Teahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5266 posts, RR: 63 Posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1434 times:
What is your opinion about the 14 year old boy who was sentenced to life without parole for the murder of of a 6 year old girl.
I definitely find this terrible. He was only 12 when he commited the crime! He killed the girl by accident immitating wrestling moves from TV.
I certainly don't think what he did was right, but certainly don't think life without parole is a fair sentence. How can a 12 year old be responsible enough to know what he is doing? It takes very little to kill someone by accident.
What is the legal system about? Treating someone to make them suitable for future release or just personal revenge for the family?
I definitely feel sorry for that poor boy! The tears that poured down his face as the judge read out the sentence . How can he feel? When he looks at the future, he sees nothing, just everyday spent the same way, in prison! It must truly drive you mad. No chance to earn a living, get a real education, have a girlfriend, or lead a life.
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
Ikarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1369 times:
By accident? Immitating wrestlers on TV?
I don't know anything about this particular case, but in principle I am not against it - thinking of the two kids that kidnapped and beat to death a toddler in the UK a few years ago, or the 12-year-old Bavarian boy who chopped up his younger niece with an axe after watching too many horror movies, I'm all for it. In fact, these are the cases where one should really consider putting them out of their life-long misery and just give them the death penalty - these kids will never grow up to become normal members of society, they are too gruesome psychologically to ever redeem themselves - and a life of prison is probably too cruel....
Now I'm almost sounding like a conservative American - Urghh.
Iainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1355 times:
Jeremiah I do see where you are coming, however immatating a Wrestling move sounds like a lawyers twist to me!
You have to understand that the little girl also has no chance to, earn a living, get a realy education, have a boyfriend, or lead a life for what this guy did. I that the girl has it far worse off, for what this guy did to her!
At 12 you know enough NOT TO HIT GIRLS, especially much younger small ones! So what the hell was he doing body slamming and he is a big guy!
To be honest I feel that justice has been served!
Timbo From Germany, joined Jan 2012, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1348 times:
I don't completly agree with the life sentence but he should get punished. When I was 12 I knew wrestling was purely fake. I would have thought he would have enough common sense not to do it. I think Florida is just using this kid as an example to scare kids into not committing crimes.
BAYTRACON From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1337 times:
At twelve years of age, I knew enough not to imitate the fighting I saw on television or in films.
There is clearly something wrong with that boy to the mental capacity that is, if the lawyers' argument of wrestling imitation IS true.
I think that institutionalisation would be a better bet for this kid.
At least he would get close psychological monitoring. If he really IS some kind of mental, agressive child, a life in prison could do more damage to him. Who know what rash measures he could take, being in prison for such a long time.
I do not disagree with putting this person away, but the issue is WHERE.
Derek H From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1332 times:
I saw this on the news last night or somthing. They said hte girl had over 30 injuries, from a fractured skull, to a punctured liver. Even if these were caused from wresling moves, after the first time he hurt her, she should stopped and got her help. But i dont beileve this is the case! He kept on beating her. And he was a pretty big boy, and she was a little 6 year old girl. There had to have been somthing wrong with him. I dont feel that it was 'practicing wrestling moves' on her that killed her, it too was just an excuse to try to get the boy off for murdering that little girl. I am all for him getting life w/o parole, but rather the death penalty, because he just going to be sucking money off hte government for the rest of his life....
Ikarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1326 times:
The legal system is about many things; the three most important ones in my eyes are
2) safety from violence
3) readjustment to society.
As I believe that no.s 1 and 2 are very important, and no. 3 is hopeless in this case, I think imprisonment for life - or even the death penalty - is fully justified in the case of an aggressive gruesome murder, whether the murderer is a child or not.
I have been a child - but I have never been a violent child, and I have never made any mistakes anywhere near as bad as killing another child - so I don't think this stupid excuse "He did not know right from wrong" is at all valid in this case. Every child knows from birth on, by instinct, that killing is wrong - so I don't sympathize with that kid at all.
PS: The justice system is not meant to be a treatment for an illness in all cases - it can be seen as treatment against chronical shoplifting, but violent murder or rape are not just minor flaws in someone's psyche - they are too deep to be treated and all those psychologists releasing pseudo-harmless happy child rapists back into society belong behind the same bars as their patients in my eyes!
Iainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1320 times:
Teahen you are fogetting he killed a little girl 1/3 of his size! I agree it easy to make a mistake, but beating up a child is not mistake. I agree with Ikarus I would not have minded the death penalty in this case. It is easy to cry and say I am sorry now, but it is too little to late! Florida is not using him as an example, he committed a horrible crime, and now he will have to pay the time!
Matt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1321 times:
Let me just interject my two cents here.
First of all, I wholheartedly echo the sentiment of Ikarus here.
Second, when you say he had tears coming down his face, and showed remorse, I'd bet my left testicle that he only felt sorry for being caught and watching his life go down the drain.
Third, I will go to my grave and never, EVER believe that someone "doesn't know right from wrong", or suffers from "temporary insanity".
Those are both copouts, and are feeble excuses for feeble people.
If criminals don't know right from wrong as they contend, why do so many of them go to great lengths to avoid capture such as high speed pursuits, wearing ski masks, and so on?
They know exactly what they are doing.
Lastly, why not make an example out of this kid?
Tell me one good reason why we sholdn't.
I think that he should be incarcerated for life, and for two reasons.
First, as stated above, it will send a message to the rest of the community.
Second, if we only lock him up for 10 or 15 years, that means he won't get out until he's in his late 20's or early 30's.
What is he going to do with his life? He never finished high school, so he probably won't even have sufficent skills to succeed in any college or vocational schools. How will he support himself?
Not only that, but he will also have missed the "windows" for some important development stages in life.
he will not have graduated high school. he will not have gone to the prom. he will not experience the excitement of getting his drivers license, or turning the critical ages of 18 and 21 and the respective rights and responsibilities that come with the passing of those ages. He will have had virtually no interaction with any of his peers. So his social skills will be nil or nonexistant.
Add it all up, and you have an individual who is now all but guaranteed to be a repeat offender, who will be returning through the jail systems again and again.
Face it. As an productive individual of society, this kid has been written off. He has already sealed his own fate.
Why not do all of us a favor and just keep him locked up? That way, any of his potential future victims (assault, robbery, etc.) will be spared, and we can save the expenses occurred from repeat litgation.
Teahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5266 posts, RR: 63 Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1305 times:
You talk like if he was a machine or animal and not like if he was a child. Do you realise that he has feeling like everyone else.
He did not try and hide his crime. After commiting he went to his mum and told her what happened. That proves remorse. It is the first day or two after the crime that count and prove if you show remorse or not.
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
Ikarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1303 times:
Jeremiah, if I may call you that despite disagreeing with you here:
What I was referring to is a basic instinct given to most (admittedly not all) animals from birth: do not kill those of your own kind. This instinct is meant to help these species in their struggle for survival - and it is pretty strong in mankind according to my beliefs.
Eating animals is a matter of nutrition. Killing you own species is a matter of reducing your species' chance of survival.
I am fully aware of the exceptions (birds throsing each other out of their nests, fatal mating fights, cannibalising spiders eating their mother etc. etc.) - but in this case I believe mankind to act like most known species do - hence it is a natural instinct, even present in children.
Or did you as child ever wonder whether it was right or wrong to kill another child? I bet not. You knew it - by instinct.
Iainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1299 times:
Jeremiah - Although other kids get away with it it is not right! He has Killed some one why should he get off with only a couple years, while she gets the death penalty!! Not only has he killed her, but think of what all her family and friends have been through, which is alot more then him, and a lot more then what he has been through!
Although he might be big, her injuries where no accident, they where intended! He wanted to hurt her!!
Teahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5266 posts, RR: 63 Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1295 times:
Iainhol, yes it may not be right but other people get away & will get away with it, so why not him? That is definitely not fair.
It may well have been an accident. I don't watch wresting on TV but anyway, don't those participants just stand up and walk away after being severly beaten?
He could have thought that the same would happen!
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6 Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1290 times:
I agree with MattD Ikarus
If someone can commit this (with such wontoness) at 14, the behaviours are well ingrained and probably can't be changed. I don't by that "not knowing right from wrong"; 14 is a little late not to know the difference. As far as "remorse" and "tears" I don't buy that either. If he isn't mature enough to "know right from wrong" then he certainly isn't old enough to embrace the concept of "remorse".
PS What kind of parents does this child have that would be so negelegent in his upbringing??
Iainhol From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1291 times:
Jeremiah - The wounds the young girls has are no accident. And about him telling his mom, I remember breaking a glass table (I was playing soccer in the house) and I rushed off to tell my mom, as if she found out by seeing it I would have been in a lot more trouble!
You are really missing the point THIS KID KILLED SOMEONE. Why should he not have to pay for his crime? She paid a lot higher price then he will ever!
EIPremier From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1533 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1287 times:
I'm not familiar with the case, but if Ikarus' "option 3" is not possible, than I agree that the death penalty may be the best option.
In most juvenile cases of this nature, I would say incarceration in conjunction with active treatment is the best sentence. MattD makes a valid point about readjustment to society, but I do believe in a second-chance to be offered to certain indivduals.
However, my initial reaction would be that the perpetrator of such a crime is beyond help.
In such a situation, what is the purpose of life emprisonment without parole?
Derek H From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1269 times:
I saw the kid on the news, he was only crying AFTER he heard his sentence. What most of you are forgetting that was it was a mere 'accident' is this little girl had 30 injuries. If he had just 'accidently' fallen on her, and killed her, it would not have caused a craked skull and punched liver (which were two of the main injuries). So....for those who say it was an injry, it oviously wasn't.
25 747-451: Teahan, Yes, I am disgusted with "society" as well; where were the parents? With "children" like this what kind of future will we have? What kind of "
26 Tupolev154B2: No accident, it was murder. But I still think that giving him life w/o parole is wrong. How is this case different from the case of that 13 year-old i
27 Teahan: Hey, Tom, that was a great post. definitely agree with you. DerekH, did you ever think that attemptying wrestling moves might just have caused that. 7
28 Iainhol: Jeremiah - Think about it, I do not care if he was attempting wrestling moves he KILLED a innocent child! I am sure by the age of 12 you knew better t
29 Joona: I'm tellin ya, this guy's gonna commit a suicide in prison. I'm 95% sure of it. And in the same case, I'd too. But I'm pretty sure, that if he's still
30 Teahan: Hey, Iain, if you were told that would spend your life in prison because of something you did by accident/because you lost control of yourself, wouldn
31 Iainhol: Jeremiah - You classed it as remorse earlier!! Do you understand that this guy KILLED some one, it is very difficult to kill some one with your hands
32 Teahan: Hey, Well maybe is it remorse, maybe self pity, maybe it is both. I am not a psycologist. I understand that he killed someone, but I don't believe he
33 Matt D: And where were the parents when this was going on? Thank you very much. There's part of the problem right there: Irresponsible parents.
34 Teahan: Hey, MattD, well then why should the child be blamed for the irresponsible actions of the parents? The judge could have taken that into consideration
35 Iainhol: Jeremiah - You seem to make excuse after excuse for this murderer! By the age of 12 you know if you hit some one it hurts, if you body slam some one i
36 NW-ELITE: You dont practicing wrestling moves on a 6 year old! Whatsoever. But they weren't even wrestling moves, he was just beating her.
37 Teahan: Hey, Iainhol, how can he see the sun rise in a prison cell? Newer prison cells don't even have windows. They have Skylights with which you can't see t
38 Matt D: Tell you what Jeremiah...... I'll come over and pound your younger sibling (or child assuming you have one) that is about 10 years old and weighs 110
39 Teahan: Hey, NW-Elite, yes well if he was just beating her, he most probably did not mean to kill her! Kids are beaten up in every school, but the aim is neve
40 Teahan: Hey, MattD, I have no children (I am 15) and no brothers/sisters either. Well no, he was a child when he did it. He was not even close to being mature
41 Blink182: That was definately too harsh. Lets face it, if there was no pro wrestling, this whole thing wouldn't have happened. The two of them were playing, and
42 Iainhol: Jeremiah He will smile again one day won't he? You can not make excuses for a murderer, he knew what he was doing! The kid in Michigan should have got
43 Iainhol: Jeremiah her injuries where the equivalent to falling from a 3 story building. That is more then some accident that is wanting to harm. She weighed 48
44 Iainhol: Blink - Last time I checked if it was wrestling when you are down for 3 seconds you loose. You do not get injuries like she did, he intended to hurt h
45 Derek H: In my opinion, if we dont show harsh punishment for this type of act soon, when is it going to stop? At the age of 12, your in the 7th grade, right? S
46 CVG777: I beleive that this is a bit outrageous. A 14-year old boy gets life for accidentally, or so he says, killing his cousin. Yet, there are students who
47 EIPremier: Under what state's jurisdiction did this occur? I'm just curious. Even though it's life w/o parole, doesn't it still have to go before a parole-board
48 Teahan: Hey, I know that he wrecked a life, but why on earth does the government have to wreck another life? He would have a change in society if he worked to
49 Iainhol: The are not wrecking another, he wrecked his own life! How can you blame the goverment for what he did? Have you forgotten about the little girl who g
50 N312RC: I believe that this kid should be thrown into a maximum security prison for a 400 year sentence (Joe Arpaio's prison would work). He knew better. Teah
51 Teahan: Hey, Well all of you are not seeing the whole picture. You are just looking at him and seeing a murderer. You are not thinking about what caused the m
52 Iainhol: Jeremiah You can not blame the media for this. We all have wacthed wrestling, and horror movies, and had our own fair share of problems, but we do not
53 Cicadajet: Ordinarily I would only be in favor of severe punishment for minors if they were out and about committing violent acts against strangers in the civili
54 Teahan: Hey, I watched a few minutes of wrestling last night and saw that is was rather terribly violent, people jumping on each other, screaming in pain etc.
55 NW-ELITE: Quit defending him! If he was wrestling her so what! You never ever wrestle on a little six year old girl who weighs 40 pounds.
56 Iainhol: Jeremiah I beat your parents feel that this kid punishment was too! You seem to try and make excuses for this kid! By the age of 12 everyone knows if
57 Iainhol: I noticed that my first posts had many errors, which is probably because it is late here and I have been working all day! I think that this topic dise
58 Che: Definately way too harsh!! He was playing and it was an accincent. He derserves some time but not that much and at least with a chance of parole. Imag
59 Iainhol: >>Imagine sitting there hearing that sentence and knowing that your life in some ways is over, that you have to spend the rest of your life in prison.
60 FDXmech: Jeremiah, You're absolutedly right and I agree with you. I propose he gets 6 months of counseling and then we will send him to Ireland to live with yo
61 Redngold: Very sad. I think that a child (yes, someone under 18 is a child to me, now that I've seen the real world) should be given a chance to rehabilitate in
62 Pacific: I didn't bother reading the 60 or so posts above.... A person commiting a crime at the age of 12 should not be treated as an adult. Now a 14 year old
63 N312RC: Was he psycoligically strong my foot! That's a load of crap. The kid needs to be held accountable. Can you imagine what would happen if they just let
64 Ctbarnes: Ever wonder how prision sentaces and the death penalty are perceived to be more about revenge than justice? Charles, SJ
65 Teahan: Hey, FDXMech, ever considered sticking to the topic? Rengold and Pacific, I agree with you both! Anyway, society should move away from primitive notio
66 Iainhol: >>the law must value all life, even the life of a murderer
67 Ctbarnes: Are you suggesting, Iain, because the murderer does not value life, the law should not either? I personally expect a slightly higher moral ground for
68 Iainhol: Ctbarnes, remember the saying you have to give respect to get respect, if they give no respect for human life, why should they recieve any? Iain
69 Ctbarnes: The trouble with that logic Iain is that it leaves us morally no better off than those who commit the crimes. If we command via law a respect for life
70 Iainhol: We are better off, as before the criminal did there act they knew that the goverment would punish them if they got caught. I victim did not, or they w
71 Ctbarnes: Sorry Iain, I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. Please clarify. Thanks Charles, SJ
72 Iainhol: When a criminal commits a crime, he knows if he gets caught he is going to prison! However the victim has no idea that they where going to attacked fo
73 DeltAirlines: The kid thought he couldn't hurt the girl. A 12 year old should know better, especially since this kid is pretty large. I saw lay down the law, as tha
74 Ctbarnes: Actually the threat of prision is the last thing on someone's mind when a crime is committed. Interviews of those in prision or have committed crimes
75 Blink182: Joona- I agree with you, something tells me he will commit suicide in prison after a couple of years, however, I doubt that he will be let out after a