Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Vets Against Kerry  
User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 25
Posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1590 times:

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm

"On the campaign trail, Sen. John Forbes Kerry regularly mentions his Vietnam War combat experience, during which he received three Purple Hearts, the Silver Star and Bronze Star.
However, the Massachusetts Democrat doesn't like to talk much about how he received the awards or the time after he returned home when he was rubbing shoulders with Hanoi Jane Fonda as a much-celebrated organizer for Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), one of America's most radical pro-communist groups."



"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1542 times:

Link is dead.  Sad

< F I L L E R >


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1543 times:

Who cares? There are plenty of vets that are for him. Go look up Jim Rassman. Mr. Rassman is a registered Republican.

The guy is a lefty-- no doubt. But don't put him in same bucket with people like William J. Clinton et al who protested the war without ever going. Kerry came from wealth and privilege. Unlike Howard Dean and George Bush, Kerry signed up with the Navy after Yale and saw real combat. He could have taken the easy road but chose not to do so. Don't forget that Dick Cheney cowered during Vietnam. Kerry more than earned his right to protest against Vietnam or anything else.

If the Democrats nominate a clown like Dean, there is no chance I would consider voting Democratic. But if its Kerry, I may vote Democratic this time around simply because he bellied up the bar to defend our country unlike Bush or Cheney.



User currently offlineKYIPpilot From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1539 times:

Isn't Bush the one that cut some of the funding to Veterans groups and veterans hospitals?


"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1518 times:

What??? Cheney cut and ran TOO??? This just keeps getting worse and worse..

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

Don't forget how while protesting the war in Washington D.C., instead of sleeping outside with the other protesters, he stayed in a nice 5-Star hotel. He also claims to have thrown his medals over the White House fence. In reality they were medals he purchased. His own medals hang in his Senate office in D.C.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1503 times:

How did Dick Cheney cut and run during Vietnam.

Wasn't he an fiscal advisor for Nixon at the time?



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1501 times:

But don't put him in same bucket with people like William J. Clinton et al who protested the war without ever going.

3/4 of the country protested against, or were not in favor of the war. Why is that a big deal. And again, military service is not a requirment for being President of The United States.

But if military service for many is a measure of being a president, then Kerry has Bush beat hands down. It's not even a contest.


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1495 times:

B757300,

What difference does that make where he stayed during the protests? Since he had the cash, he stayed at a nice place.

He could have very, very easily avoided military service altogether using his family wealth but instead dove in head first and served admirably.

Why don't you criticize Cheney ever if your complaint is based on principle of some kind?

L-188,

If Cheney were ever a fiscal advisor of any kind, that is very frightening. Based on his remarks that "deficits don't matter", the guy either is incompetent or a liar.

Deficit spending is a legitimate tool in a sensible fiscal policy. President Bush and VP-Cheney have embarked on an absolutely reckless fiscal policy.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1488 times:

Why don't you criticize Cheney ever if your complaint is based on principle of some kind?

It isn't based on principal, it's based purely on party affiliation, nothing more. If it were based on principle, he would critisize Bush as much as Clinton, since both found a way to avoid going to war. Both legally stayed out of the war, but in his mind, only Clinton is the devil in this one.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1486 times:

Just looked it up on the commanding heights website.

His first government position was as special assistant to Donald Rumsfeld, director of the Office of Economic Opportunity, in 1969 and 1970. He next served as a White House staff assistant in 1970 and 1971 and as assistant director of the Cost of Living Council from 1971 to 1973

So yes he was one of Nixons economic advisors.

Now I admit that Nixon wasn't the greatest handler of the economy, mainly because he tried to implement price controls, which drove up inflation, kind of what the democrats want to emulate in regards to the canadian health care and drug system.

Based on his remarks that "deficits don't matter", the guy either is incompetent or a liar.

You also need to read up on John Manard Keynes economic theories. He proported that government should increase spendind, even run up deficits in economic downturns to stimulate the economy. At the time he was giving that advice to Roosevelt.

But it still works today, GW does seem to be going a bit overboard with it, but he came into office with a mismanaged and failing economy to deal with, and like it or not, we would have had a lot worse fall then we did because GW did two things.

1. Keep money from comming out of the economy through tax cuts.

2. Kept Greenspan around to keep interest rates low.


Frankly though I think Hayak was more on the ball with his free market aproach, but Keynes is abosolutely correct that the governement should inject money into the economy during slowdowns.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1482 times:

GW does seem to be going a bit overboard with it, but he came into office with a mismanaged and failing economy to deal with.....

(snicker). Yes, it was so mismanaged that it was just starting to come down from a 7 1/2 year run like the modern economy has never seen. Sure, that's mismanagement.

Mismanagement is offering up huge increases in spending, as GW is doing now, while at the same time, offering up huge reductions in the revenue the government is receiving because of tax breaks. Moderate increases wouldn't be too bad, but we're talking a $500 billion deficit next year. A half trillion! That's going WAY overboard. That's mismanagement. That's almost a malfescence of duty.


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

L-188,

Did you not read this sentence I wrote?:

"Deficit spending is a legitimate tool in a sensible fiscal policy."

I am familiar with Keynes. The Bush/Cheney second tax cut was not part of any sensible economic policy. It will provide little or neglible stimuls effect. They fired their O'Neill and Lindsey when they pointed this out to them.

Bottom line is that Dick really didn't want to go Vietnam and found a way out just like Slick Willy.

[Edited 2004-02-01 05:57:38]

User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1474 times:

Re:Cheney--His first government position was as special assistant to Donald Rumsfeld, director of the Office of Economic Opportunity, in 1969 and 1970. He next served as a White House staff assistant in 1970 and 1971 and as assistant director of the Cost of Living Council from 1971 to 1973

What was he foing before this? The War was full scale before this...

And jeez isn't that enuff time for the guys to be collecting taxpayer paychecks and keep hanging around..it's 2004 now! 'Pigs at the Trough' I gotta get this book!

BN747




"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1461 times:

What was he foing before this? The War was full scale before this...

WTF over?

Lets see here, the man was born in 1941, so I think he was a little young for WWII, That also would have made him what nine when Korea got nasty.

But that also means that he would have been 18 in 1959, which was before Vietnam became a household word. Shoot, the Cuban Missile Crisis was still three years away.

Jeeze I dunno, Maybe he was going to college in what was still considered to be peacetime? Somebody correct me if I am wrong but wasn't college an automatic deferment back then?

And correct me on this too but the army tended to draft 18 and 20 year olds out of high school, not guys in their mid to late 20's finishing up there masters and their doctorate.

He ended up with his BA in 65 and his masters in 66. Which means that he would have been what twenty five. He also spent the next three years doing additional schoolwork on a doctorate, which I do note, that I don't find any mention of him finishing.

Like it or not, his prime draft years where in the period before Vietnam. So he didn't dodge the draft, he just wasn't a prime canidate for it.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1452 times:

Cheney (a true chicken hawk) avoided service like many in his self-serving generation:

http://quest.cjonline.com/stories/080900/gen_0809005340.shtml


The thing that bugs me about Galaxy 5's whole thread and B757300's silly attack is that they are just feeble attempts at some kind of character assasination because they disagree with Kerry's politics.

Frankly, I disagree with his politics. According to this weeks Economist, he has a 93% approval rating from Americans for Democratic Action (a very liberal organization). He is a higher rated lefty than Ted Kennedy who got 88%.

Whatever his politics may be, he put himself in harms way in service of his country and saved the lives of his men. There are plenty of politicians in the baby boomer generation that talk a good game about love for their country but only a few that can truly back up the words the way that Kerry can.

For that, John Kerry has my utmost respect. Whatever the outcome of this year's election cycle, he will always have my gratitude for his service in Vietnam. There are many things more than important political ideology.

If you disagree with him for being too liberal, just say so. But refrain from inane attacks on his character.



[Edited 2004-02-01 06:37:01]

[Edited 2004-02-01 06:39:23]

User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

Like it or not, his prime draft years where in the period before Vietnam. So he didn't dodge the draft, he just wasn't a prime canidate for it.

Bullsh*t! Your info below proves it!

Lets see here, the man was born in 1941, so I think he was a little young for WWII, was this an attempt at humor? That also would have made him what nine when Korea got nasty.

And correct me on this too but the army tended to draft 18 and 20 year olds out of high school, not guys in their mid to late 20's finishing up there masters and their doctorate.

He ended up with his BA in 65 and his masters in 66. Which means that he would have been what twenty five.


BAM! Right there...he had the perfect creditials and was at the perfect age to be a commision officer! As was -- don't sh*t your pants -- Al Gore and John Kerry. He could have as they did...continued further educational goals afterward. So if he was as patriotic as he likes to paint himself...he blew a massive opportunity to prove it!

Although I believe the Vietnam War should have never happened and was botched from the start. But for blow-hard Patriots and raving war-hawks..you should at least be able to walk the walk if you're gonna talk the talk...and your boy Chicky Dicky came up WAY short!

BN747




"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

What difference could the remaining Viet Nam vets possibly make in the election out come? Not much.

But, harness them with the current active duty/reserve/retired community and you have done something.



User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1436 times:

Lets see here, the man was born in 1941..

Which means he was approaching 30 by 1970, which is far above the nominal age that the service were looking to nab new recruits, unless there was shortage of recruits, which there were not, or unless if it was a time of global war, which it was not.

BN747, even by my standards, as one who doesn't like Dick Cheney at all, you go way overboard in your attacks. The man didn't dodge anything. He certainly wasn't in his late teen or early 20's by the mid 60's, as Bush and Clinton were, and who would both have been prime candidates to get drafted for Vietnam. You're driven by pure hatred, nothing else.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1431 times:

Actually there was an overabundance of officers during Vietnam. ROTC And West Point where putting out plenty.

I knew more then a couple warrant Officers when I was in the Army that got their commissions and where full officers during Vietnam flying helos.

After the war, the army realized there where too many officers so a number of them agreed to become warrant officers or even go back to an enlisted rank rather then be Riffed out of the service. Which was also an option.

Why draft officers if you don't need them.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1427 times:

And it should be noted that by 73 nobody was being drafted anymore.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1417 times:

The Republicans by pointing the finger at Clinton for ostensibly avoiding the draft, have opened up a can of worms for themselves.

Case in point: Dick Cheney.

Cheney received his first deferment for being a student (much like Clinton would have when he was a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford. For the dimwitted and uneducated not in the know, thats a scholarship you get for having straight As. Dickie, by the way, flunked out of Yale after one year).

Cheney received two draft deferments --one for being a student in 1963, and one for being married in 1964. In 1965, the government announced a change of policy: Married men would now be drafted, unless they were also fathers. Nine months and two days after that announcement, the Cheneys had their first child. Surprise, surprise !

What is really galling about the Bushes and their cohorts is that while Clinton and the hippies were AGAINST the war in Vietnam, the Bushes were all for it as they and their compatriots stood to make a large profit from it, as well as ride out a big wave of patriotic hooplah. Its easy to send others to die, while waving the red,white, and blue and excoriating those who oppose the wretched hypocrisy fake patriots espouse.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 1407 times:

Being involved in a WW2 living hiostory group in the Netherlands (we portray British and Canadian soldiers), I did some research on the ages of British soldiers during WW2. Even though they had the 19 year old youngsters, it was quite common to have 37 year old privates, even in elite forces like the Airborne. I´ve seen several grave markers at the cemetary at Arnhem. AFIK the average age of an enlisted man in the US Army during WW2 was 25-29. Most of them had a family.

Jan


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 1405 times:

Yeah, but WWII and Vietnam should not be compared when discussing the amount of manpower needed to fight the war.

You are correct though, WWII had older soldiers then a lot would expect. But again Vietnam was much smaller, so the army could be more "picky"

Even today it is amazing how much the enlistment standards can change depended on what the armies needs are.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 1395 times:

Getting off topic, but in my opinion recruits should be quite a bit oolder than today, I think they should have a civilian profession and maybe a family. It makes them think more, but on the other hand I think this would lead to disciplinary problems as well.
Ok, for myself, I´ve never served, I´ve been born and grown up in West Berlin in the American sector under Allied law, this means the German military were not allowed to draft from Berlin and when the wall came down I was already too old for conscription, they were just not interested in me. I lived for many years right next door to an US Army barracks ( Andrews Barracks in Finkensteinallee for those who´ve been there) and I had some friends in the Berlin Brigade. I understand that the American soldiers serving in Berlin were handpicked due to the close contact with Soviet forces, they didn´t want to have some immature triggerhappy idiot to start WW3. Also due to the higher average age of the American and British soldiers many of them got married to German wives and stayed on after their time in the forces. The French soldiers were usualy 18-19 year old conscript, who, often not being able to speak German, stuck together and didn´t mix with the local population. Even today I still have a funny feeling seeing Bundeswehr soldiers in Berlin, Americans, British, French and Russians belong there, but for me Bundeswehr doesn´t belong there. I think I´m still more familar with the US and British Army than the Bundeswehr.

Jan


25 L-188 : Interesting. BTW, your comments about how the French limitations on ther laguages, unfortunately somewhat mirror my experiences there. The US Army did
26 MD11Engineer : Back in 1989, about 6 months before the wall came down, I had a friend who was a sergeant with the US Berlin brigade. We often went to East Berlin, be
27 Post contains images L-188 : think they were just shy teenagers That was probably me over there, except being a frog Actually the sad part is that my grandmother came over on the
28 MD11Engineer : L-188 Have you been based in Berlin? At Tempelhof Airbase? Jan
29 Post contains images L-188 : No never made it to Berlin. Was based in Stuttgart and Illisheim near Ansbach. Got as far north as Geissen and Frankfurt, as far south as Munich, Garm
30 Galaxy5 : Link works fine for me.
31 BN747 : "BN747, even by my standards, as one who doesn't like Dick Cheney at all, you go way overboard in your attacks. The man didn't dodge anything. He cert
32 Post contains images Aloha717200 : I'm against Bush as well, and for all the anti-democrats threads that come up, a quick search on Yahoo will provide sites supporting exactly the oppos
33 L-188 : For what its worth, I dont even know who Jane Fonda is, less do I care that he hung out with her in the early 70s. Again this can be compared to Arnol
34 Alpha 1 : Jane Fonda is another GOP prop any time they want to make anyone who ever talked to her look like they're UnAmerican. Any questions?
35 JeffM : I don't think Jane's antics back then were supportive, or helpful. But her right to say what she feels is what we are all about, and what many of us s
36 BN747 : As Liberal as I am...I have to disagree Jeff. What Jane did (Total anti-Vietnam war guy here) was just a notch short of Taliban Johnny -- John Walker
37 MidnightMike : Aloha717200 Your right, but sides take cheap shots, but, Kerry has been blasting the President for many months. He even used profanity when describin
38 Post contains links BN747 : You wanna see how they take shots at each other.. click below see reply #67! http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/492174/ BN747
39 Aloha717200 : The media hyped that one up too. The profanity use. What Kerry actually said was the following: When asked in the interview about the success of rival
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Ouch, Vets On Kerry. posted Thu Aug 5 2004 16:50:35 by Galaxy5
Success Against Terrorists In Cairo posted Tue Dec 5 2006 15:31:06 by ME AVN FAN
Bad News For John Kerry posted Wed Nov 29 2006 14:09:45 by Halls120
French UN Troops Prepare Guns Against Israeli Jets posted Fri Nov 17 2006 18:38:54 by Frequentflyer
Christian Group Speaks Out Against Poppies posted Thu Nov 9 2006 12:49:55 by RichardPrice
John Kerry's Latest Brilliant Comments Part 2 posted Sun Nov 5 2006 22:39:57 by Diamond
John Kerry's Latest Brilliant Comments posted Tue Oct 31 2006 19:27:58 by Jcs17
John Kerry Plays Politics With North Korea posted Sun Oct 15 2006 17:09:28 by AerospaceFan
Mexico Mulling UN Action Against U.S. Fence posted Tue Oct 10 2006 00:04:51 by AerospaceFan
What To Do Against Migraine? posted Sat Oct 7 2006 19:36:41 by Avianca