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No Licenses For Illegals Part II  
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 46
Posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1368 times:

Here we go again. Once again, a group of self-righteous, entitlement assholes congregate to demand, in so many words, that we open our borders as a free for all.

My comments are in bold italics.

You know what, I have to say that maybe it's time our leaders (calling Mr Bush) to send an ultimatum to Vicente Fox saying that this shit has got to stop. Plan of action should range anywhere from threatining to cut Mexico off from NAFTA to dropping a few bombs on Mexico City to send a little message if Mexico doesn't stop exporting its problems to the US.


I'm dead serious.

http://www.sgvtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,205~12220~1810292,00.html


Immigrants march against license repeal

Day laborers, college students and other immigrant advocates began a four-day, 45-mile march through the San Gabriel Valley to Los Angeles on Thursday, spurred by the repeal of a bill that granted driver licenses to undocumented immigrants.

The march, organized late last month when the bill's repeal seemed certain, cast driver licenses as part of a symbolic struggle for the equal status of legal and illegal immigrants in the United States -- a struggle marchers said also requires the right to a "living wage,'' affordable health care and improved education. [This is an oxymoron. Illegal immigrants are NOT equal to citizens or even legal immigrants. Yes, they are a lower form, and I'm not afraid to say it. And since when is driving a "life right"? and who do they expect to foot the bill for this so-called 'living wage'?]

Jose Calderon, a Pitzer College professor involved with the Latino Roundtable and Pomona's day labor center, organized a good portion of the march and led a rally and press conference of more than 100 people before it began.

The repeal of the driver license bill and parts of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's economic platform are "part of a concerted attack on the poor, the elderly, and especially on immigrants,'' Calderon said. "Whenever there are tough times, people begin to blame immigrants.'' [No it's not an issue of looking for a scapegoat. It's an issue of maintaining our National sovereignty and NOT rewarding those who break our laws.]

Critics of the driver license bill, overwhelmingly opposed by California voters, [Now why do you suppose we all supported it?] say it could ease the ability of terrorists and identity thieves to obtain identification, and that people in the United States illegally should not be given documents that legitimize their status. You think?

But marchers Thursday believed that denying a driver license to immigrants - they make no distinction between legal and illegal immigrants - denies them a basic human right. Bullshit. Next they'll be saying that their religion entitles them to have as many kids as they want, and us 'evil gavachos' (and other taxpayers) should have a legal and moral obligation to lend their fellow man a helping hand.

"Mr. Schwarzenegger, our condition as immigrants does not make us criminals,'' If you are an illegal immigrant, then yes it does said the Rev. Luis Angel Nieto.

Day laborer Hernando Flores said immigrants simply want to work and provide for themselves and their families.Fine. Come here legally. And don't ask me to foot your bill.

"We are not terrorists,'' he said. "We are here to contribute to this country.'' Right. And The folks that torched all of those SUV's in West Covina a few months ago are just trying to save the planet.

After a brief rally in Claremont, which doubled as a news conference, more than 100 marchers began walking west, many carrying banners and signs, some in English and some in Spanish.

Since many marchers are undocumented day laborers who cannot afford extended time away from work That's their problem. Not mine., organizers expected that many people would drop off periodically, while others would join.

By afternoon, as the group circled a Vons parking lot in Glendora to show solidarity with striking workers, the march had dwindled to about 40 people.

"Hey hey, ho ho, corporate greed has got to go,' This is an apples-to-oranges comparison, and two separate issues. Let's stick to the one at hand. they chanted.

The marchers believe immigrants, both legal and illegal, are the backbone of America, performing much of the labor that keeps the country running. Legal immigrants, sure....but if you are so "honorable", then why do you feel the need to break the law?

In fact, Latino activist Nativo Lopez and other Latino groups are calling for a general strike Dec. 12, an attempt to flex the economic muscle of immigrants to protest the repeal of the driver license bill. Right. This is why San Diego is a World Class, city, dubbed "Americas Finest City" (and perhaps rightly so) while the next city, just south of the border is a Third World Cesspool. Kinda blows a big hole in that argument, doesn't it?

Immigrants are being encouraged by activists to stay home from work and keep their children home from school on that day. Anyone smell a rat here? These are people who claim that the world will end without them, yet here they are inciting these "honest, honorable, and decicated workers to play hookey Organizers hope that California voters will recognize the contributions of immigrants as a result of their daylong absence. If that means I can drive down harbor Blvd in naheim and not worry about being hit by some illegal driving with no license and no insurance, then you bet I will take notice to that.

The marchers planned to begin again at 8 a.m. today, and arrive at Our Lady of Guadalupe Church in El Monte by nightfall. On Saturday they will stop at St. Stephen's Church in Monterey Park.

The march will end Sunday at the Federal Building at 312 N. Spring St. in downtown Los Angeles, where a rally will be held at 2:30 p.m.






50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1360 times:

If they can walk 45 miles, why do they need a car?


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1359 times:

That's a damn good question L-188! I'd like to know that too!

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1355 times:

And in only four days!

You figure they had to sleep for a couple, so you just know that number is inflated.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineProsimtec From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1351 times:

This looks like a good opportunity to deport some illegals. Hope there are lots of Immigration Officers there to check for green cards.





User currently offlineGamps From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 469 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1345 times:

While I am against giving license to illegals, they do have a compelling argument. MattD I would like to know your thoughts on it.

Their main argument is: Without a license we can't have insurance. Thus resulting in illegal immigrants driving without insurance and during the accident other party has to go through all the loops to get insurance money for damage, healthcare. The almost daily head-on collisions near Gilroy, Halfmoon Bay, Sacremento almost always invovles illegal immigrants driving without insurance.

Ofcourse insurance companies are already milking us for collision with "non-insured driver"

May be compromise is giving them some sort of ID using which they can get drivers insurance? Again, where to stop? Next demand may be healthcare etc.

JMO.


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1338 times:

This should be a black-and-white, open-and-shut case:

Come here legally, we'll work with you.

Come here ILlegally, you get nothing.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1336 times:

Without a license we can't have insurance. Thus resulting in illegal immigrants driving without insurance


Without a license they aren't supposed to be driving the FIRST place!

What they hell do they need car insurance for if they are supposed to be taking the bus.


Those illegals that are causing the accidents deserve jail time and deportation, let their prison wages pay for the plane ticket south.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1335 times:

Their main argument is: Without a license we can't have insurance. Thus resulting in illegal immigrants driving without insurance and during the accident other party has to go through all the loops to get insurance money for damage, healthcare.

Where is the argument??? They cannot get a license because they are in this country ILLEGALLY. That means they have no business here, no buisness driving or whatever. When they are here legally, by all means let them get a license, and insurance etc.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2501 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1331 times:

The key word is "illegal." Want a license, do it the legal way.......

They should not be in the country, so they don't need licenses......so they don't need insurance.

Rgds,

Greg



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineGamps From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 469 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1324 times:

Agreed, they have no business being here. But been on I-5 of late? Or Halfmoon Bay or heck even the Napa Valley Vineyards? Almost 3 out of 4 farm workers are illegals according to surveys. So let us not pretend that these guys don't exist.

So these guys are here already and make sure we get our oranges, wine etc - it is a fact and fact is also that they ARE driving whether we like it or not. So question really is do you want them driving without insurance or with insurance?

Again, I am saying all this only for argument sake. I think issuing DL will be a bad precedent.

JMO.


User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1309 times:

You know what, I have to say that maybe it's time our leaders (calling Mr Bush) to send an ultimatum to Vicente Fox saying that this shit has got to stop. Plan of action should range anywhere from threatining to cut Mexico off from NAFTA to dropping a few bombs on Mexico City to send a little message if Mexico doesn't stop exporting its problems to the US.

Once again, we sure are glad you're not a foreign diplomat !!!

I'm sure you'd looooove to have us blocked off and unable to have any contact with the US, but it's just not gonna happen, you can whine and whine and whine from here to eternity, but the integration of the two countries is going to increase as time passes, you need only see demographic statistics to see that there's no turning back.

I'll say this and say it again, there is -dependency- on both sides of the border, wether you admit it (or even fathom it) or not you need us, and we need you. You even wondered why when the peso crashed in 94, Bill Clinton came rushing to our aid? If there would have been a total collapse of the mexican economy it would have been bad for us and for, you do -not- want to have a country in shambles next door, it's in the US's best interest for us. to be economically stable, that helps solve the problem of illegal immigration cause it eliminates part of the need for it.

This is why San Diego is a World Class, city, dubbed "Americas Finest City" (and perhaps rightly so) while the next city, just south of the border is a Third World Cesspool. Kinda blows a big hole in that argument, doesn't it?

Wow, do you have an economics major?? you've studied up on world history and economic development?? yeah I thought so. I'd love to hear your in-depth analisis on the subject of the interaction between the world class city and the third world cesspool !!.. you seem to be oblivious to the raison d'etre of the "developing" world and how we all work together, globalisation makes us more dependent on each other and unfortunatley it also shares problems.




User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1300 times:

Their main argument is: Without a license we can't have insurance.

Why not do what they do in Switzerland? When you buy your car, the seller keeps his licence plates. It is your responsibility to put plates on the car, and in order to get the plates, you must present a proof of insurance certificate and the car's grey card (sort of a registration/proof of ownership). You cannot get plates without insurance.

Once you have the plates, and you stop paying the insurance premiums, the insurance company calls the authorities and they come to your home and confiscate the plates, to be returned once you provide proof of insurance again.

It works pretty well here.

Charles


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1295 times:

What the hell are these hyperlinks that keep popping up in my post?

Charles


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1287 times:

SR117. You are missing the point. Nobody is trying to keep Mexicans out, or block you off or whatever. If you are Mexican and in this country LEGALLY...Welcome. Enjoy everything this country has to offer. If you are here ILLEGALLY, then you have no business crying about not being able to get drivers licenses, and whatever, and you certainly have no right to get free medical care at the expense of John Q. Taxpayer. You need to open your eyes and see this isn't about Mexicans. It's about being in this country 'legally' and 'illegally'. There is a right and wrong there.

User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1798 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1286 times:

Don't waste your time SR117.......this is a discussion started by Matt D, you know it is nothing more than a post with the sole intention to offend and be a flamebait, you know it violates more than one forum rules, but you know it will not matter because of his close relationship with some moderators on this forums, you know these moderators will not be impartial and uphold the respect for the forum rules and guidelines, you know they will turn a blind eye to this situation, and ironically they will even contribute to the breaking of the forum rules.............you know at the end, when the originator of this discussion runs out of arguments for his point of view he will chicken out and let his army of apologists do the dirty work for him.

Don't waste your time.......................



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1277 times:

I guess some people can't seem to differentiate between what is lawful and what is NOT lawful.

Maybe they figure that by screaming about how 'racist' and 'flamebaiting' I am, they can divert attention away from the real issue. A time honored Liberal tactic I might add.

And of course we cannot forget human nature, which is to come out swinging blindly because you know that you are backed into a corner and have nowhere to go, no leg to stand on, and no argument.

And lastly, there are no 'apologists' in this discussion. Merely people who see and recognize the truth.

Thank you. That is all.


User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1798 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1274 times:

I just love it when I'm right!  Smile


Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1263 times:

Marco, I don't understand your position. Are you saying that people should have the right to migrate freely wherever they wish, without bothering to deal with the normal immigration process, or pay taxes, etc.? You're advocating chaos.

Charles


User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1261 times:

And lastly, there are no 'apologists' in this discussion. Merely people who see and recognize the truth

Right and we all know who's the one and only thruth bearer.

I'll keep this short

I never justified immigration or said to give them licenses, I just merely tried to point out that it's quite a complicated process with many deep rooted causes. Illegal immigration is indeed a problem and to solve it requires lots of work on both sides of the border. To hear "solutions" like "Let's cancel NAFTA" or "Let's bomb Mexico City" is about as amusing as saying "wooooo let's bomb the WTC!". That's what I take offense to.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1259 times:

SR117 - I have never seen anyone suggest "Lets bomb Mexico City".  Insane

User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1798 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1251 times:

Marco, I don't understand your position. Are you saying that people should have the right to migrate freely wherever they wish, without bothering to deal with the normal immigration process, or pay taxes, etc.? You're advocating chaos.
********************************

I'll keep it simple so you will understand.........."hmmmmmm no"

Go and reread my posts.......you will never see anything to make you think that.


SR117 - I have never seen anyone suggest "Lets bomb Mexico City".
***************************

I have..........on the first post.



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 34
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1220 times:

I think drivers license's for illegals is a good idea.

and while were at it...

Why not have drivers licenses for people with a revoked drivers license?

Why not have drivers license for people who fail the driving test?

Why not issue a drivers license with those with a suspended license?








You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1213 times:

should I even bother again?

I'd hesitate to say complaining about illegals is best left for the uneducated, but.......

Aside from your right as an American to complain about it, I've never heard a decent string of arguments for closing our borders so tightly.

If the Native Americans "closed their boarders" to the Mayflower, none of us would be here now would we?

In that end, I feel most of you allow the first ammendment to protect your ignorance and bigotry of others. I would techincally blame it on lack of education, or at least call it racism due to ignorance.

People coming into this country legally or illegally doesn't do anything but make our society a bit more competitive. Sorry you have to learn another language, it's almost Darwinism, adapt or persish. If illegal Mexican immigrants can do it, I'm sure you can too.

George



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineCovert From Ghana, joined Oct 2001, 1451 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1205 times:

Their main argument is: Without a license we can't have insurance.

Why not do what they do in Switzerland? When you buy your car, the seller keeps his licence plates. It is your responsibility to put plates on the car, and in order to get the plates, you must present a proof of insurance certificate and the car's grey card (sort of a registration/proof of ownership). You cannot get plates without insurance.

Once you have the plates, and you stop paying the insurance premiums, the insurance company calls the authorities and they come to your home and confiscate the plates, to be returned once you provide proof of insurance again.

It works pretty well here.

Charles


Same exact procedure in Pennsylvania. People get around it, and many still drive without licences and insurance.

covert



thank goodness for TCAS !
25 Cicadajet : Illegal immigration from Mexico to the USA is not inevitable. It just takes political will to put an end to it. Build a wall if neccesary. Let prisone
26 Post contains links BlatantEcho : I'll post it again, this applies to a number of you: Oops! You're racist.... ----- http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart
27 RNOcommctr : MattD, you are a hateful and bigoted individual. I chastise myself for even stooping to respond to yet another of your offensive posts. Relatively few
28 L-188 : Build a wall if neccesary. Actually I belive there is already a 40 mile fence between San Diego and Tiajuana. They want to add something like another
29 Cfalk : Same exact procedure in Pennsylvania. People get around it, and many still drive without licences and insurance. How can you get around it, unless enf
30 Covert : How can you get around it, unless enforcement was very lax? You must present proof of insurance in order to receive plates. Do you know how easy it is
31 Cfalk : Here, the insurance immediately informs the authorities that your insurance with them is no longer valid. The insurance companies and the traffic auth
32 Post contains images Matt D : Just explain this to me: SAN DIEGO: ....AND Tijuana: Need I say more?
33 Post contains images CactusA319 : Geez Matty, now I see your point. Let's just bomb the shit out of Tijuana, nobody will miss that cesspool What do those pictures have to do with anyt
34 BlatantEcho : Matt D- The socio-economic plight of one town in one country has nothing to do with anything, expect showing the way you defalut to posting pictures w
35 Matt D : The whole point of the pictures was in reference to some of you who defend illegal immigration by saying, in so many words, that they are "vital" to o
36 BlatantEcho : Matt D- Should I change my age in my profile for you? I don't think that will let you grasp my point any better. In the end, this is the land of the f
37 Cfalk : George, Modern society is based is based on the rule of law. Immigration must be controlled by all countries, as vast migrations have dramatic impact
38 Post contains images SR117 : Wow ! thanks Matt !!! That second pic of Tijuana you posted, that's my house over there ! right above the old tire stairway, if you look closeley on t
39 BlatantEcho : Cfalk- Most borders are absolutely arbitrary. Some are just geographically easy (see rivers and mountain ranges) but for the most part, they are a too
40 Cfalk : George, You have obviously been taught by some rather left-wing history teachers. I'm not going to give you a whole rundown on what they SHOULD be tea
41 Cicadajet : It surely did not serve the Native Americans well that they did not in fact repulse the European "White Man". To keep bringing that up again and again
42 BlatantEcho : Cfalk - so you're claim would be that this country, America is at it's absolute ecological breaking point, as is, say, China. EMPERICAL EVIDENCE PLEAS
43 Cicadajet : - If you are just opposed to outsiders coming into this country, then take a look at how you and I got here in the first place. - ____________________
44 Cfalk : so you're claim would be that this country, America is at it's absolute ecological breaking point, as is, say, China. EMPERICAL EVIDENCE PLEASE. Where
45 BlatantEcho : funny how combating racism = uneducated. ----------- What it seems to me, is you defaulted, AGAIN, to assumptions and assertions. You assert people wi
46 Post contains links Cfalk : I wasn't liberal educated, I hate liberals just as much as you don't understand them. Private catholic education ain't lefty. I was also educated in p
47 BlatantEcho : Hey, now you're talking, but you're still wrong. The current rate of immigration, from Mexico, is approximately 150,000 -200,000 persons a year, of wh
48 Jaysit : Just a footnote... Nonsensical and silly critiques of "liberal" education aside (what else is there besides liberal education? Nothing really. The ter
49 Cfalk : Jaysit, I did not mean those books as the end-all and be-all of liturature. Just a start on a path which hopefully causes the reader to question what
50 Marcus : Wow ! thanks Matt !!! That second pic of Tijuana you posted, that's my house over there ! right above the old tire stairway, if you look closeley on t
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