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SCO Group Sees Capitalism In Danger To Open Source  
User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1374 times:

i think some companies really take it too far. they went from a crappy linux distributor to microsofts weapon against open source.
the topic refers to this letter here:

http://www.osaia.org/letters/sco_hill.pdf


i think open source is one of the best offsprings the internet had, along with the free flow of information that people can have across the globe.

edited to make link clickable

[Edited 2004-01-22 12:56:54]


10=2
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1369 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1360 times:

Each Open Source installation displaces or pre-empts a sale of proprietary, licensable and copyright-protected software. This means fewer jobs, less software revenue, and reduced incentives for software companies to innovate (p. 2)

Yet another case of people only looking at one side of the story. Yes, it may cost a few jobs in the software-producing industry, but imagine how much money open-source software saves organizations, and thus allows them to expand employment. If we were forced to buy bottled air in order to breathe, that would create plenty of jobs in the air-bottling industry, but no one would argue that society as a whole would be better off. When you take something that's free and slap a price tag on it, society loses.

IF Linux contains proprietary code from UNIX, and other intellectual property has been incorporated into open-source software, I think SCO has a valid complaint, but you can't sue to stop people from giving things away! Open-source is a reaction of a free marketplace to Microsoft's hegemony, real or perceived, and is pushing Microsoft to innovate. Competition is a good thing.

--B2707SST



Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1355 times:

I have no special feelings one way or another concerning Open Source. But what is important is business is standardization. You want to make sure that an excel or word document that you send to a supplier or client can be opened by him. When your auditors come to see you once a year, they need to be able to set themselves up in an office and be able to plug into your network. A game developed for a certain kind of operating system should be able to have the widest audience possible without having to re-write the code for 20 different environments. That is the advantage of having standard platforms and software.

Charles


User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1344 times:

That is the advantage of having standard platforms and software.

True. But there is a problem when the standard platforms and software are owned by a private company. And that's the problem with Microsoft, which owned Windows.

Microsoft had developed some standards that it has offered to the world, such as XML for instance, but this is mainly to show good face.

Mostly, MS has tried to modify standards to its own advantage, such as HTML or even Java, which is offered freely by SUN.

Open sources is no more a threat to the economy than free access to radio stations is. It's just a different business model, that is based on free flow of information.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1342 times:

Each Open Source installation displaces or pre-empts a sale of proprietary, licensable and copyright-protected software. This means fewer jobs, less software revenue, and reduced incentives for software companies to innovate

Let's assume that there are two possible commercial transactions (all other things being equal).
1: User buys OS software
2: User buys CS software, with extra overheads for licensing, intellectual property management, obfuscation, whatever.

Which transaction creates most value?



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1341 times:

But there is a problem when the standard platforms and software are owned by a private company. And that's the problem with Microsoft, which owned Windows.

I don't see the point of this (and I hear it a lot). Surely you are not saying that Windows might be better-accepted if it was state-owned. If MS was state owned, you would soon see laws banning other companies (bye-bye Linux).

I don't know if Canada ever had state-owned telephone monopolies, like we had in Europe. Here in Switzerland, in 1990, a one hour phone call to the U.S. would cost about 100 Francs to Swisscom - the state monopoly. Now that the same call will cost only 6 Francs, since competitors were allowed in a few years ago. And that is before inflation is taken into account.

State-owned monopolies do not "protect the consumer from vicious private companies". They are simply another way of raising state revenue.

I think Windows is an amazing product. It has more functioning parts than an aircraft carrier, and costs a hell of a lot less to maintain. I can't really think of anything that I want it to do that it does not allow me to do on a PC, if properly configured. And nobody is preventing anyone else from developing a competing product - witness Linux. IBM tried hard with OS/2, but it sucked, and rightfully bombed. Of course, any competitor will have to play catch-up, as Windows XP is the result of some 15 years of evolving experience with Windows.

That said, if somebody wants to make a better operating system, I'm all for it, and I'll buy it if it is truely better.

Charles


User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1339 times:

Surely you are not saying that Windows might be better-accepted if it was state-owned.

You read wayyyyyyy much more into what I wrote than what I meant.

I believe major IT technologies should be developed according to open, public, agreed to standards. TCP/IP protocol, that is used to carry the bits and bytes that form this content on your screen, is a good example. MS doesn't own that standard, but can use it. And the same can be said for any IT company in the world. The openness of that technology levels the playing field and that's when us, as consumers, benefit from competition.

And as for state-owned monopolies versus open market, for each successful market opening (such as the one you refer to, although we don't have all the facts), there is an equally bad experiment, such as what happened in Ontario when the conservative government decided to open the distribution of electricity to multiple companies. So, let's not get into that...



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1338 times:

" if somebody wants to make a better operating system, I'm all for it, and I'll buy it if it is truely better. "

it exists and its free :P



10=2
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1333 times:

You get what you pay for...

The only things I know are free on computers is viruses and spam mail.

Charles

[Edited 2004-01-22 19:38:21]

User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

the best way to "try before buy" would be knoppix linux.

1. download the cd for free
2. burn it
3. reboot your computer with the cd in the drive
4. the computer will boot to a working linux straight from cd, without touching anything on your harddisk

of course it is only a mere display of its capabilities when you install specialized drivers instead of generic ones etc, but it is nevertheless a nice thing to test for people not used to it.

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html#description
has a basic overview
ftp://slugsite.louisville.edu/knoppix/KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19-EN.iso
is a link to a u.s. mirror with the english version of the most up to date image



10=2
User currently offlineCsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1362 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

At first I thought the letter was a goof.

It sounds like he is not only railing against Linux's presumed copyright infringement against Unix, but anybody anywhere deciding to give away his intellectual property under GPL if he or she so chooses. Wow!!! So the government will tell you how and why and when you can not charge for software.
This is cracked, but no doubt the idiots in congress, since the letter touches on National Security - love the wily North Korean hacker - and the outflow of tech jobs to Bangalore (like SCO wouldn't or hasn't already done that) will pass something utterly ill-advised.

I want whatever the letter writer was smoking.



I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3190 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1300 times:

The advantages of open source software (like Linux and FreeBSD) over closed source software (like SCO UnixWare and Windows) really come out when there is when a vunerability is found in the software. When the software is open source, the source code is out there for anyone to look over and find problems with. More importantly, anyone can fix the bug and release the fix (generally by submitting the fix back to the maintainers of the project). If you really don't want to wait, you can fix and recompile it yourself. However, with closed source software, you have to wait until the publisher gets around to making a change and releasing the patch.

And now, the less serious parts of my post.

Cfalk wrote:
That said, if somebody wants to make a better operating system, I'm all for it, and I'll buy it if it is truely better.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/
http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/index.html
http://www.openbsd.org/
http://www.freebsd.org/
http://www.linux.org/

And finally, getting back to SCO themselves, remember this:

"They are smoking crack." - Linus Torvalds

David / MRY


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