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Where Does All Of This Money Come From?!?!?!  
User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1367 times:

You know what I'm talking about guys!

Bush wants to "increase budget" for this and that, increase this by 55% and this by 300 million dollars a year - Quick question - WHERE DOES THIS MONEY COME FROM???

If we're in a deficit of 477 BILLION dollars, why increase anything at all?

Think about this - more needed money means inflation - quick inflation is bad... the only other possible way out is an increase in Taxes, also something we don't see happening...

So are we digging ourselves a 500 Billion dollar hole right now? or am I missing something very important here.

Quick note: DON'T TURN THIS INTO A REP vs. DEM WAR!!! thank you for your time.

Vitaly


I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1359 times:



User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1351 times:

Bush hasn't yet learned how to quit digging.

DLKAPA


User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1351 times:

JAL777 - maybe if you knew something other than how to post links or pictures, you'd actually argue your point, but being an ignorant person you are, you decide to put others down.

I asked a question, either contribute, or get the hell out...  Pissed

Vitaly



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1347 times:

I think the current Bush plan is just to keep borrowing until the deficit is paid off.

Did I miss something?

DLKAPA


User currently offlineStartvalve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1346 times:

Actually Vafi... JAL777 makes a very good point. Rather than giving you the knowledge he suggests you earn it by actually picking up a book on economics and figuring it out. Its the only thing that separates those of us with a brain from Democrats.

User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1345 times:

Can you not read Startvalve??? I asked 1) not to make this into a Rep vs Dem war, and 2) to give me an opinion about the president's actions in the economy, not the economy itself.

God, is it really that hard to read a few lines??



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1339 times:

As I am currently taking Econ, I have learned a few things about his well-meaning, though not well thought-out plan. The Idea is that if you cut the taxes, that puts money back in the hands of the consumer, who spends the money, causing it to go back into the economy, as the businesses then get richer, Then the tax can be increased on them, allowing more money to fall back into the hands of the government.

The only problem with this is the amount of time it takes to happen. A really long time, while the debt still accumulates, eventually causing bankruptcy unless the market rebounds.

A short-term tax hike would, in my own opinion, be much more desirable because it would quickly put money directly in the hands of the government, who could then pay off the debt quicker, rather than letting it accumulate.

DLKAPA


User currently offlineStartvalve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1335 times:

No I can't read Vafi, I just bang random characters on the keyboard until the spell checker stops bugging me.

User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1331 times:

Startvalve - my suspicions have been proven true... That rambling nonsense is pretty boring and thick. At least you spell right...


I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineIllini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

As I am currently taking Econ, I have learned a few things about his well-meaning, though not well thought-out plan. The Idea is that if you cut the taxes, that puts money back in the hands of the consumer, who spends the money, causing it to go back into the economy, as the businesses then get richer, Then the tax can be increased on them, allowing more money to fall back into the hands of the government.

The only problem with this is the amount of time it takes to happen. A really long time, while the debt still accumulates, eventually causing bankruptcy unless the market rebounds.

A short-term tax hike would, in my own opinion, be much more desirable because it would quickly put money directly in the hands of the government, who could then pay off the debt quicker, rather than letting it accumulate.


Close, very close, but not quite how trickle down economics works. Instead of later raising taxes on buisinesses once they "get richer", your revenue increases with the increase in tax base. Example- let's say your company's net profits are $100,000, and you're taxed at 35%- the government "makes" $35,000 off of you. Now let's say that there is a tax cut, now you're only being taxed at 25%, you now only pay $25,000 to the government, and take the $10 grand, and reinvest it back into your company. The next year, your profits are up- now your year-end profit is $150,000, but at 25%, you now pay $37,000 to the government. They lowered the rate, but take in more money. Of course, there's more- if you've hired more people in that year, because of your increased profits, that creates more jobs, and more people paying taxes, and more revenue for the government.

The problem with a short-term tax hike, especially in this economy, is that a tax increase takes money OUT of the economy, that will slow growth in the private sector both by limiting consumer spending (people have less money to spend) and slowing job growth (less consumer spending AND higher overhead with higher taxes) Those two effects would more than likely cancel out any increase in revenue from the higher tax rates, as you'd be taxing less money.

--
Mike



Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
User currently offlineB2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1369 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

The government finances deficits by borrowing from private financial markets. It does this by selling Treasury debt in the bond markets. The accumulated Treasury debt, called the national debt, is currently at $7 trillion. The government has to borrow an extra $1 billion a day just to cover the deficit. The problem is that the money spent is diverted from private uses. At this point, there's no overall economic impact. We've simply diverted private investment to government spending. Keep this in mind when you hear politicians tell you that the government "creates jobs," as if all we have to do is wave a magic wand (or flick the pen) and jobs come popping out of a hat.

As Mike mentioned, the argument for tax cuts, as opposed to more spending, is that tax cuts affect economic incentives: lower tax rates encourage people to work harder, open new businesses and expand existing business, save, invest, etc. There is substantial statistical evidence that lower taxes have a positive effect on the economy, and in some instances can pay for themselves over time, but it takes a while (the lag is thought to be a few years). In the meantime, we run up large deficits.

The alternative to deficit financing is to actually pay for government operations by printing new money. You are correct that this creates rapid inflation. Many Latin American countries, as well as Germany and Austria after World War I, tried this. The result is hyperinflation, which can be so bad that prices double every few days. Hyperinflation destroys entire economies, as Germany found out in the 1920s; Austria wised up, stopped printing money, and brought the inflation to a halt. In the US, the power to manipulate the money supply is delegated to the Federal Reserve, which is not subject to political constraints and (theoretically) can't be forced to monetize government debt.

I think the current Bush plan is just to keep borrowing until the deficit is paid off.

Unfortunately true. It's also the Democratic plan. See the "477 billion" thread for details.

--B2707SST

[Edited 2004-01-27 06:46:46]


Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

Vitaly,
We don't want to raise taxes. {see above post by Mike} Increasing the budget of one program often results in a lessening of another. We have a lot that should just be discontinued all together.

What would you suggest?


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1307 times:

Discontinued... Hmmm....

Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind act, etc...

DLKAPA


User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1302 times:

Jeff - I'm not implying that the people should be responsible for paying the government (hey, if you want less money from me, I'm fine), but investing millions and over time billions of dollars into something we can outdo without money is crazy... The education fund has risen by something like 45-55% while Bush was in office, but there's not 1 thing I have seen that made this coutry's education system better...

My idea personally, instead of putting billions of dollars into kids that do drugs (I saw a kid doing coke today - what a moron) and drop out, we might as well MAKE/FORCE them to finish, and the teachers to not baby us all of the freakin time. I'm willing to do work for my future, and I want this country's future to mirror my future (success at every level) , but if all we do is invest into kids that drop out and we have to make an ALTERNATE program for them, WHY???

If the little bastard doesn't want to learn, send him to the streets. I'm not saying college, just high school, what people do after high school is up to them.

Same thing with a lot of other industries - giving private companies the right to run medicate/medicare is absurd, the gov is taking blame because they don't feel like caring for the seniors, so to redirect blame, they'll put it into a private industry... what's the point?

Vitaly



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1295 times:

Vitaly, you want to see kids do drugs, come down to Ponderosa for a day. You might not see very much intake, but you will see many users. I have seen kids popping Oxy, Vicadin, Percodan, smoking Weed, Snorting god knows what (once I paid a kid to snort powdered food coloring), and an administration that is completely blind and ignorant to all this.

WE ARE PAYING THESE PEOPLE!!!  Angry

DLKAPA


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1291 times:

Well, inflation makes US products cheaper and is good for employment, downside is that it become more expensive to borrow money due to the fact
that the US credit grade goes down.


User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1290 times:

Ponderosa has a good Drumline though...

Yeah, I know about 4 or 5 kids that don't do anything... the rest are on all kinds of crap... Oh well, it's their life...



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1287 times:

Don't get me started on the sorry state our band program is in with our new director. He turned one of the best programs in the state to 6th best in finals when finals are judged out of 8. There used to be 150 kids in the program, now there are only 69. The drum instructor (the one that made the drumline good) finally saw what was going on and quit. I am in my senior year now, and I was in Band until sophomore year, the first year of the new director.

that our taxes paid for.

DLKAPA


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1286 times:

Vitaly,
Your idea about making or forcing a kid to finish school is not the job of government. It is impossible to enforce. It is the responsibility of parents to ensure kids learn the social skills needed to successfully make it through high school. What we do as a society, is to try and provide kids like you (that are making something out of themself), a place to do it, materials, and teachers. Your school district has a very, very strong and very, very costly union. A union fully supported by the Democratic party. If school districts did not have their hands tied by that union, many good things would be possible in education. Vouchers for instance.

I'm not sure what your saying about medicare/medicade....don't confuse them with private health insurance. And once again, you don't want the government providing health care. Private industry is what runs a market economy.


User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1278 times:

Jeff - At schools around the country, the age that you can drop out is 16. I think that's low... The government could pass legislature enforcing school procedures. Also, kids can take alternate programs (computer schooling, step down schooling for those who just don't want to do anything) I know some people that do both of those. People have potential, and unless you have something horrible (mental issues/disabled), you should be doing the standard...

Vitaly



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1277 times:

Actually did you know that if you are above 18 you still can't sign yourself out of school anymore? I found that one out the hard way.

DLKAPA


User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1271 times:

Yeah, but you didn't drop out...

I'm saying that people need to stay in school through their entire High school career (unless you have enough credits and graduate early).

Vitaly



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1269 times:

Vitaly,
Your putting yourself into the classic "Democratic Stereotype" regarding passing legislation.... more is not better.... enforce what we have first.

Eric, if your not smart enough to figure out how to get out of school.... you should stay in.


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1268 times:

I is learning up right good.

DLKAPA


25 Vafi88 : Jeff - how do you think we should improve our school system then??? Providing money isn't doing anything! I say keep people in school, and in check. I
26 DLKAPA : I think we should keep the option of dropping out at sixteen, that way they will learn very quickly why they should have stayed in school. Every time
27 Sebolino : Fact is JAL777 and Startvalve are unable to give arguments because there are none of them. Bush is making a big mistake, not for him personnaly, he do
28 JeffM : Vitaly, I agree, throwing money at the problem won't work, but that is a Democratic solution historically... Forcing kids to stay in school won't work
29 FDXmech : >>>The education fund has risen by something like 45-55% while Bush was in office, but there's not 1 thing I have seen that made this coutry's educati
30 Startvalve : Actually sebolino you need to grab a copy of an economics text book as well. There are arguments for it. See reply 10, that is exactly what is going o
31 Vafi88 : Wow, startvalve, smart... The thing is, you never read my post in the first place... I'm not blaming bush for the DRASTIC DOWNHILL (in this thread) wh
32 JeffM : O.k. So making a kid finish school artificially with a "D" average helps who? I'm not sure you understand the competition aspect of what I said, so I
33 Sebolino : The president himself has between little and nothing to do with this. Well, if you really think the Pdt is not responsible for the huge debt of your c
34 DLKAPA : Jeff, I think that is a good Idea. Purge the school of slackers and trouble makers, send them to DC Oaks, or Eagle, or somewhere like that, some drop
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