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Toronto Reporter Rips ROC  
User currently offlineLHMark From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1195 times:

Toronto Globe and Mail reporter Jan Wong spent two and a half days in Rochester, wich will soon be linked to Toronto via fast ferry. Her scathing (and, I find, pretty condescending) article has ROC's mayor and Chamber of Commerce really pissed off.

Ferry bad place
The good news is that Torontonians are getting an exciting new car ferry. The bad news is it's going to Rochester

By JAN WONG (Toronto Globe and Mail)
Saturday, November 29, 2003 - Page M1

ROCHESTER, N.Y. -- People in this beleaguered city on the south shore of Lake Ontario are pretty excited about a new Toronto-Rochester car ferry promised for May. For their part, people in Toronto have barely noticed. That's all to the good because there are several important reasons why Torontonians wouldn't ever want to come here.

Take Rochester's homicide rate, at triple the U.S. average. The car-theft rate is 2.6 times the U.S. average. Robbery is nearly triple the national rate. Then there's the culinary treasure known -- this is true -- as the Garbage Plate.

For $6 (U.S.), you get home fries and cold macaroni salad, topped with a cheeseburger or hot dog, all drowned in ground meat, hot sauce, chopped raw onions and Day-Glo orange grease. It takes a tattooed cook 14 seconds to assemble. It looks unpicturesque.

"That's why they call it the Garbage Plate," says Mayor William A. Johnson Jr., 61, who is no fan.

Don't sample it at Nick Tahou Hots (slogan: "Home of the Garbage Plate''). At this fluorescent-and-Formica joint, the cheeseburger is as dry as a cracker and the grease pools at the bottom of the paper plate.

"It's supposed to be greasy," says the skinny cashier, who appears to eat elsewhere.

Nick's used to be open all night until it hosted one too many shootouts. Located on West Main Street, it's a quick but perilous walk from the mayor's office, past a homeless shelter, shuttered businesses and a high school for troubled youths.

"You walked there?" Mr. Johnson says. "I wouldn't walk there. Don't go there again. If you had made a wrong turn, you would have been in no man's land." He pulls out sheets of statistics. Rochester's homicide rate, at 17.4 per 100,000, is double New York City's.

In 2001, Rochester had 39 homicides, mostly execution-style hits.

"Only a couple of times a year, a purely innocent person gets shot," the mayor says.

He dreamed up the ferry idea in 1995, a year after he took office. He thought tourism might halt the city's decline. Conjuring up a vision of Torontonians streaming across Lake Ontario, he persuaded New York state to kick in $14-million toward a ferry service.

Currently, the $42.5-million (U.S.) high-speed catamaran is out of dry dock in Perth, Australia. At the Rochester harbour, a 30-minute drive from downtown, work crews are rushing to convert an abandoned warehouse into a terminal.

But neither side has received approval from customs and immigration authorities. And construction hasn't even begun in Toronto. "I'm in the dark as to exactly what kind of structure they're talking about," says Mr. Johnson, who has heard rumours that Toronto's terminal might be a concrete pad covered by a tent.

Henry Pankratz, Toronto Port Authority chairman, didn't return calls. Nor did Dominick DeLucia or Howard Thomas, executives at the ferry company, Canadian American Transportation Systems.

"The last I heard they wanted somebody else to put in money," says Joe Pantalone, a Toronto city councillor who chairs the municipal waterfront group.

In a sign of how few tourists come to Rochester, rooms at Microtel Inn & Suites cost $39.95.

"I get the stupidest calls from the stupidest people," the desk clerk complained to a room attendant the other morning. "Like, 'How big are your rooms?' " In fact, Microtel has queen beds and full baths, and includes continental breakfast, free local calls, cable TV and the morning paper.

Rochester would be a bargain, except that Air Canada charges nearly $900 round-trip for a 25-minute flight. (Advance bookings are $387, with a $150 penalty for any change.) By car, the trip via Buffalo takes about 3½ hours, plus gas and tolls. In contrast, the thrice-daily ferry will cost $40 (U.S.) per car, plus $20 per passenger, or $28 for walk-ons. Shore to shore, the trip takes 2½ hours, an estimate that doesn't include customs and immigration checks.

But such comparisons miss the point, according to Carol Miller, a retired hospital worker (and my cousin-in-law), who has lived in Rochester her whole life. "What do they expect people from Toronto to do when they come here? There is so nothing here."

Hers is a typical Rochesterian psyche, less civic boosterism than civic dumpsterism. Indeed, last June a number of local organizations offered a "Reality Tour" of the city's poorest neighbourhoods.

Ms. Miller offers her own blightseeing tour. At the ferry docks, she points out abandoned buildings. "The beach is polluted," she says over the roar of front-loaders. Later, she drives her family van over potholed streets to the downtown core. Here, on the Genesee River, is Rochester's star attraction: a 30-metre waterfall.

High Falls is no Niagara Falls, but it did power Rochester's first flour mills. On this sunny November day, the footbridge is deserted. "I hate to tell you this, but it's like this in the summer, too," Ms. Miller says. "To be honest, I wouldn't come here day or night alone."

Downtown, all-day parking is $3. A nearby heritage building is vacant, with smashed windows and torn plastic sheeting. Traffic is so sparse it's unnecessary to look left or right when crossing the street. But pretensions to a bygone era remain: no-left-turn signs on every downtown corner.

Two hundred years ago, High Falls made Rochester the largest flour-milling city in the world. A hundred years ago, George Eastman invented the 10-cent flexible film roll and the $1 Brownie camera here. His 50-room mansion, which now houses a museum of photography, is the city's only five-star attraction. In 1932, at the age of 77, the lifelong bachelor declared his life's work done and shot himself in an upstairs bedroom.

Rochester's decline can be traced to governor Thomas E. Dewey. In 1948, Rochester voted against him when he ran for president, ensuring he lost the state -- and the White House. Two years later, Mr. Dewey saw to it that Interstate 90 bypassed Rochester on its way from Buffalo to Syracuse.

Today, digital technology has slashed employment at Eastman Kodak Co. to 21,000 from a high of 60,000 in 1982. Two other main employers, Xerox Corp. and Bausch & Lomb Inc., have also cut jobs. In the past decade, Rochester's population has shrunk 6.3 per cent to 220,000 (Greater Rochester has about a million) and taxable city property values have plunged 15.3 per cent. It now ranks 173rd among the nation's 200 largest metropolitan areas in terms of job creation and economic performance.

At the end of a depressing tour, Ms. Miller is pressed for a genuine Rochester attraction. She suggests Wegmans, a supermarket. Don't laugh. "It's the store where I take my relatives and out-of-town visitors," Neil Stern, a food-industry analyst, told The New York Times.

Cher went there this summer. Wearing dark glasses and a cowboy hat, she signed autographs and cooed to the manager, Bill Congdon, "I'd love for you to build one of these stores in Malibu where I live."

At 130,000 square feet, the Pittsford Plaza Wegmans offers a caviar bar, a kosher deli that authentically boils the bagels before baking, and a less authentic Chinese buffet. The fish department cooks to order, free. The flower department has a five-day guarantee on roses. You can hook your latte cup onto your shopping cart. Your toddler can "drive" a red plastic car also hooked, yes, to your shopping cart.

Aside from gargantuan restaurant portions -- the Scotch N Sirloin offers 48-ounce slabs of prime rib, Nick Tahou Hots sells 42-ounce drinks -- everything in Rochester seems to be disappearing. Downtown's revolving restaurant has closed. The nightly laser show at High Falls has been mostly discontinued. Even the Red Wings baseball team had five consecutive losing seasons, including, in 2002, its worst in 23 years.

"Then they moved the team to Ottawa, and immediately it got better," says Mr. Johnson, who himself was trounced this month in a race for county manager.

Not surprisingly, Rochesterians prefer to look to the past. Visitors are told to go to Mount Hope Cemetery, where Frederick Douglass, the slavery abolitionist, and Susan B. Anthony, the women's suffrage leader, are buried. Her home is another attraction, but everyone from cab drivers to Ms. Miller to the mayor warned against venturing into the neighbourhood (just past Nick Tahou Hots).

"Oh, we have no problem here," Joanne Middleton, the docent, insisted to the one and only visitor of the day. "The neighbourhood is fine."

personally, I think everybody knows that Rochester is not a vacation destination on par with ANY large city. Nevertheless, Wong arrogantly holds our 250,000-strong burg up to the cosmopolitan spotlight of Toronto. SInce this column is obviously supposed to be a somewhat light-hearted feature piece, Wong would be do well to read some Dave Barry, who has managed to master the fine art of poking fun at people, places, and things without hamhandedly making those close to the story feel like shit.

Of course, Barry is a genius. Wong doesn't appear to be that deep a thinker.



"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1184 times:

Hey, 39 homicides in 2001? Shit, we have well eclipsed that number and then some this year, and we still have almost a full month to go!

As for Toronto Reporter piling on, she can kiss ROC's collective ass. It must be nice to judge a mid-sized city when you are in a large and good city. As much as I bag on Crapchester, it has its good points and its bad points. So what? So does every city. If Toronto doesn't care about the Ferry, I don't blame them, BUT where else are they going to hook up with via the Ferry? Buffalo. Uhm no, Buffalo sucks worse that Crapchester. Watertown? HAHAHAHAHA. It does however give Crapchestarians a somewhat cheaper and easier and quicker alternative to getting to Toronto to enjoy the city. If they do not want our tourist green. No problem, but I'm willing to bet that Jan Wong doesn't speak for everyone across the lake. Well done biatch. A piece only meant to slam a city, and offer nothing of substance. A certain A.net member (Roy) will be proud.


User currently offlineCanyonBlue From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1182 times:

I know that my hometown has problems, god knows I've seen 'em. But it is my HOME. Did this B!tch even bother to talk to any more of us locals? Perhaps if she delved a little deeper she might have found out we are very nice folk. She makes it sound like were robbing and shooting everyone. (Ok, not EVERYONE  Smile/happy/getting dizzy)

So were not a vacation destination. Did she even see Letchworth State Park, The Finger Lakes, or more of the Lake Ontario coastline?

Did she dine at The Strathallen, Richardson's Canal House or The Daisy Flower Mill? (Very fine dining establishments)

Did she ever visit the Lilac Festival, clothesline Arts Festival or our 60+ festivals year round?

No. She did a weekend trip. Whoopee. You can't learn or experience much in 48 hours.



User currently offlineLHMark From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1173 times:

Hey, if she wants to fly B6, she'll HAVE to come here!


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineCanyonBlue From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1170 times:

After her article, I doubt she'd even get past short term parking  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1169 times:

Here's the rebuttal article in today's newspaper. The Mayor of ROC and many residents took offense (as they should have). YYZ & ROC are neighbours....it's too bad that Jan Wong dumped on ROC.

http://www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20031202/ROCH02//?query=Rochester+mayor+slams

Rochester mayor slams article in Globe

Story about city called a 'hatchet job' written by 'Rush Limbaugh in drag'

By JONATHAN FOWLIE
Tuesday, December 2, 2003 - Page A14

The Mayor of Rochester, N.Y., lashed out yesterday at a Globe and Mail article, calling it a "hatchet job" that grossly misrepresents his city.

"I'm very upset with the continuing onslaught from Toronto media who turn out not to be real journalists," Mayor William Johnson Jr. said at a news conference yesterday afternoon at Rochester's city hall.

Mr. Johnson called the news conference because he was upset at negative coverage in Canada of the proposed ferry between Toronto and Rochester, and specifically at the article with the headline Ferry Bad Place, which ran in Saturday's Globe and Mail.

"[Jan] Wong saw only what she wanted to see, and not what actually exists, nor what is planned for the future," Mr. Johnson said in an official response to the piece.

"She did her readers a grave disservice and her profession a dishonour," he said, calling her "Rush Limbaugh in drag."

In an interview last night, the mayor said he was upset because Ms. Wong selectively chose run-down or troubled elements of the city of about one million people and neglected to espouse its high points. "I think she had a pretty fixed vision of what she wanted to convey." There's nothing about this story that was fair."

Ms. Wong, who was overwhelmed with calls from the Rochester news media yesterday, said she did not set out to do a hatchet job and that she went to most major attractions before writing the piece. What resulted, she said, was a true reflection of the city on the south shores of Lake Ontario. "If you look at the numbers, they speak for themselves. The economy, the population's shrinking, the crime rate, the layoffs at Kodak, they speak for themselves. It's a city in distress."

In her article, Ms. Wong wrote that Rochester's homicide rate is triple the U.S. average and that it's car-theft rate is 2.6 times the U.S. average. She pointed out that the city is ranked 173rd among America's 200 largest metropolitan areas in job creation and economic performance. She quoted Mr. Johnson as warning her against walking through certain areas of town. "I wouldn't walk there. Don't go there again," she quoted him as saying. "If you had made a wrong turn, you would have been in no man's land."

Mr. Johnson said those comments were taken out of context. "In her account, she makes me seem disparaging (and fearful) of my own city," he wrote. "She knows that is an absolute lie."

The piece not only caught the eye of Mr. Johnson, who did not see it until yesterday morning, but of many Globe and Mail readers.

"I don't know where this woman gets off," said Mary Breese-Sykela, who lives south of Rochester and spends about six months each year in Ontario. "I thought it was very short-sighted. Rochester has some very wonderful spots. People would have a great time here."

Molly Clifford, who lives in Rochester, sent Ms. Wong an alternative itinerary and offered to take her on a proper tour of the city. She also made a direct appeal to others.

"Please, Torontonians, ferry or no ferry, come see for yourselves -- do not let Ms. Wong be your only guide to Rochester."

Ms. Wong was unapologetic about the piece last night, saying people need to look at what's really at issue.

"The mayor is hoping he will save his city with this ferry. I think that's the typical reaction," she said of his public response. "Whenever you say the emperor has no clothes, then everyone gets all hysterical. But does the emperor have clothes or not? That's what I think people should be saying. Is it true or not?"




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAA61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1159 times:

I'm suprised they didn't mention the amount of homosexuals in ROC.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineLHMark From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1156 times:

That's true! We're an east-coast gay Mecca! Just ask KROC. And we're a pretty tolerant city, too. YYZ homosexuals, rejoice!


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineAA61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1145 times:

KROC always speaks highly of the gay clubs in ROC.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineCanyonBlue From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1113 times:

Fellow Toronto Queens! We'll show you the City!

Signed,

KROC and LHMark


Couldn't resist  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1111 times:

KROC always speaks highly of the gay clubs in ROC.

You were asking about them?


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13702 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1090 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The paper needs to print a retraction under the heading "We Were Wong."  Big thumbs up


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1069 times:

Well, it's a bit unfortunate that it had to come to the people of Rochester this way. But that's what the Toronto press is all about. Arrogant and never short on half-truths.

And that was in the Globe & Mail, which is not the worst Torontonian newspaper.

Imagine if, like Montreal for instance, you have to endure that kind of journalism all the time.

Now it gives you a sense why so many here hate the Toronto newspapers.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1051 times:

Well, it's a bit unfortunate that it had to come to the people of Rochester this way. But that's what the Toronto press is all about. Arrogant and never short on half-truths.


Don't generalize.

This was a one-off article that was off-base by an otherwise well-respected columnist. Her assessment of ROC was too negative and now she's paying the price in terms of outrage by ROC'ers and YYZ'ers alike.

There is no general anti-ROC or anti-anywhere bias in the national Cdn media. If Quebecers can't handle home-truths or legitimate criticisms, that's their problem.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1047 times:

If Quebecers can't handle home-truths or legitimate criticisms, that's their problem.

See what I mean. Half-truths and arrogance become home-truths and legitimate criticisms if there from Toronto. Why didn't I think of that  Insane

Go tell that to the people of Rochester.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1045 times:

Half-truths and arrogance become home-truths and legitimate criticisms if there from Toronto.

Your problem is that any criticism of Quebec (however legitimate) is completely dismissed if it comes from Toronto. That is a mistake. It is possible that some criticism of Quebec from outside IS INDEED legitimate. Not all perhaps, but some.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1045 times:

Your problem is that any criticism of Quebec (however legitimate) is completely dismissed if it comes from Toronto. That is a mistake. It is possible that some criticism of Quebec from outside IS INDEED legitimate. Not all perhaps, but some.

As long as this criticism is done with objectivity and an in-depth knowledge of the situation, I agree.

But, believe me, there's no one on a.net that understands the frustration of the people of Rochester more than I do. The medicine they got, we get all the time.

[Edited 2003-12-03 04:23:13]


Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1031 times:

Ummmm, wow....I think I am in love. I wonder if Jan Wong is single. Someone who shares a bitter hatred towards Crapchester more than me. In fact, I had no idea that Craptown's murder rate was so high.

I really think this could be the quote of the year:
"Only a couple of times a year, a purely innocent person gets shot," the mayor says.

No. She did a weekend trip. Whoopee. You can't learn or experience much in 48 hours.

Please. I get bored of Rochester by the time I collect my bags at the baggage claim.

At least she mentioned the garbage plate.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1030 times:

Ummmm, wow....I think I am in love. I wonder if Jan Wong is single.

Nope...married with 2 kids. She's a very attractive early-40's chick.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4999 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1019 times:

Lets criticize Toronto.. how about that.

Where do I start... boring, plain, American, ego-centric.. etc etc.

Everything from Toronto in the media is justified, from Don Cherry, to Hockey Night in Canada, to reporters who have never been to Montreal who hear things from "friends".

Toronto shoud look at itself first, and realize how terribly boring the city actually is. Then it can look out at other cities with a critical eye.

Mark


User currently offlineTNboy From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 1131 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1000 times:

I can tell you that the ferry is looking damn good at the Perth shipyards - well, south of Perth actually.

The problem with the unlovely Jan Wong is that she obviously doesn't have the capacity to understand that Crapchester is home to some of the nicest people in North America, and they make visitors feel welcomed. It also has a river, a waterfall, ummm, err, oh yeah, an old bridge, a Hyatt and a Kodak place, and not forgetting... umm, errr, got it - the Rotunda in the Park!! Bet she missed that! Well, so did I, because it's damn hard to find, but that's beside the point. It's there somewhere. And Crapchester was picked from every city in the whole, entire world to be sister city to Rennes in France (over the screams of anguish from KROC, but whatever.)
Stay at home Jan Wong, and let real people enjoy Crapchester.
Cheers,
Bill



"...every aircraft is subtly different.."
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 997 times:

I didn't want to say anything, but has Toronto contributed anything to world Culture since, "Strange Brew" came out?


Do they still have those god-awful taxicab yellow police cars?



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 992 times:

Toronto shoud look at itself first, and realize how terribly boring the city actually is. Then it can look out at other cities with a critical eye.

A teenage boy who still lives with Mom & Dad in Montreal is complaining that Toronto is boring? Have you even been here? Whatever.  Insane

Let's not project Jan Wong's article onto all Torontonians. She is just one person of about 4M.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAWspicious From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 991 times:

"I didn't want to say anything, but has Toronto contributed anything to world Culture since, "Strange Brew" came out?

Yup. A benefit event headlined by the Rolling Stones... Dubbed SARSstock.

"Do they still have those god-awful taxicab yellow police cars?"

Nope. They're mostly white. Some with red stripes; Some with blue.





User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 988 times:

Listen, lay off Don Cherry! A Canadian treasure with Crapchester roots. Nuff said.

AA61hvy - Predictable

Jcs - Predicatble

I personal gave TNBoy a guided tour of Crapchester (That was a busy half hour too  Big grin ) and he didn't feel the need to go back to Oz and flame the city in an article. At least people are responsing back on both sides of the lake.

Oh, and Toronto Shemales. If you need a place to go to relax, chill out, and do 'whatever'.....Canyon Blue's house is the perfect spot apparently.


25 Aa61hvy : "If you need a place to go to relax, chill out, and do 'whatever'" I'm on my way Signed, JCS17
26 AlekToronto : FLYYUL! you sure have something against Toronto eh? such venom... You are young..you will learn.. I happen to love both Toronto and Montreal...come to
27 LHMark : However I think the journalists mistake in this case was that she obviously didn't have the skill to write the piece as a satire..taking the interesti
28 AlekToronto : sorry dude..wasn't poaching your line...i just read the actual article and was responding to a later posting. no harm done i hope? love Barry as well.
29 LHMark : I was just kidding with you, AlekToronto. Always nice to meet a fan of my favorite writer!
30 Post contains images SKYSERVICE_330 : Yyz717, You forgot, we aren't allowed to criticize Quebec because they are "distinct" and "unique." Besides, were just a bunch of boring, anglophones
31 Post contains images FLYYUL : AlekToronto, I was exagerating to prove a point. Toronto is a fine city (not as fun as Montreal though )! I come to visit 5-10 times a year, + meet wi
32 Post contains images LHMark : Good points, FLYYUL. After all, New York and L.A. are the centers of Canadian culture.
33 Post contains links Airplay : Let's not project Jan Wong's article onto all Torontonians. She is just one person of about 4M. And...when I comment you put all Winnipeggers in the s
34 Post contains images AlekToronto : of course Toronto is the centre of the universe... seriously..Toronto is where the money is..and the media follows the money. I suggest that you don't
35 Post contains images FLYYUL : AlekToronto, I have a lot of respect for you, so dont take the following too seriously.. but im voicing my opinion "seriously..Toronto is where the mo
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