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Bush To Propose Changes To Mexican Immigration  
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4477 posts, RR: 15
Posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1055 times:

Oh boy. Talk about a blatant PR move to win votes in the next election.

Matt D will love this:


Bush to Propose Immigration Law Changes

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040106/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_immigration_1


WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) will propose immigration law changes to allow workers from Mexico to enter the United States if they have jobs waiting for them, officials said Monday in previewing an election-year measure intended to bolster support among Hispanic voters.


Advocacy groups were invited to the White House on Wednesday to hear details of the program.


"The president has long talked about the importance of having an immigration policy that matches willing workers with willing employers," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said. "It's important for America to be a welcoming society. We are a nation of immigrants, and we're better for it."


Immigration advocacy groups characterized Bush's move as a politically drawn effort to curry favor with Hispanics, a potent political force, particularly in key states like Florida, California and border states. Two sources speaking on condition of anonymity said Bush would outline a set of principles rather than a detailed piece of legislation, and that the policy statement would draw on bills already pending in Congress.


"It looks very much like a political effort and what they do with these `principles' is going to determine whether this is really a policy initiative or not," said Cecilia Munoz, vice president for policy at the National Council of La Raza. "The Latino community knows the difference between political posturing and a real policy debate."


She said the initiative was crafted by Bush's political strategist, Karl Rove, and that the immigration policy community was excluded from the deliberations.


"We know of no one in the immigration policy community, business groups or Latino groups who has been consulted," she said.


Rove, with Bush at a campaign fund-raiser in St. Louis, deflected questions about Bush's proposal.


"Stay tuned," he told a reporter.


Bush's planned announcement comes five days before he meets in Mexico with President Vicente Fox (news - web sites) on the sidelines of the Summit of the Americas, a meeting of the hemisphere's leaders.


Mexico is seeking a measure of legality for the approximately 4 million undocumented Mexicans living in the United States and wants a legal way for others to work in the country in the future.


Immigration talks between the United States and Mexico stalled when the Sept. 11 terror attacks prompted the United States to tighten border restrictions, and were set back further by Mexico's refusal to support the Iraq (news - web sites) war. Tensions also arose over Bush's refusal to stop the execution of a Mexican national in Texas.


Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, at a town hall meeting in Miami last month, hinted at a change of policy when he said the United States needs to "come to grips" with an estimated 8 million to 12 million illegal immigrants and "determine how you can legalize their presence." He also said that the immigrants should not be rewarded citizenship.


Bush, at a year-end news conference in January, said he was preparing to send Congress ideas about an "immigration policy that helps match any willing employer with any willing employee." He said he is "firmly against blanket amnesty," or a mass legalization.


Two guest-worker bills have been proposed in Congress: One from Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain and two of McCain's Republican House colleagues, Jim Kolbe and Jeff Flake; and a second from Sen. John Cornyn.


Cornyn, a Texas Republican, has proposed that illegal immigrants could volunteer to work for up to three years if a job exists for them. When they've worked three years, they could apply for legal permanent residence, but must return to their country of origin to do so.


Workers illegally in the United States would have 12 months to apply to the program and after that would no longer be eligible. Those accepted would be given a "blue card," allowing them to travel outside the United States.





The Cornyn proposal would give guest workers the same rights granted Americans under Labor Department (news - web sites) laws and would set up accounts for workers in which employers would deposit money drawn from workers' wages in lieu of withdrawing the money for Social Security (news - web sites) or Medicare.

The money would be held by the Treasury and would be refunded to the worker when the worker returns to his or her home country.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1049 times:

As long as they pay their taxes and are they follow the law, it's OK with me.

They are the ones that clean toilets and do all the dirty work.



Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1044 times:

They are the ones that clean toilets and do all the dirty work.

Unfortunately, yes they are. And most Mexicans that I know are extremely hard working people. It is the ones that come here, pay no taxes, and demand social services that piss me off.

I welcome this new legislation.


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1043 times:

Oh boy. Talk about a blatant PR move to win votes in the next election.

Oh, get off your goddamn soapbox. Guest worker programs have existed before, and have long been favored by pro-business elements in border states. Now that states like Oregon, Idaho, Georgia, the Carolinas, and pretty much the whole midwest are growing increasingly dependent on Mexican labor for agricultural uses, like the border states, support for guest worker arrangements is growing as well.

Many liberal politicians actually oppose guest worker programs because they feel they exploit the guest worker, that a blanket amnesty program is "more appropriate."

Mexican folks come safely and legally to the States and make more money than they can make back home doing jobs that no American would ever be willing to do, their families back home benefit from the income, and the American agriculture industry gets its cheap labor. Who loses?



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1023 times:

Sounds like a plan to me....

Maybe the Libs will like it as they will be able to tax them!

Jeff


User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1021 times:

Maybe the GOP will sent them to fight a war based on lies Big grin


Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1019 times:

How silly... is that all you got?  Big grin

Bwaaaaaaaaaaa...

Just my opinon...

Jeff


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1014 times:

Maybe the GOP will sent them to fight a war based on lies

Better to fight a war and have some people accuse them of lying, than to bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is fine.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1012 times:

Is bashing clinton all you got?

Yes I think.


Better to kill thousands of innocents and hundred of US troops? Yes?



Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 999 times:

No, just one I enjoy..

Jeff


User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 996 times:

David b., is it time for your nap?

Anyway, this is simply outrageous. No person entering the country illegally should ever be granted citizenship in the United States; other than Cubans, and those who are threatened politically. Rewarding crime (which is what illegal immigration is) is always bad idea. I knew Bush was weak on immigration, but this sucks big time. I really hope that someday, a person like Tom Tancredo gains a larger voice in American politics. The only way that we are going to stop hemmoraging tax payer money on immigrants is by militarizing the Mexican border. Again, to prevent myself from reading "You're a racist" comments, I have to include this line: I would welcome anyone in my country, as long as they did it through legal means.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 987 times:

Anyway, this is simply outrageous. No person entering the country illegally should ever be granted citizenship in the United States; other than Cubans, and those who are threatened politically.

Other than the Cubans? Can somebody explain the double standard we see in American immigration policy? Somebody can come here from Cuba and be an instant resident, yet if you are a starving, desperate person from, oh, say Guatemala, you're SOL?

If the Cuban community in South Florida would stop being so goddamn reactionary and militaristic, Fidel would have fallen long ago. The embargo, the hostile posture, even the Cuban refugee policy... they all help Fidel, not hurt him.

Josh, how would militarizing the border change anything that is happening now? Do you think illegal aliens should be summarily shot?

Maybe it's just that I'm a moderate Republican. To me, guys like Tom Tancredo are blinded by ideology.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 950 times:

I agree with DeltaSFO about the double standard. It's BS.

Now as for the topic of this post, all I can do is shake my head and label this issue as reason #487 not to vote for Bush again in November.

[Edited 2004-01-06 18:46:27]

User currently offlineJuanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 943 times:

The only way that we are going to stop hemmoraging tax payer money on immigrants is by militarizing the Mexican border.

----------------------------

Do you really think that a latin-american soldier member of the US Army (it looks that US Army is using them a lot) will ever shot an illegal immigrant that could be his cousin/son/brother/father/friend/neighbour.?

You shoot those comments and then ake why the rest of the world an even some of you have started to compare your leader with Hitler

Juan
Bogota


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 940 times:

Can we say politics anyone? 4 million potential voters in 5 years.

Plus, remember that Bush and Vicente Fox have a close rapport, and that a potential immigration deal has always been part of the equation.

This change is similar to the 1986 Amnesty program that was cooked up to provide a way to amnesty Irish illegal aliens (predominantly in the Boston area, courtesy of Ted Kennedy et al). There were about 40,000 illegal Irish immigrants in the Northeast at the time, they were mostly working and supporting themselves, and they were a potential vote bank. However, as Ireland has become a wealthier nation over the past 18 years, the number of illegal Irish immigrants is down, and the Irish can virtually count on obtaining a green card through the immigration lottery.



User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 934 times:

Do you really think that a latin-american soldier member of the US Army (it looks that US Army is using them a lot) will ever shot an illegal immigrant that could be his cousin/son/brother/father/friend/neighbour.?

Sure, why wouldn't he/she? It would boil down to following an order, or going to the brig.... If not, we will put them on the Canadian border.

Simple, yet effective...


User currently offlineJuanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 927 times:

"Sure, why wouldn't he/she? It would boil down to following an order, or going to the brig.... If not, we will put them on the Canadian border."
--------------------

They would be happier to shoot the one that sent the order, I see you know very little of Latin American culture and values. Just beacuse they are members of the US Army it doesn´t mean they are not latinos anymore. Anyway, I do not think any Commander of the US Army would be so stupid to order shoot defenseless, starved immigants. Bu the way, some guys in Mexico-Arizona border had found a new sport, shooting immigrants, just for fun, it reminds me of some scenes of the movie "Schindler's List".


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 919 times:

Well, it's a moot point. The military would never be ordered to shoot illegal aliens. I only raise it as an arguing point. The purpose of the military is to fight wars, not police the borders.

I know there are a lot of people, especially in the border states, that believe we should put the military on the border. But to me, it just makes no sense. The Border Patrol, believe it or not, is better equipped to monitor our borders and protect them from illegal aliens. Problem is they're outnumbered. Way outnumbered.

Jcs17 and I have been through this argument a couple of times in the past. It wasn't always civil.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6659 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 911 times:

Although the convenient timing indicates a certain degree of political motivation behind it,the issue has been in the pipe line for ages-Sep11 postponed it to some extent.
All the same,it's a smart move by Bush.I'm sure the Democrats would have done the same in the circumstances.


User currently offlineNorth County From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 909 times:


Guest Worker programs are great - They are legal, monitored worker programs. The Growers have to supply proper housing and medical care. The workers pay taxes and when their time in the program is up the go home or renew.

The programs don't allow families to follow so you don't have the drain on public services that illegal immigration does...Hospital, school, welfare, public transportation and police matters.

The most important issue is that is is LEGAL!


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 896 times:

The most important issue is that is is LEGAL


EXACTLY.

Why do so many people not want to see the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL?


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 890 times:

Its politics. Four million Mexican-American voters added to Karl Rove's vote banks will wipe out any supposed Latino advantage the Dems have.

The difference between legal and illegal rests on a stroke of the pen.

As a legal immigrant to the US, it rankles me that some people can just waltz in, but Mexico as a border country has a special geopolitical relationship with the US. Like it or hate it, its a political reality.


User currently offlineN6376m From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 884 times:

Adding to Jay's point, it's not just that it 4M votes, it's votes in CA that put that state "in play". If the Dem's don't win CA and its electoral votes, nothing else matters.

Though I haven't researched it, I wonder how many times a Democrat has won the White House without carrying California. Anyone know?


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