm happy I am circumcised, I don't think it is just some religious drivel, I think it is actually useful, at least I don't have to roll back when I h
48 Post contains images Bobrayner : I'm happy I am circumcised, I don't think it is just some religious drivel, I think it is actually useful, at least I don't have to roll back when I h
49 Airplay : I have a friend who had to have it done at the age of 23 because of a medical condition. There have also been cases of baby boys having their penis cu
50 Post contains images Kay : I'm Christian Greek Orthodox was cirumcised the day I was born.. don't know about the disadvantages but the advantages are cleaner and I always though
51 Matt D : If for no other reason, I'm glad that this happened because, as a white male, I can finally claim to be a victim of SOMETHING.
52 DeltaMD11 : Toady, In response to your question: I'd have it done to my children because I want them to be like me. It kind of relates to someone above who mentio
53 Shamrock1Heavy : I was born in Ireland as a Roman catholic and was NOT "snipped" I am now a recovering catholic and still have my foreskin...lol Look, we are born with
54 AA61hvy : What exactly is the purpose then?
55 Post contains images Aloha717200 : Good one Matt D.
56 Post contains images JOSEMEX : >>If for no other reason, I'm glad that this happened because, as a white male, I can finally claim to be a victim of SOMETHING.
57 Post contains images Superfly : I wonder if anyone has taken there parents to court over this.
58 Post contains images Yyz717 : It was done in my case for aesthetic reasons This argument always kills me. Aesthetic reasons?!?!?! Who says unhooded looks better than hooded? Anyway
59 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : I don't understand what the big deal is. I think you should let the boy decide when he turns 18. I'm sure that those of you who are preaching all this
60 JOSEMEX : Well, no one asked me anything when I was circumcised as a baby, but it's not really something that keeps me awake at night feeling victimized or anyt
61 Toady : DeltaMD11: Thank you for your reply. I wondered if a "cut" father's decision to have his son cut was in any way influenced by his wish for Junior to b
62 Alpha 1 : This mutilation talk is just another way to get lawyers rich by making up some grievous crime against someone. Another issue to creat a "victim". I do
63 An-225 : I personally don't know what the whole point of circumcision is. I don't think it's necessary. Proudly uncut - Alex.
64 Post contains images Fly727 : Josemex: LMAO !!!! Please advise me about that class-action. We'll be freakin' loaded ! Roll back? The foreskin is naturally equipped with a hole anyw
65 Post contains images JOSEMEX : >>Josemex: LMAO !!!! Please advise me about that class-action. We'll be freakin' loaded !
66 Yyz717 : I wondered if a "cut" father's decision to have his son cut was in any way influenced by his wish for Junior to be like Daddy - but I really didn't t
67 Post contains images Aloha717200 : So far, none of the pro-circumcision posters have addressed the issue of denying a child HIS OWN choice in the matter. I wonder why that is? I hope th
68 Post contains images Gc : " This is one thing I have never understood about Christianity. Some of them get all upset over tattoos and piercing because we need to treat our body
69 Yyz717 : I'm cut. I'm happy with it. My child will be cut too, and I'm sure he won't care either. What if your future wife disagrees, if & when you have a futu
70 Csavel : The he'll look like daddy thing. Hmm. If Jr. is hung like a porn star and daddy isn't well endowed, do we then give him a penis reduction so he'll loo
71 Sebolino : That's a stupid and barbarian custom, without any medical backing contrary to what I read here. The fact that it lowers the risk to get Aids is not an
72 Windshear : Here is an article from an Australian magazine... http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/03/1067708140106.html Interesting... I my self am circumcised
73 Post contains images Aloha717200 : If Jr. is hung like a porn star and daddy isn't well endowed, do we then give him a penis reduction so he'll look like dad? LOL! What you guys come up
74 Airways1 : Aloha717200, what Csavel came up with may have been funny, but he does have a serious point, so do you have a response to it?
75 Aloha717200 : No, not really. I dont find the comparison between circumcision and penis reduction surgery to be the same. I just feel, having lived all my life bein
76 Superfly : Screw the parents! They shouldn't have the right to hack up there son's dicks! When then child turns 18, he should decide then! I don't give a rats a$
77 Post contains images Aloha717200 : No need to shout superfly.
78 Post contains images Superfly : Aloha717200: Sorry man. It's a 'touchy' subject. It's not the parent's dick to decide.
79 Windshear : Superfly... We leave even the most important task of a child's moral settings and value placing up to the parents...That is even a more disasterous ch
80 Post contains images Superfly : Windshear: We leave even the most important task of a child's moral settings and value placing up to the parents... True, but when the child grows up
81 Windshear : Problem with the first 6 years of your life, is that if damage is done, it is not possible to heal fully, it will have the impact on the persons life
82 Superfly : Windshear: I am hostile towards religion on this subject because this barbaric procedure is commonly done for religious reasons. I know some people do
83 Post contains images Windshear : Yeah well...You are right and wrong at the same time!! Isn't that just amazing Did you read my earlier post? Ah well... I live in Scandinavia and here
84 Post contains images Superfly : Windshear: Yes I did read your earlier post. Once you started talking about what 'other men wanted done to there heads' during sex, I just skipped ove
85 Post contains images Windshear : I knew you would, you never let me down ol boy Boaz...
86 Post contains images Superfly : LOL ! Funny Mr. Shear.
87 Post contains images Windshear : :D LOL As always Mr.Fly... Nah I am almost always throwing stuff at other people in here when it comes to politics and so on... Seems nice to be able
88 Yyz717 : I'm with Superfly on this one. Circumcision is an unnecessary cosmetic procedure. If not banned outright (perhaps too extreme) , it should only be per
89 Superfly : ...and to add to Yyz717's comment, there are some botched circumciscions that result in mandatory sex change at birth. Scarry though ay? It's rare but
90 Post contains images Windshear : Watched Discovery did we eh? Saw that program too...That was scary...How can they think it could succeed...They only tried it once Superfly...Tho... B
91 Post contains links Bobrayner : Don't try this at home, boys... http://fnord.org/gummi/ Ouch!
92 Post contains images Windshear : OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
93 Dash8King : Like I said, I am circumsized and have no problems with that but I will let the wife decides how she wants our son. It makes no difference to me if he
94 Yyz717 : I like being uncut. It's nice to have it played with. Nature's sex toy.
95 Post contains images Mexicana757 : Bobrayner Next time put a bigger warning. I had to cross my legs when I saw that. Thats just gross. Hmm seems like you have a lot time on your hands t
96 LH423 : I never thought the day would come where I would see a guy not only cum on a.net but also shoot out a gummy worm! Anyway, my thoughts on the subject a
97 Post contains images Windshear : Just a reminder... You can't expect that things would be better if you hadn't been circumcised... You live where it is so normal to be circumcised, an
98 Seb146 : I don't want to be too involved with this BUT..... Windshear: It is different for un-cut because they can try to feel what it is like to be without. U
99 Post contains images Sebolino : I live in Scandinavia and here people are mostly anti circ. But we have problems even though we have both soap AND water You have problems with your d
100 Post contains images Windshear : Emmm ok... Sebolino... Good for you I guess Well I am happy with mine... Arg this discussion is stupid... Boaz...
101 Startvalve : GEEZ Guys quit playing with the thing and this will become less of an issue. As far as someone in the first few posts saying it presents a lower risk
102 Post contains images Windshear : You said it Startvalve...!! Boaz...
103 F.pier : HOW MANY EUROPEANS ARE CIRCUMCIZED? I AM EUROPEAN, I AM NOT CIRCUMCIZED.
104 Alessandro : Why mess with nature? I kept my foreskin, no ear-rings, piercing, tattoes ever on my body.
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