Sabena 690 From Belgium, joined Feb 2002, 6332 posts, RR: 58 Posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 786 times:
This is a quote from a post in the civil aviation forum:
You sit and talk bad about Americans and bash our President but your never to proud to beg us to come and help you when something happens to your country. Did any of your countries send financial aid over here to help us pay for 9/11? No you didn't! But if it happened to you you'd all be sticking your hands out waiting for MY HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS to save your butt.
Things like this really make my blood boiling, this is totally bullsh*t.
It is thanks to our Belgian specialized dog teams, that the life of several Americans was saved after the 9/11 attacks. Belgium sent (together with other support), specialized dog teams to the US. Those dogs are trained in smelling humans. Belgian teams were flown to Ground Zero and THANKS TO THEM, American lives where saved. This is only one example of how we supported the US.
I hope you understand comments like the above disgust and offend the Belgian people, and even more our Belgian teams that went to America. Never but never did one American thank us for our help (not that I expect that), but claiming the opposite (nobody helped us) is just false.
Sadly enough, a lot of Americans have forgotten the reaction of the world during the 9/11 attacks.
I still remember the day of the attacks (it was almost evening over here when I heard it) and the days after the attacks. Everyone was SHOCKED, people cried in front of their tv after seeing how all those thousands of people where suffering. The day after at school, nobody said one word, never was it so silent in class, all this because we all were very emotional and shocked. One teacher even made a prayer in for all who died in the attacks (and this in a country where religion doesn't play a big role).
It would be a nice Christmas present when all the crap about "the euro's hate us" and "nobody helped us in 9/11" would finally come to and end. I AM a European, and can only say to you, Americans: never but never had I seen such a support towards the US, and such a compassion with all those who suffered from the attacks.
And although we do not agree with your foreign policy (which is our right), we still show the same respect towards the Americans as back than.
A New Year has come, I hope that for once all the hatress towards eachother on this forum, and in real life, will be replaced in RESPECT, respect coming from both sides. Even when we do not agree with eachother, it would bring us much farther when we at least TRY to do so, and respect eachother's opinions
A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all of you.
Frederic
VS340 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 749 times:
I agree wholeheartedly. It is extremely offensive when certain Americans become so self- centered and arrogant that they can't even recognize what the world did for them after 9/11(Im not saying this is all Americans, but it is obvious there are some.) Countries all across the globe stepped in to help out after 9/11, including here in Canada.
Despite the fact that we had a moron for a Prime Minister, who's personal vendetta against GWB clouded his judgement in how to respond to 9/11, Canadians across the country stood up and offered everything they could to help out. One of the largest private fund-raising campaigns was by a group of teenagers who made ribbons to sell for victims of 9/11, and what started out as a modest campaign ended up earning thousands and thousands of dollars, every penny of which went to the victims of 9/11
In the days after, walking through malls there were giant bins put out by the Canadian Red Cross, square bins 4 feet tall by 3 feet wide, packed to exploding with money for victims.
Canada as well sent trained dogs to aid in the search for victims, many of these dogs later got sick and died from the toxins in the air, the owners knew full well of the risks to their animals, but they knew that they had to do what they had to do to help the victims of this horrible tragedy.
Across Canada Police services and Fire Services volunteer their men and women's own time and money to travel to New York to act as peer counsellors to the NYFD and NYPD, who lost so many of their own and suffered terrible mental scarring. This was all done for free on their own personal time, done for the sake of goodwill.
the Canadian military fought along side the Americans in Afghanistan, and despite the fact that our military is poorly equipped and underfunded because of years of neglect by the Liberal government in Ottawa, our servicemen and servicewomen were proud to stand along side the Americans to fight the terrorists who caused this.
And, Despite the fact that our government chose not to join in the war on Iraq, because the felt it had nothing to do with Terrorism, our military still are in Afghanistan trying to keep the peace, and still stand in the War against Terrorism.
And, it always seems to be forgotten, but America wasn't the only one to lose people on that day, they did lose the most but many of the victims were from all over the world, including here in Canada.
Of course who can forget the mass prayers, candle light vigils, and rememberence cermonies that took place across the world, from Europe to Asia, to Australia, to North and South America and even Parts of Africa. I recall seeing people weep for those who died in America that day, i recall ceremonies happening in countries that are apparantly America's enemies now, I recall massive influx's of donations going into the US from all over the world, unfathomable amounts of money.
I believe it is safe to say that the world cared about America after 9/11.
It is too bad the Bush administration has gone and blown all that support they had.
Teva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1821 posts, RR: 21 Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 728 times:
Just a little reminder. I was in the US at that time, so I don't know if rescue teams have been sent to the US or not. But:
- There have been a lot of support demonstrations in France, including thousands of people in front of the US embassy in PAris.
- President CHirac has been the first to visit New-York and express the compassion of the French people.
- Even today, you have French troops in Afghanistan
Teva
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
MoPac From United States, joined Sep 2003, 214 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 717 times:
Sadly enough, a lot of Americans have forgotten the reaction of the world during the 9/11 attacks.
Could you not say the same about the Euopeans?
Don't forget, that your posts, which I find are consistently negative with regards to anything American, along with headlines quoting the Belgian Secritary of ????'s wife saying "America deserved 9/11" can stir reactions other than gratitude for you sniffing dogs. You think only your blood boils, you think only American's are ungreatful, you think only American's forgot 9/11??? Think again.
MoPac From United States, joined Sep 2003, 214 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 694 times:
Lies??? What lies? You mean my opinion: "your posts, which I find are consistently negative with regards to anything American". That's just my lousy opinion.
Attacking??? What attacking? You mean responding to:"It is extremely offensive when certain Americans become so self- centered and arrogant that they can't even recognize what the world did for them after 9/11" Hmmm. What do you want. You come over here and help us re-build ourselves then expect us to treat you as allies fighting for the same cause, hand in hand, till death do us part? Haah! How American!
Seriously... Yes, some... errr... many American's are self-centered, arrogant, ignorant, etc. But I don't think for a minute that the majority of the population is oblivious to or ungrateful of the aid rendered by the nations of the world after 9/11. Don't confuse ditzy with arrogant.
It would be a nice Christmas present when all the crap about "the euro's hate us"
Why bring it up then?
Sabena 690 From Belgium, joined Feb 2002, 6332 posts, RR: 58 Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 687 times:
along with headlines quoting the Belgian Secritary of ????'s wife saying "America deserved 9/11" can stir reactions other than gratitude for you sniffing dogs.
In case you hadn't understood yet, I'm talking about this. Show me where the hell I should have written this. Than you may accuse me again, but before this, get your facts straight.
But I don't think for a minute that the majority of the population is oblivious to or ungrateful of the aid rendered by the nations of the world after 9/11.
Where did I say 'the majority'
Djeezes, why do I even bother...
Even when you try to get some tolerance on this board, it still has to be destroyed with false accusations.
MoPac From United States, joined Sep 2003, 214 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 665 times:
Actually, besides your last line, every quote you posted is not written by me.
Sadly enough, a lot of Americans have forgotten the reaction of the world during the 9/11 attacks.
Line 14, Thread Starter
It is extremely offensive when certain Americans become so self- centered and arrogant that they can't even recognize what the world did for them after 9/11
You did not say that, my bad. Sorry!
It would be a nice Christmas present when all the crap about "the euro's hate us"
As you said, the last one... Line 20, Thread Starter
But I don't think for a minute that the majority of the population is oblivious to or ungrateful of the aid rendered by the nations of the world after 9/11.
Where did I say 'the majority'
I never said you said the majority. That was my opinion.
along with headlines quoting the Belgian Secretary of ????'s wife saying "America deserved 9/11" can stir reactions other than gratitude for you sniffing dogs.
>Actually I wonder what you want to prove dude, since no Belgian has ever said anything like that...
I'm sure that if that would have happened, the State Secretary of ??? (who the hell are you actually talking about) would have been fired
>In case you hadn't understood yet, I'm talking about this. Show me where the hell I should have written this. Than you may accuse me again, but before this, get your facts straight.
This was published in a book "For Grace and Glory" or something along those lines, earlier this year. The book discussed the political divergence of The United States and Europe, and how that is mainly the U.S.'s fault. The quote was from the wife of a high ranking Belgian diplomat, and she said this within earshot, but not directly to a high ranking American diplomat at a diplomatic function/party of some sort. I am at relatives for the Holidays so unfortunately I don't have the book at hand.
Look, I am not trying to back you into a corner, or pick a fight, or anything along those lines. I did have something to prove and I thought my replies made it pretty clear. Every post I made above was a response to your posts (with one exception), and I responded with my perspective. Yeah, I was heated with my responses there, but not to the "this really make my blood boiling, this is totally bullsh*t" level. I originally replied to this thread because I found it ironic that you feel Europe isn't getting the credit for helping out after 9/11, when I kind of got the same impression with some European's views of the U.S. over the past year, that's all.
Commander_Rabb From United States, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 13 Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 644 times:
Why are you starting this obvious flame 690? Just get over it and ignore what you don't like. A post like this does nothing to diffuse statements whether they are correct or not. You come across as very thin skinned over this in my opinion. Or were you indeed trying to start something? You seem very opinionated and Eurocentric on a lot off issues yourself. But that's you thoughts whether they are correct or not. Show a little more maturity.
We all know the reality of what happened in September 2001, and the reaction around the world. As for a thank you to Belgium for it's gracious efforts, you are mistaken that Belgium and their rescue teams were never thanked. They were, as were a whole lot of other people and countries.
Sabena 690 From Belgium, joined Feb 2002, 6332 posts, RR: 58 Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 610 times:
Commander Rab: why I start this topic?
In reaction to this quote I found in civil aviation: You sit and talk bad about Americans and bash our President but your never to proud to beg us to come and help you when something happens to your country. Did any of your countries send financial aid over here to help us pay for 9/11? No you didn't! But if it happened to you you'd all be sticking your hands out waiting for MY HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS to save your butt.
There is only one point in this (maybe too long) thread: a request for tolerance. I know that my first post is written in quite bad English, but I hope everybody understands what I mean.
The number of posts over here of people who claim that 'we hate America' and 'we got no help from other nations in 9/11' is so big that I wanted to point out that only the opposite is true.
A post like this does nothing to diffuse statements whether they are correct or not. You come across as very thin skinned over this in my opinion. Or were you indeed trying to start something?
I think you are drawing too much conclusions Commander Rabb: is my post so unclear or why are you taking all those conclusions in a simple thread where I want to point out that Americans are not as much hated and disliked as much of you think?
And I'm far from Eurocentric.
As for a thank you to Belgium for it's gracious efforts, you are mistaken that Belgium and their rescue teams were never thanked. They were, as were a whole lot of other people and countries.
I know Commander, but I was talking about several people over here, on this forum. With the quote above as an example. Some people over here dear to accuse us of 'being happy with 9/11', honnestly I don't know where they get that from...
Go Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 19 Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 601 times:
Well i do find this all a bit rich if not plain funny, the same people complaining on this site that america thinks they dont support them are the same ones more often or not criticial of us policy, accusing it of 'imperialism', 'human rights abuses', 'war crimes', 'breaking international law' etc etc/
Im in the uk, i know america likes us, i know there are websites etc praising britains help and im safe in the knowledge that we are americas greatest friend.Despite the war protests most people in our country back the usa.
Perhaps instead of moaning these people should look and think why americans feel certain countries do not support them and appear to pratically appease terrorism with their comments.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
B747forlife From United States, joined Nov 2001, 392 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 578 times:
Sabena 690 - You are flat out wrong on all of your points in the thread starter. Americans do remember 9/11 and we do remember all the heartfelt warmth and help we received from people all over the world. We do remember the moments of silence and rememberance. We do remember those who are helping get rid of terrorists throughout the world. And you know what, we do accept the differing opinions on Iraq, because we are American.
Now, you cannot really expect the Bush administration, which is working towards making Iraq a much better place to just simply let bygones be bygones THIS quickly, but they too know how helpful Europe is and what good friends we still are although there have been tensions.
What I see from you is someone who dislikes America, and needs to let that be shown. Fine, you can be that way. However, don't take SILLY, out of the mainstream comments such as the one you quoted in the thread starter and say that all American's act that way. WE DON'T. The mainstream, the high majority, whatever you want to call it, knows how much we have been helped lately, and we ARE greatful.
Go Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 19 Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 571 times:
"What I see from you is someone who dislikes America, and needs to let that be shown. Fine, you can be that way. However, don't take SILLY, out of the mainstream comments such as the one you quoted in the thread starter and say that all American's act that way."
totally right, im sure sabena and others on here wouldnt like it if we labelled all muslims as terrorists based on one quote from a hardliner.
There are always idiots in every society and country but this has been taken out of context in order to bash america when instead at this time of year we should be talking about reconcilliation.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
MidnightMike From United States, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 36 Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 558 times:
Sabena
First off, this country was very grateful for the assistance and compassion from the international community, we have expressed our sincere gratitude on many occasions. The people the t died in the World Trade Center were from other countries as well, which was another reason why it created international sorrow, who knows, the reaction may have been different had it been 3000 people attending a basketball game in Los Angeles.
That said, this country has not forgotten the worlds assistance with 9/11, just like the Europeans have not forgotten our assistance that we provided countries during World War II.
President Bush, in my opinion has been a great president for the USA, with his strength and leadership. It is these same strengths that causes some to call him arrorgant, fine, everybody has an opinion.
Sabena 690 From Belgium, joined Feb 2002, 6332 posts, RR: 58 Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 540 times:
What I see from you is someone who dislikes America, and needs to let that be shown.
Yes, and that's exactly the reason why the US is the first long haul destination on my list to visit . If I wouldn't have had exams, there was a small chance that I would have been able to visit the US in September 2003. Due to financial reasons, I will now have to delay my trip to 2005. Funny huh, for someone who (following you) hates the US! Already as a kid, I was dreaming especially from the West-Coast.
And your point is wrong: you generalize my political views to the US, and this is one of the reasons I started this topic. I'm afraid that nobody has gotten my point due to my bad English above. I can assure you that talking about your feelings in another language is extremely difficult.
at this time of year we should be talking about reconcilliation.
And this was exactly my intention of this topic...
I had a hard time to understand the people supporting Bush (you have to know that Bush would never but never have been elected in Belgium, in general we see things totally different as him), but I tried to put myself in place of the Americans, and although I still disagree with a lot of his points (which is my right), I now understand why people like him.
I would still never vote for him, but if the majority of the Americans likes him, just vote for him. When we all will be 20 years older, and read history books about our time, than we will see who was right and who was wrong.
B747forlife From United States, joined Nov 2001, 392 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 522 times:
Sabena 690 - If you like America so much, why was the first thing in your thread starter a quote from one American, followed by a tirade describing how "a lot" of Americans have forgotten how much help we received?
What you really meant to say, as I see it, which isn't a complete shocker, is that while you don't agree with the Bush administration, the American people are alright with you. Now, if you feel that way, great, because not everyone in the US loves Bush, but the way you wrote it definately says Americans are ignorant, don't appreciate help, and are overall the least friendly people in the world. This isn't true.
Anyway, glad to have sorted that out. Have fun when you come over here to visit, I'm sure you'll meet plenty of people who are happy you're here, because that's what us Americans do.
Sabena 690 From Belgium, joined Feb 2002, 6332 posts, RR: 58 Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 518 times:
What you really meant to say, as I see it, which isn't a complete shocker, is that while you don't agree with the Bush administration, the American people are alright with you.
This is actually how I always thought... maybe my posts about Bush (especially in the far past) where quite 'heavy' but it was never my intention to critizice the US citizens. Although I have problems with a handful extremists on this board, I'm smart enough not to generalize those few to all Americans, simply because you have extremists EVERYWHERE (as well on the left as on the right side, and both are bad).
If you like America so much, why was the first thing in your thread starter a quote from one American, followed by a tirade describing how "a lot" of Americans have forgotten how much help we received?
Honnestly I hadn't realized that I gave that impression with that sentence. And actually, my topic doesn't go about the fact that I want to hear 'thank you'.
My topic has only one point: Americans need Europeans, and Europeans need Americans.
Maybe this seems quite 'emotional', but I thought that now it's Christmas time, it was the good moment to take a new start! There have never been as much US versus EU versus US wars this year, never have so much insults been made. And what was the result? Nothing. I know that it's wishful thinking, but if everybody would try to have some more respect for eachother, this board would be a much better place. I know this is still an internet forum, but this doesn't mean we all can just attack eachother.
Scorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4639 posts, RR: 51 Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 513 times:
I think that the thread-started was aimed not at the majority of Americans who are indeed grateful for our help after 9/11, but to the small, but very loud, minority of extremely ignorant people who write crap like the quote Sabena 690 reacted to. I must say that my blood started boiling too when I first read it, and I can understand Sabena 690's reaction very well. What that person is writing (who wrote that, BTW?) is like Europeans claiming that the US did nothing to help us in WWII. That would get your blood boiling too, wouldn't it?
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. If I wouldn't have had exams, there was a small chance that I would have been able to visit the US in September 2003. Due to financial reasons, I will now have to delay my trip to 2005. Funny huh, for someone who (following you) hates the US! Already as a kid, I was dreaming especially from the West-Coast.
There have never been as much US versus EU versus US wars this year, never have so much insults been made. And what was the result? Nothing. I know that it's wishful thinking, but if everybody would try to have some more respect for eachother, this board would be a much better place. I know this is still an internet forum, but this doesn't mean we all can just attack eachother.
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