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India - Pakistan Peace Talks  
User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1953 times:

India and Pakistan will hold peace talks for the first time ever. The history making talks will be held next month.

I can tell you myself being from India, I am extremely happy to hear the news. Let's hope the two countries can work Kashmir and terrorisom out and be friends. Together India and Pakistan can make South Asia and very powerful part of the world.

Farhan Ali
Seattle, USA

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 48
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1925 times:

Don't worry. In the end, nothing will change.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1922 times:

Together India and Pakistan can make South Asia and very powerful part of the world.

Wonderful? With >95% of their populations in blinding abject poverty?

India & Pakistan could become the absolute best of friends & allies....and the horrific poverty would still carry on.

India is slowly building a dynamic mercantile class & middle class....with or without peace with Pakistan.


[Edited 2004-01-06 17:35:01]


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1917 times:

United777 - I think it is about time. Vajpayee has proven himself as a leader par exemplar, and there is no doubt as to the unseen US hand in pushing Pakistan to the table. However, there is also yet another underlying phenomenon that is pushing India and Pakistan to the table, especially India. The old canards of power and prestige through military might that the old socialist guard saw as a worthy goal have gone by the wayside. For the first time since independence we see a change in India where both the government and the people see the creation of economic wealth as a worthy goal. The Gandhian-Nehruvian model with its hollow military arsenals were just a massive waste of money. If even 10% of what India and Pakistan spend on the military is diverted to infrastructural development, the changes will be extraordinary.

"Together India and Pakistan can make South Asia and very powerful part of the world."

I assume you mean an economic powerhouse.


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

Vajpayee is trying to occupy the statesmans chair here. Last time also conveniently before the elections he rode a bus to Lahore to "make peace". The peace lasted a few months and then the Pakistanis obliged Vajpayee by giving hi a stellar oportunity to show his "leadership" in Kargil.

Time for another conveniently time little war that will help Vajpayee coast through another election and help Musharraf stop the people fighting him.

So where is peace right now?

-Roy


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

Jesus Roy, put a sock in it.

Vajpayee has done a darn sight more for India this year alone (and its only 7 days old) than your favorite "bahu" Sonia has in her lifetime.



User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1865 times:

And who told you that Sonia is "my favorite bahu".

Not supporting Vajpayee doesnt mean supporting Sonia!

This is just a pre-election stunt designed to show Vajpayee as a "Man of Peace" who tried hard to make peace with Paksitan and failed.

BTW, Bets are open on when the mini-war between India and Pakistan will begin. Conveniently timed to ensure that Vajpayee coasts to victory.

We saw this once before! The Lahore summit followed by Kargil!

-Roy


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2175 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

Its the dude in the hot seat in Pakistan who's responsible for Kargil, not Vajpayee. Unless your latest conspiracy theory is that Vajpayee hatched the Kargil plan with Musharraf when he was in Lahore for the smoochathon with Nawaz Sharif.


India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1851 times:

No conspiracy theories BarfBag! My question is why now? 5 months before an election? Why didnt he make peace moves all this while.

Musharraf has not backed down one bit from the statements he made last Jan. But Vajpayee has completely backed down from all the positions he took after the Parliament attack. WHY? And the timing is extremely suspicious coming as it does just months before the elections.

As for the cheap attacks on Sonia, the Sonia vs Atal campaign may well backfire as the congress is preparing its own "54 vs 79 campain". A 54 year old "dynamic, energetic" lady who personally campaigned in ALL the constituencies vs a tired old alcoholic who can barely walk without help.

-Roy


User currently offlineIndianFlyboy From India, joined Sep 2003, 294 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1833 times:

What has been achieved by all the action over the last couple of weeks is the pre-parliamentary attack status . Nothing new. What makes this interesting is the way it was done , finally India and Pak agree on something if not Kashmir atleast the economy( Atleast thats what the media says , I have no figures for the business between the 2) . The additional packages which came along was the ceasefire , which I find is an extremely promising step. The second thing which came out of all this is the fact that Pakistan , atleast on paper, has agreed to root out the camps on their territory ,dont know how much of it will be done , but atleast they agreed.
It may be an election stunt , it may not , but the fact still remains that what was done was done very efficiently . Its not everyday that the president of Pakistan commends the Indian PM on his statesmanship and vision.

Indianguy , the alcoholic who could not walk did lead his party to victory in the state elections in 3 states and unfortunately left the lady who personally campaigned in his dust. No wonder the congress is still trying to figure out what the hell went wrong. Guess they cannot figure out how an alcoholic non walker could outrun and outclass an energetic lady.

We can only hope for the best but my personal opinion is to give credit to a person who deserves it , whatever Vajpayee may have done , election stunt or otherwise , seems to be making headway and he definitely deserves credit for it. lets just keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best , whoi knows we might just turn up as another economic superpower.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1834 times:

A 54 year old "dynamic, energetic" lady who personally campaigned in ALL the constituencies

I guess as an Italian she was able to take advantage of IC's "Visit India" unlimited flight pass for tourists! Big grin


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1824 times:

79 or not, Vajpayee is once again the only Indian politician who commands an all-India following as well as being one of the few Indian politicians who has an international presence. In effect, the BJP (Narendra Modi thuggism aside) has played its economic cards well in the face of rampant opposition from the far right Hindu wing of the party. Whats more, at least the BJP has created a host of alternative leaders to the Congress Nehru dynastic mess.

"I guess as an Italian she was able to take advantage of IC's "Visit India" unlimited flight pass for tourists!"

Ouch ! Thats a bit harsh isn't it? Sonia is after all an Indian national, and speaks Hindi better than virtually anyone in Mumbai (especially the Bandra-PaliHill- Malabar Hill zone). Lets give the woman some credit ! And she looks better in a sari than any of the BJP aunty-jis and mummy-jis do  Smile. Frankly, what the woman should do is open up a chain of good pizza outlets in India. Sorry, but Dominos just doesn't cut it !!


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2175 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1824 times:

No conspiracy theories BarfBag! My question is why now? 5 months before an election? Why didnt he make peace moves all this while.

There isn't much to read into the timing besides your own innuendo. After Dec 2001 and the standoff, it takes a while to build up behind-the-scenes talks to the level that Vajpayee and Mush could meet openly without slippers flying either way.

I don't see what the whole fuss is about. Its been acknowledged that a lot happened in the past few months quietly before the SAARC summit brought about what it did. It takes time. If you'd rather be suspicious the BJP did it with an eye on the polls, my question is, why can't they ? They are a *political party*. Your assumption that the present talks will lead to another Kargil is just that - an assumption.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13797 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 1815 times:

Couldn´t it be that just having closely survived two attempts to kill him, Musharaff might want to better the relations with India, so that he can concentrate on the fanatics in the western parts of his country? Imagine India and Pakistan could come to some accord concerning Kashmir, he could pull troops from the the border to India and use them against the people who tried to kill him?

Jan


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 1813 times:

Musharaff needs the support of US - and Indian - intelligence just to stay in power. He isn't right wing enough for the mullahs and the ISI, and I suspect he knows that the US will launch a preemptive strike against Pakistani nuclear targets if needed. Mush needs a peace accord with India just to stay in power. India is better off with Mush than some lunatic culled from the ranks of the ISI-Islamofanatic cadre.

User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1800 times:


I guess as an Italian she was able to take advantage of IC's "Visit India" unlimited flight pass for tourists!

I guess "some people" dont need to be "Italian" or need any "Visit India" schemes to take free junkets at their discretion on the national carriers! Family connections help get them into an AI jumbo after which they can bitch about "old India"! These are the people who are "old India" themselves!

Here we have someone who repeatedly claims to "know both worlds" in his own words. But it is amply clear that people like him are still so stuck up in their Pali Hill world that they are as distanced from "the other India" as they ever were.

And repeatedly bitching about Sonia is pointless. The Congress talks of the future. The BJP types dwell on the past. "Oh it was so bad, its sad!" before jumping on to an AI jumbo (on a free ticket, courtesy papa) and flying off to New York!

-Roy


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1794 times:

"The Congress talks of the future. The BJP types dwell on the past."

Hindutva bunk aside, whats the BJP focus on the past? The new mid-term budget looks pretty progressive and forward thinking. But it may just be Mssrs. Jaswant Singh and Arun Shourie. Or it may just be a by-product of the good monsoon.

I am curious to know what the Congress economic platform is in comparison to the BJP, which so far has appeared to have done a pretty good job.


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

Second times the charm, but once again I would ask: Vajpayee has completely backed down from all the positions he took after the Parliament attack. WHY? He was the one who made loud noises about “Nirnayak Yudh”, sent a million troops to the border,and one crack of the whip from America and he was whimpering home like a coward. Pakistan did not back down ONE BIT from the position they took then, but Vajpayee has COMPLETELY backtracked. Another example of his “Geet Naya Likhta Hoon phir usko mitata hoon” attitude. How many times before have we seen this kind of flip-flop from this incompetent boob?


Hindutva bunk aside, whats the BJP focus on the past? The new mid-term budget looks pretty progressive and forward thinking

Ask any BJP wallah as to why the power situation is so bad TODAY and they will instantly point to the mishandling for the past 55 years and other such bunk. Well the fact that power reforms were started by a Congress Govt 15 years before (which have now been run into the grund by te BJP) doesnt seem to matter. Any problems are the fault of the Congress and any benefits that come from Liberalisation are because of the BJP.

Even when they talk of the Congress they talk of what it WAS 35 years ago and use THAT as a reference to bash, not what it is today. In any case their constant invocations of Hindutva and a rabid manisfestation of it is enough of "past" anwyay.

What is the Congress take on economics? The COngress believes in taking liberalisation to the next level placing larger emphasis on Manufacturing. The COngress also believes in concentrating more on Social Indices like Health and Education and leaving Business to professionals. The Govt has no business running airlines and hotel chains and travel agencies. So the emphasis is on a lean-mean government that works with NGO's on improving Social Parameters while providing the framework to allow private capital and entrepeneurs to develop our industry and commerce.

Most importantly, the Congress governs in a Secular Framework, meaning that there would be no place for anti-nationals like Togadia in India. So he better opack his bags and move back to the US!


Indianguy, the alcoholic who could not walk did lead his party to victory in the state elections in 3 states and unfortunately left the lady who personally campaigned in his dust. No wonder the congress is still trying to figure out what the hell went wrong. Guess they cannot figure out how an alcoholic non walker could outrun and outclass an energetic lady.

Before the state elections, The BJP itself said that results of the state elections did not reflect on Vajpayee or his Govt. After the victory in 3 states their tune has changed somewhat!

The Congress failed to match the media blitzkrieg put up by the BJP. Also the COngress was hampered by lack of allies while the BJP had support of parties like Samata and even the SP! All that has changed. The Working Committees have been reconstituted and more dynamic youngsters are being inducted. A media campaign is being planned and put into action. And if the congress decides to raise the issue of how Vajpayees foster son managed to acquire 2 dozen hotels in the past 5 years, and the corrupt deals between Advani’s daughter and certain media houses, things should get even more interesting! And Pramod Mahajan’s tales of corruption would require more a library and not just a White Paper!

Lets face it, The Congress of today is a very different political animal while the BJP has metamorphosed into a grotesque version of yesterdays Congress.

Vajpayee has every reason to be worried. Last elections he had all the allies. This election most have deserted him and are flocking to the Congress. Take a look at the long list of allies who have deserted the communal NDA: The National Conference in Kashmir, the Dravidian block led by Karunanidhi in TN even the Bengali tigress Mamata who is planning to leave by this month end! The NCP has also refused to ally with the BJP. One key factor that the congress-bashers forget is that Sonia has herself said umpteen times and especially in her talks with allies now, is that the question is not of her becoming PM. Only a person acceptable to the Secular Coalition will become PM. And there are other leaders in the Congress who can take on that responsibility. Manmohan Singh, Shiela Dixit and others. Last time the secular forces did not fight together and even fought against each other benefiting the BJP. This time they have gotten together. What is important now is to get together, form a common programme and fight the communal BJP together.

Congress faced the anti-incumbency factor the last time in the 3 states. Now the shoe is on the other foot. See the desperate sops handed out by the NDA govt yesterday? They were drafted and handed out in a hurry before the EC steps in to stop the goodies from being handed out. It shows the fear, the desperation within the BJP. The so called peace deal is all hogwash! This is merely an attempt to put another fake feather in Vajpayees cap before showing his face to the electorate.

BTW, bets are still open on how long this Peace is going to last and when another “Operation Parakram” will start!



User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 375 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1781 times:

The best solution is to allow Kashmir to become an indepent new country, because I'm in no favour of any kind of war for any purpose, we the ordinary people will suffer due to the ego and arrogance of two leaders and their cronies.


.....up there with the best!
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1770 times:

"COngress also believes in concentrating more on Social Indices like Health and Education and leaving Business to professionals. The Govt has no business running airlines and hotel chains and travel agencies. So the emphasis is on a lean-mean government that works with NGO's on improving Social Parameters while providing the framework to allow private capital and entrepeneurs to develop our industry and commerce."

Sounds good. But hardly a platform that will bring in votes in Jharkhand District No. 778.

Btw, how does Sharad 10% Pawar fit into all of this? King maker? Crook par exemplar?


User currently offlineKilavoud From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1765 times:

West and East Germany have soldered together again.

Why shouldn't India and Pakistan do the same ?

The British have decided to separate India in two countries, and many families have suffered of this splitting.

Are the British still ruling in South India ?

I think it would be intelligent to solder two nations who are feeling the same way : India and Pakistan. Such a reunification would cock a snook at there Age-Old Rulers and solve many problems.

Cheers. Kilavoud.


User currently offlineKilavoud From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1763 times:

West and East Germany have soldered together again.

Why shouldn't India and Pakistan do the same ?

The British have decided to separate India in two countries, and many families have suffered of this splitting.

Are the British still ruling in South Asia ?

I think it would be intelligent to solder two nations who are feeling the same way : India and Pakistan. Such a reunification would cock a snook at there Age-Old Rulers and solve many problems.

Cheers. Kilavoud.


User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 375 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1768 times:

I dont think anyone is aiming for reunification, and no Pakistani wants it for sure.


.....up there with the best!
User currently offlineKilavoud From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1758 times:

Airmale. Ok I understand. I was thinking so because I remember the talk I had once with an Indian Lady flying from Francfort to Bombay, of Pharsy culture or language. She was living in the Canary Islands and came to India to buy some gold for the marriage of her daughter. She told me that her own family have suffered from the splitting India-Pakistan.

I am living both in Switzerland and southern India and must confess that my suggestion was maybe very hypothetical. But who knows really the future ?

Cheers. Kilavoud.





User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1752 times:

India is an inclusive society that seeks to provide a secular home to all religions. As such, there would be no problem with welcoming Pakistan into the fold. Pakistan on the other hand is built on the concept of being an Islamic state for South Asia. It tolerates but does not welcome other religions. For Pakistan to merge into a secular India would mean the complete loss of its Islamic majority identity.

As such, this could never happen.


25 Kilavoud : B747-437B Thank you for your explanation. Yes both countries have now got their own cultures and strong national identities. Let us wait and see what
26 Indianguy : Btw, how does Sharad 10% Pawar fit into all of this? King maker? Crook par exemplar? Sharad Pawar could be given a position in the Secular Coalitio Go
27 Airmale : It would be better to nuke each other then let that happen, in this case I'm all for war.
28 KHI747 : The comments by this indian is funny because last week i was reading some comments by Baloch tribal leaders and they said had they shared a border wit
29 Yyz717 : all provinces in Pakistan are very united and separation is not only unthinkable but not seeked by anyone in Pakistan If India continues to boom and g
30 B747-437B : all provinces in Pakistan are very united and separation is not only unthinkable but not seeked by anyone in Pakistan They said the same about Mujib i
31 Jaysit : "India must also support the cause of the Sindhi's and Baluchi people and at a suitable time and place seek to liberate them from their Punjabi master
32 Indianguy : Besides, if Sindhis in India made themselves into one of the most prosperous ethnic communities anywhere in the world (after losing virtually everyth
33 DeltaSFO : It is India's interests to keep the pot boiling for our dear neighbour. Repay them back in their coin. No Not with terror, but with economic muscle. A
34 Indianguy : Dear DeltaSFO: I do not adovcate invading and occupyng a country 10000 miles away. I do not advocate turning Pakistan into a colony. Criticiim of Amer
35 DeltaSFO : Dear DeltaSFO: I do not adovcate invading and occupyng a country 10000 miles away. I do not advocate turning Pakistan into a colony. Criticiim of Amer
36 Indianguy : Tackling an enemy that is hell bent on creating trouble and occupying the country to grab its resources are quite different things DeltaSFO! Ever chec
37 KHI747 : As for Baluchistan, they have never really considered themselves Pakistani and consider themselves more "Afghan" anyway I would suggest that you stop
38 Post contains links Indianguy : KHI747: Stop being a "fool" and take a look at some news clips: http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jul/14guru.htm http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webne
39 Post contains links Indianguy : KHI747: Stop being a "fool" and take a look at some news clips: http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jul/14guru.htm http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webne
40 KHI747 : You can continue to enjoy whatever indian tabloids you read back home but im amused by your insistance on something you obviously dont know much about
41 Jaysit : Farid Zakaria has a good article on the Indo-Pak peace talks in the latest Newsweek. I suggest you read it. And give the Sindhi liberation bit a rest.
42 DeltaSFO : Tackling an enemy that is hell bent on creating trouble and occupying the country to grab its resources are quite different things DeltaSFO! Ever chec
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