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War In Iraq An Error According To US Army Expert  
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2440 times:

Not that we really needed the advice of an Army expert to be convinced, but I'm sure glad my opinion is backed by such a great expert.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8435-2004Jan11.html


Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

You can blame Clinton. He cut the military back too much.

User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

Big difference in an "Army Expert" and a visiting professor @ the Army War College. He is a civilian, not a military man. He is also a former staffer for several Democrat members of the Senate. I smell an agenda.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2378 times:

"He cut the military back too much"
your country spends over 400 billions a year on military stuff and the department of energy(nukes etc). compare that with the amount your country pays for social and educational issues, and someone might argue that there ought to be a bigger cut then what clinton did in favour of social and educational areas.

clinton era:

U.S. military budget in 2000 was $288.8 billion


bush era:

U.S. military budget request for Fiscal Year 2004 is $399.1 billion (more then 15% higher then the avg. cold war budget adjusted for todays dollar)

The total budget request for discretionary spending is $782 billion, 51% of which is the military budget -- $399 billion($379.9 billion for the Defense Department and $19.3 billion for the nuclear weapons functions of the Department of Energy)
The next two largest items are education and health, getting $55 bn and $49 bn (7% and 6.3% of discretionary budget) respectively.

the bush administration plans to increase the budget to over $500 bn by FY09.


and you say he cut it back too much?
i'd say he had a realistic military budget. not too high, not too low. and it was beneficial to the next generation aswell, since he had a budget surplus and not a $300+bn annual debt.
imagine the public education and health system quality in the u.s. if bush would take the military back to 300bn and DOUBLE the funding for health and education. of course quality for most people would skyrocket, but since fox and cnn wouldnt have the good embedded footage of "countries we cant find on the map but wage war against for reasons we dont know" it is really not worth it. after all the shareholder value of general dynamics and lockheed martin are more important then the quality of the daily life of avg joe who might enjoy great education and free firstclass healthcare instead of the newest 1 million dollar cruise missle in the arsenal down the block.






10=2
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2365 times:

I blame bush for a war to settle his personal vendetta.


Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13741 posts, RR: 61
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2362 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

free firstclass healthcare

Wrong movie, Tonto. We don't show that one here.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8763 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2358 times:

"You can blame Clinton. He cut the military back too much."

Looks like you can blame Clinton for just about anything, huh?  Insane



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Well, if Gore invented the internet, then Clinton did invented adultery. Quite convinient.  Yeah sure


The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2355 times:

What would the republicans do without Clinton ? Bush is an arrogant air head. The people that pull Dubya's stings are the ones that put Dubya up to invading Iraq..... For their oil interests. No other reason. That's why we are there. That's the truth deal with it.......


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2348 times:

Yup, I pretty much do blame Clinton, the facts speak for themself.

Deal with it...


User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2344 times:

So is Dubya off the hook then ??? Because it was Clintons fault ???


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Well, it has shown that the US helicopters are vulnerable, basically same story
as Somalia.



User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2330 times:

You can blame Clinton. He cut the military back too much.

Very funny. How much are you willing to pay for the military ? Do you know that your country has reach a record in debt thanx to Bush and his military budget ?


He is a civilian, not a military man.

Bush is also a civilian.


User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

He is a civilian, not a military man.

In a democracy - and last time I checked the USA was still a democracy - civilians control the militaries, not the other way around. So it is just freaking right that a civilian be allowed to take a critical look at the military affairs. A real democracy never let the militaries run their own business.

And, as underlined by Sebolino, all the men who are leading this war (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz et al) are civilians, aren't they? Even more, Bush is such a civilian that he dodged the Viet-Nam draft, didn't he?



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Qb001,

Check again, your sources are wrong. The U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy.


User currently offlineCorocks From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2316 times:

Nobody is questioning a civilians right to question military strategy, but his ability to do so. He is not relevant to all the information that probably needs to be considered. The article also states that he has critisized moves by Clinton as well.

Clinton did not have to face the terrorism issues that we have post 9/11. He probably would not have cut the budget back so much either if it had happened in his term.


User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2310 times:

I agree JeffM, since the 2000 presidential elections the US has drifted a long way away from being a "Democracy"


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

Check again, your sources are wrong. The U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy

This one again? The whole Bush administration regularly refers to it as a democracy, in countless speeches, press releases &c.

What we need is better quality pedantry.



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

DC10...

I agree. The Democrats raped the legal system in 2000. Something we don't want to see again. You don't change the rules in the middle of an election...glad you brought that point up. 'Some' people seem to need a reminder...

Bob,

You "need" a lot of things ...

Democracy is the process....how hard is this? You guys surely seem to struggle a lot with the concept lately don't you? What is the problem?


User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

The only person who can screw the US and the world this much is GWB.

No other man can do such a thing. We dont want to see this again for a looooooooonnnnnggggggg time.



Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

Democracy is the process....how hard is this? You guys surely seem to struggle a lot with the concept lately don't you? What is the problem?

Yes, I'm really struggling. Bush seems to be, too:
It is no accident that the rise of so many democracies took place in a time when the world's most influential nation was itself a democracy

A democracy. Noun. Perhaps he had trouble with the long words.

As I said, we need better quality pedantry.

Want to return to the facts?



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

JeffM, Its a system worth dying in Iraq for ah ???


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2267 times:

OK then........500 servicemen to this day have died. Are their families free because we overthrew Saddam?

I don't think so........
who do you believe can save the world?  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up Freaken hilarious  Big thumbs up

And no, Bush can not and will not save the world.




Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2243 times:

Nobody is questioning a civilians right to question military strategy, but his ability to do so. He is not relevant to all the information that probably needs to be considered.

If the author is so incompetent, or irrelevant, in terms of military affairs, why is he invited to work for the Army War College? Logically, if he's incompetent and works for the Army War College, it means this institution as a whole is probably incompetent as well. Then, since most army top brass go through this college, it means the entire US Army is incompetent, right?

I think it's rather those Bush die-hard supporters who are clearly incompetent and irrelevant here.

Speaking of irrelevancy, we were given a chance to read this gem:
The U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy.

And your point is?????

Just a quick reminder: China is a republic and not a democracy. UK is a monarchy AND a democracy.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2237 times:

If the author is so incompetent, or irrelevant, in terms of military affairs, why is he invited to work for the Army War College? Logically, if he's incompetent and works for the Army War College, it means this institution as a whole is probably incompetent as well. Then, since most army top brass go through this college, it means the entire US Army is incompetent, right?

That's stretching logic a little too far.  Big grin



Cunning linguist
25 Alpha 1 : Great, now the war, somehow is Clinton's fault. Tell me, JeffM, is Clinton also responsible for world hunger? The high divorce rate? The high failure
26 777236ER : for our continued freedom jack.. Wouldn't that mean that Iraq was a direct threat to the freedom of the US? I suppose the only way it was is that the
27 Sebolino : Check again, your sources are wrong. The U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy. Jeff, I'm afraid you have a problem of vocabulary. Republic is a type of
28 TWISTEDWHISPER : This is ridiculous. Why are you referring to America as the country of freedom??? Is there any country (in the west) that is so strict on what you can
29 JeffM : Surely you don't think Clinton or Bush was responsible for all that stuff do you Alpha? I don't. I don't "blame" as you put it, any president for that
30 Startvalve : Any quack with too many degrees can declare himself an "army expert" and work for a "think tank" and write "books" nobody "reads". Since I started rea
31 L-188 : I personally would have waited until the second term. But I do feel that in the current world situation the decision to cut the Army from 18 to 10 div
32 Startvalve : Another thing to consider. This guy is a visiting professor. To me that means he has no real job, probably some worthless degree like History or Philo
33 JeffM : People like that "expert" are needed in those think tanks.... What ever reason he had for making the statements he did I sure were justified in his mi
34 Aaron747 : As evidenced by some comments in this thread, it's quite possible the average American's reading comprehension has reached an all-time low.
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