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Compassionate Conservative Solution To M/E Affairs  
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 969 times:


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Photo © Dor Erlich



I had an idea for George W Bush. With the on going mess in the occupied Palestinian Territory with the Israelis, Bush could hit a home run with achieving everlasting peace in that region.
This could shore up support with Christian fundamentalist, fiscal conservatives and liberal human rights activist and bleeding heart liberals.
Instead of waiting billions of $$$dollars$$$ in aid/loans to Israel, why not send billions of Holy Bibles instead?
It’s fiscally smart, spreads the word of God and we’re no longer feeding the military might of Israel. This would satisfy fiscal conservative, religious Christian fanatics and the bleeding heart liberals.
What do you all think?

I’ve read the Holy Bible and occasionally pick it up for reference. I think I missed the part about black helicopters, tanks, and nuclear weapons.

Look at how successful spreading the Holy Bible was in Africa, Central America and Southeast Asia.
Ooooooops, never mind! !! ! ! ! ! ! Embarrassment Embarrassment Embarrassment Embarrassment

Well, it’s just a thought.  Smile























Happy Holidays Ya’ll  Smile




[Edited 2003-12-01 10:51:05]


Bring back the Concorde
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 949 times:

whats the point of this thread? is it to provoke christains, jews or americans or israelis or arabs?


It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 933 times:

I shouldn't even be writing this, because this thread isn't worth dignifying with a response.

-Normal


User currently offlineN6376m From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 925 times:

Superfly shows us all his intelligence once again.

-76M


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 917 times:

Superfly, do us all a favor and move to a country that you truly appreciate, namely Cuba. It's obvious you don't like living here.

User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 900 times:

Superfly, I'm not sure if you're mocking the Bible, but if you are that's pretty hypocritical and low, especially coming from someone who claims to be tolerant!


Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 887 times:

Hey come on. We have all seen much worse threads than this in these forums.
Do you all under estimate the power of God or the Holy Bible?  Confused
I wasn't even starting a flame war. What is it that I said that has you all so upset?
This is just some food for thought.

Marco:
Please point out what I said that was so in-tolerant.

Alpha1:
This is about the conflict between Palestine and Israel.  Insane
Every time we disagree, the best thing you can come up with is "go to Cuba".  Insane
I love my country. I just don't love the amount of aid/loans we are sending to Israel.
Ok, ok I get it. We have the freedom to speak out against everyone except Israel.  Yeah sure


Any good Christian would understand whare I am coming from and not see this as 'mockery' or 'provoking' any angry feelings.


I'll respond to the first level-headed reply to my level-headed 'fair and balanced' idea to a troubled area.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 881 times:

Why is it EVERYONE elses problem to solve? Since day one in history, there has been fighting in the Middle East. There is no solution, because those directly involved would rather fight.

And Superfly, if you are waiting for a level-headed reply, then you should have tried taking a less ignorant approach than you did in your thread starter. It doesn't take a genius to see right through your game.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 878 times:

KROC:
Well I agree with what you are saying in regards to the Palestine/Israel conflict.

As far as "games", no one here is playing any games. I don't see why people are getting so uptight over this. The "ignorant" approach would be to continue to bomb and support the current mess thats going on now.
I see ignorance on both sides of the fence.
..and it's ignorant for anyone to continue to feed this sort sort of mayhem.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 866 times:

I think we outta back the hell out, as well as everyone else, and let them just 'fight it out'. That is about the only way they will learn......when the body count starts to seriously mount.

User currently offlineJessman From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1506 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 861 times:

The U.S. can't send any sort of religious material because it might be construed as an official endorsement of a particular religion.

However, I have given my time and money to support those that do bring the Holy Bible to all areas of the world. I have given my money to the Gideons, and several missionary groups in many parts of the world. I have also volunteered my time at various locales, from a church-run soup kitchen in my home area around Cincinnati, OH; to the Los Angeles Dream Center, a church that focuses on the inner city, the homeless, the drug addicts, and basically society's throw aways. Those that truly believe the Bible know that these peole have worth as much as anyone else. The mission of the Dream Center is to show that to the world
I also helped a couple of missionary ventures in Romania, in one I was part of a group that assisted a missionary in his preparation to go to Bosnia-Herzegovina. In another I helped with construction work on a building that will be used for Teen Challenge . This organization focuses on getting teens out of the terrible addictions to drugs and alcohol. They also have an incredible success rate of over 70%.
It's amazing when people come to the realization that God, who created the universe, loves them intimately and personally. It's great to learn that we can be servants of mankind, and friends of God.
Christ himself taught us to be a servant. He was obedient unto death. All of the missionaries I supported and knew were ready to be killed for their beliefs. They were not ready to kill for them. They knew that God gave people free will, and there is no way to force people to accept Christ's gift of salvation. One can not force another to believe that God would become flesh, live among us, and die a painful death to attone for our sins. We also can not force someone to believe that he raised from the dead and is alive today and in control.
We can not force anyone to believe anything, however we do believe that one day every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
We will all know someday. In the mean time Biblical Christianity is a belief of absolute peace. The early church members were often martyred, and now missionaries are still martyred to this day. We are not afraid to die for our beliefs. God is big enough to keep all of his promises. However a true Christian does not use force to persuade people to believe.


User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 844 times:

I think we outta back the hell out, as well as everyone else, and let them just 'fight it out'. That is about the only way they will learn......when the body count starts to seriously mount.

It hasn't mounted already?

I'd advocate sending somebody impartial to keep the two apart, and provide a watchful eye. Maybe even build a few walls, if that becomes necessary. It's hard to expect that any invention would be completely impartial, but at least it could be less partial than the current situation.

Then, it would be easier to help people back on their feet, rebuild infrastructure, &c &c without the imminent threat of being blown up or bulldozed.

I firmly (perhaps naïvely) believe that if Palestinians had reliable housing, communications, water supply, education &c then there would be fewer maniacs willing to blow themselves up; and with a firmer border (hopefully, overseen by somebody impartial) and fewer suicide bombings, the IDF would be less likely to kill non-combatants or just raze their houses & infrastructure.

If we were to ignore the problem, I fear that when the body count starts to seriously mount it would only reinforce extremist positions, and tighten the loop of reprisals & counterattacks.



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 839 times:

"It hasn't mounted already?

I'd advocate sending somebody impartial to keep the two apart, and provide a watchful eye. Maybe even build a few walls, if that becomes necessary. It's hard to expect that any invention would be completely impartial, but at least it could be less partial than the current situation.

Then, it would be easier to help people back on their feet, rebuild infrastructure, &c &c without the imminent threat of being blown up or bulldozed.

I firmly (perhaps naïvely) believe that if Palestinians had reliable housing, communications, water supply, education &c then there would be fewer maniacs willing to blow themselves up; and with a firmer border (hopefully, overseen by somebody impartial) and fewer suicide bombings, the IDF would be less likely to kill non-combatants or just raze their houses & infrastructure."

and yes, i dont been to be rude but you are naive. the arsb were given schools, had hosuing and communications, had an education and were in control of their autonomy. they have been offered 7 different arab states and have rejected them all.

under the mandate the arsbs were given the same chances as the jews but didnt take them. after 1948 those areas set aside for palestine were gobbled up by 2 arab states. after 1967 that land fell to the israelis.

the israelis didnt just stop people going to school, or stop them working, or deny them basic services nor have they done. in the early 1990s israel began tp pull out of the occupied areas, it pulled out fully. in 2000 it offered a state with east jersualem as its capital, economic aid etc etc and it was turned down.

and guess what? arab terrorism occured before 1948, after 1948, before 1967, after 1967, before oslo, after olso, before barak, after barak, before taba, after taba, before the roadmap, afetr the road map.

the political idelogy of these terrorists is the wholesale destruction of all jews living within the middle east. these people dont need to convert peple on the basis of israel accidentlly killing children or putting up road blaock. them tell them its their god given duty and to some young people if they are told its part of their faith they will accept it no matter what.

you could have a palestine, you could even have it larger than israel, hell you could even hand over the whole of jersulaem, scrap your army and give the arabs 100 trillion pounds and hamas, hezbollah, jihad, al-aqsa etc etc would still attack.

the reason why there is terrorism is because the arab leadership lead by yasser arafat has never clamped down on terrorists, it has been too sacred to take on hamas etc etc and would rather israel does it because it keeps them in power when they have experied their sell by date.

israels has had hawks and dovs as its leaders and every time terrorist attacks have occured.

it was agrued that if you pulled out military then the bombings would stop. they didnt.

it was agrued that if you gave east jersualem back, the bombings would stop, they didnt.

it was argued you needed to be nice to arafat and the bombings would stop, they didnt.

instead the palestinian people are living under a dictator who wont allow freedom of speech, destroys rivals and sides with terrorist groups because he is too scared to face them head on.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 830 times:

the israelis didnt just stop people going to school, or stop them working, or deny them basic services nor have they done.

This is difficult to reconcile with most reports of day-to-day life in Palestine.



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 826 times:

1)there is no palestine
2)arabs in the occpuied terroritories goto school
3)arabs in the occupied terroritories have job
4)arabs in the occupied terroritiries have hospitals.
5)even when life was eaiser for the arabs before the 3rd intafardia, terrorists still bombed israel.

you could have the arbs in the best schools, in the world, with the best healthcare,w ith all highly paid jobs and will 100 trillion dollars in the bank and it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference to the terrorists.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 825 times:

Jessman:
I have also volunteered my time at various locales, from a church-run soup kitchen in my home area around Cincinnati, OH; to the Los Angeles Dream Center, a church that focuses on the inner city, the homeless, the drug addicts, and basically society's throw aways.

Excellent post!
It's great to hear some of the good things that some Christians do. It takes a big man to go to these areas you have gone to do what you feel is right.

I was raised Catholic. I can recall at Catholic Churches volunteering for the holidays to help the needy back when I lived in the Chicago area. For all the good acts some religious people do, you hear a dozen more negative stories.

What I find amazing is that we send the Holy Bible to waring factions in Central America and Africa during the many civil wars that inflicted there regions. Why couldn't we support an Israeli style of loans/aid to those regions?





Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 819 times:

Go Canada:
Do you care to make a distiction between Arabs and "the Terrorist"?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 819 times:

Superfly, you miss the point. You cannot send the holy bible to islamic countries or to a jewish one, it would offend them.


It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 817 times:

Go Canada:
Weapons of mass destruction are more offensive.
Why weren't we so concerned about offending religious values when we send Holy Bibles to Africa, Central America and Southeast Asia?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 813 times:

"Weapons of mass destruction are more offensive.2

ive missed the point of that one.

"Why weren't we so concerned about offending religious values when we send Holy Bibles to Africa, Central America and Southeast Asia?"

1)what america may have done in the past doesnt mean to say its the right thing to do now.
2)america does not send holy bibles to non christain countries when they are in civil war any more.
3)most of central america and africa is christain, those populations in africa which have a mixed muslim-christain pop will find that the bibles are found in the christain areas.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 811 times:

Go Canada:
Ok, so is our current strategy with Palestine/Israel working?




Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 811 times:

there is no palestine

There's little I can do to argue with beliefs like this.



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineEZYcrew From Spain, joined Oct 2001, 460 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 808 times:

Well said Superfly!

And for the others, what about trying some 2nd degree there?


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 807 times:

Bobrayner:
As sick as it may sound, some people are enjoying there front row seats to this carnage.  Sad
There are people on both sides that have no interest in peace in this region.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 799 times:

"Ok, so is our current strategy with Palestine/Israel working?"

it is not down to the usa to sort out the mess. i dont feel that there is a clear stragery. i will say this though all attempts at peace have failed too. the only way this will end is with the replacement of yasser arafat and or the terrorist groups realising that the road to peace is not littered with bombs.

"There's little I can do to argue with beliefs like this."

oh gee im sorry, we historians or the area get a bit picky dont we? there never has been a palestine as a country, there was the ottoman empire, then a british mandate and then the land became israel, jordan and egypt. the term palestinian people isnt accurate either as it lumps together all non jews when in fact there are many different enthic groups living in israel and the occupied terroritories.

since a large number of the 'palestinians' were actually immigrants since the 1880s(along with the jews) its very hard to historically say that there is a seperate palestinian enthic race.
ill ask you this too, where should a palestinian state exist, in the areas where arabs are in the majority?



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
25 Go Canada! : furthermore bob rayner you never responded to my points.
26 Post contains images Superfly : Go Canada: i dont feel that there is a clear stragery. So just through more money at the problem? That isn't fiscaly smart. Our government is spending
27 Superfly : Go Canada: furthermore bob rayner you never responded to my points. He has already concluded that you are being irrational in this debate. Please re-
28 Go Canada! : "Go Canada: furthermore bob rayner you never responded to my points. He has already concluded that you are being irrational in this debate. Please re-
29 Go Canada! : and if we are really going to label non jews as palestinians then you and bob have missed a major point, the majority of palestinians have always live
30 Post contains images Superfly : Go Canada: you are implying that aid should be cut to israel. Horary! You've just won the prize! It took 29 replies for you to realize that. I really
31 Go Canada! : "When the land grab started after WWII, the interactions between the new Israelis and Palestinians was not friendly." no, but thats not israels fault,
32 JAL777 : What a waste of bandwith.
33 Dc10guy : Superfly, Your going to rot in hell !!! Are you some kind of pagan ??? I think all airliners.net members should stage a "prayer-a-thon" for your soul.
34 Post contains images Superfly : Go Canada: in fact a lot of the blame for relations can be laid at the door of the british.... Well said! I agree with you on that note. This topic is
35 Post contains images Superfly : Dc10guy: Does this mean I am not going to get any presents for Christmas?
36 Go Canada! : what is jal? i might not agree with superfly but i respect the fact that he has the guts to come on here and argue with me and at least try to back up
37 Go Canada! : "This topic is a big headache anyway you look at it." yes and labelling all non jews as palestinian just makes it worse because it fails to appreciate
38 Dc10guy : Superfly, I hate to break this to yah.... But I think your off the list.
39 Post contains images Superfly : Go Canada: Never mind that Jal777 kid. He's a part of that; "kick there a$$ and take there oil" crowd. It's a sickness imbeded in our society. im at a
40 Post contains images Superfly : Dc10guy: No way! I haven't shouted, cried or pouted all year! I haven't been naughty, I've been nice. I've been good for Godness sake. Santa Clause i
41 Dc10guy : Well you better watch out.....and I'm telling you why.
42 Go Canada! : yes and no, what gives me a headache is people who think that the arabs were just turfed off their land and driven away by israeli tanks.what gives me
43 Go Canada! : dont forget he sees you when your sleeping, he knows when your awake, he knows if you have been bad or good so be good for goodness sake. you better w
44 Superfly : Go Canada: It's true when ever a society/nation feels they are under attack, they tend to go for facist elements. The world could do without the Arafa
45 Post contains images Superfly : Bobrayner, Go Canada, DC10guy, KROC, Jessman and EZYcrew: Thanks for your input and not letting this volatile subject get completely out of hand.
46 Post contains images Alpha 1 : Thanks for your input and not letting this volatile subject get completely out of hand. So you admit you posted it as nothing but pure, unadulterated
47 Go Canada! : seems to be alpha that it was an admission on superflys part and that your right, furterhmore no one has argued aganist what i have sadi, simply becau
48 Post contains images Superfly : Alpha1: So you admit you posted it as nothing but pure, unadulterated flame bait? Not at all Alpha1. Are you saying that any post about the Middle Eas
49 Go Canada! : superfly, you cant prove what im saying is wrong because its historicaly accurate.the verdict is not out, its in and has been in for many a year. unti
50 Bruno : Go canada Is Clinton and Albright a final authority on this issue?
51 Superfly : Go canada: until islamic jihad, hamas and their friends are defeated there will be no peace in the middle east. Turmoil in the Middle-East didn't star
52 Covert : I'm suprised I missed this thread. I only read like the first 5 replies, and got a chuckle out of noticing that people have typed page long replies to
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