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Six Years In Verse: Analysing Vajpayees Record  
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1476 times:

Todays Column on Vajpayee by Mani Shankar Aiyar. PRETTY interesting riposte to all those BJP-wallahs!

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=40304



Six years in verse



Before another election, some questions for the prime minister



Mani Shankar Aiyar

This column is dedicated to that arbiter of good taste and exemplar of political etiquette, the Hon’ble Shri Pramod Mahajan, Minister of Manners.
I am amused by the BJP’s desperate attempt to convert the forthcoming Lok Sabha election into a political beauty contest between an octogenarian Dritharashtra, as Ram Jethmalani has so aptly described Vajpayee, and a reluctant debutante who has conclusively established her political appeal by winning far more states in her first six years at the helm than Vajpayee has in his last six as the NDA’s Numero Uno (which, for Pramod Mahajan’s benefit, I take the liberty of translating from the Italian as “Ek Numbari”). That they seek to do so only shows how dimly does their India shine. Else, why put all their eggs in one crumbling basket?

But battle having been joined, what alternative does one have to descending to their level? So, here goes. Sonia Gandhi, of course, is no freedom fighter. She could hardly have been one, given that she was born on December 9, 1946, the day the Constituent Assembly first met, to go by a plaque prominently displayed in Central Hall. She is only as old as our sovereignty. Not so Vajpayee. He is the first prime minister India has ever had who could have fought for the country’s freedom but refrained from doing so. Indeed, arrested in a Quit India demonstration in August 1942, he pleaded before a colonial court that he had done the Imperial Power no harm (“maine kuch nuksan nahi kiya”). Of course, he was then but a callow youth of some seventeen summers, so one can hardly take that statement as a confession of treachery. But when one considers that his mentor, Shyama Prasad Mookherjee, was in that historic year of 1942 in cross-communal co-habitation in the Bengal Government with Fazlul Haq of Jinnah’s party, both pledging fealty to the Crown at the precise moment Gandhiji was proclaiming “Karenge ya Marenge”, one needs to ask whether Vajpayee’s court performance was an innocent youthful prank or the first expression of his political preferences? For let none forget that it is the same young Atal Bihari Vajpayee who became secretary to the first president of the Bharatiya Jana Sangh, the self-same Shyama Prasad Mookherjee. So, did Vajpayee accuse himself of having done the Brits no harm because: a) he dearly wished them no harm? Or b) he did not sympathise with the aims or methods of the freedom movement for the reasons set out by his mentor? Or c) because in the unequal struggle between the satyagrahis and His Majesty, the Brits in 1942 looked as if they might be the winning side?

Next, as the first Gen X of independent India, Vajpayee could have joined a secular movement. He chose instead to proclaim Hindutva on his bhagwa dhwaj (saffron banner). He said in the middle of the Gujarat carnage in 2002 that his Hindutva is Swami Vivekananda’s. Curious that. For Swamiji died twenty years before Vinayak Damodar Savarkar first invented the word in 1922 — precisely to distinguish Hindutva from Hinduism. Savarkar, as a self-proclaimed and life-long atheist, had nothing to do with the spiritual dimension of religion. Hindutva, he translated into English as “Hindudom” or “Hinduness”, but certainly not as Hinduism. Swami Vivekananda, on the other hand, understood Hinduism as a body of spiritual beliefs. He never used the word “Hindutva” — for the good reason that no one used the word till Savarkar, decades later, wove it out of thin air while supplicating the Brits to let him out of prison.

So if Vajpayee’s “Vivekananda Hindutva” is a non-existent figment of a perfervid imagination, then what of his economic policies? Is he the Milton Friedman of Indian economics, or does he believe in “Gandhian socialism” — a term he coined as his party’s political ideology when in 1980 he became the founder-president of the Bharatiya Janata Party? Of course, he claimed after his faux pas in Long Island, NY, USA, that as PM he was a swayamsevak “in the service of the nation”, but before that he was certainly a swayamsewak of a more menacing kind — a lifelong acolyte of the RSS. Nothing much wrong with that, you might say — after all, our democracy allows for membership of any legitimately constituted organisation, however bizarre its views. But, then, what prevents Vajpayee from saying so? Many politicians think they can get away with fooling all of the people all of the time; but Vajpayee is the only one who thinks he can get away with fooling himself all of the time! Is he a socialist — or is he not? Is he a Gandhian — or is he not? If he was a Gandhian and a socialist once but is not one any longer, when did he stop being one? And why? Or is that it was fashionable to be a socialist in the eighties, and so he was a socialist? And as it is now fashionable to be a market-wallah, he is a market-wallah?

Let us come to his six years as prime minister. Most statesmen aspire to high office because they want to implement their alternative programme. Vajpayee is the first PM in recorded history to have stayed PM for six years entirely by keeping to one side his own programme to implement someone else’s! Did the BJP, in its present and past incarnations, really struggle fifty years to make it to government only to out-Congress the Congress? Or is it that principles, programmes and policies are, in Vajpayee’s view, only rungs to be clambered over to reach — and stay — at the top?

Silver-tongued oratory is, of course, a great asset in a political leader. But when the poet gets the better of the politician, is Vajpayee being Poet or PM when he says talks with the Kashmiri discontents will be held not within the framework of the Constitution but “insaniyat ke dayire mein” (within the framework of humanity)? Does that mean there is no humanity in our Constitution? Or does it mean that humanity lies beyond the Constitution? Or does it mean nothing at all — just “ki tuk jam gaya” (the verse has rhymed)?








15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2230 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1460 times:

Yo Roy, why don't we wait for the results of the elections ? Then we'll know just how much weight Mani-boy's oratory carries, eh ? I'm sure the Congress should do very well, thanks to all the financial support from Saddam Big grin


India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1461 times:

If this is the Congress party's best attempt at an election manifesto, the upcoming landslide will be even more one-sided than I first thought.


User currently offlineIndianFlyboy From India, joined Sep 2003, 294 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

Hey Roy , search on google, it will give you a list of flaws in the governing of India by the brilliant congress which you so strongly support . Believe me you won't be able to count it . Like Bargbag and B747-437B have already said let the elections do the talking.



User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1432 times:

I was very much against seeing the BJP take power, but I think they have done a hell of a good job - far better than Congress ever did. The economy is exploding, Liberalization is moving forward steadily, and all you have to do is go around some of the cities which are governed by the BJP or Congress, like I did in Rajistan last month, and compare the state of each to see that Congress has not done nearly as much for the betterment of people's lives than the BJP.

I still don't like the hardline Hindu elements of the BJP platform, but Vajpayee seems to have kept them under control.

Charles


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1421 times:


I'm sure the Congress should do very well, thanks to all the financial support from Saddam


Tsk! Tsk! Thats a new low!

I am sure that Vajpyayees links with the British and later American intelligence post 1972 should be equally interesting! Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi, the BJP's own "Uncle Tom" tried raising the issue of Saddam allegedly paying the Congress money, but ever since the COngress spokesman countered with evidence of Vajpayees CIA connections, the BJP has been pretty quiet!

As for the elections, well let India decide. But the fight against communal forces that the BJP represents has just begun.

Its not Vajpayee that we have to fear; As govindacharya of the BJP rightly said, Vajpayee is only a Mukhauta.its who is behind him, the fascist RSS that India needs to fear. They want to turn India into a Hindu version of Pakistan. THAT is going to be the issue. The Congress and the BJP are pretty evenly matched as far econmic policy goes! And dont forget, it is the COngress that launched economic reform!

As for you BarfBag: its so easy to praise a fascist group while your ass is parked in a plush apartment in America isnt it? Have you seen the bloody pogrom these people unleashed in Gujrat? Have you seen any of the pamphlets being distributed by the RSS and its allied organisations like the VHP/BD etc? Didnt think so!

Get a better understanding of the situation before venturing to comment!

-Roy


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2230 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1413 times:

Dear me, Roy. For someone who goes bawling to the a.net admins the moment anybody here attacks *you* in any manner, you show a remarkable propensity to dish out personal insults and condescending putdowns at others, never mind if you're barely near the mark with your assumptions  Big grin I'll just choose to politely sidestep your taunt, for it merely makes you look like an intemperate fool.

Look at the four responses in this thread so far besides yours. While the sample is narrow, none of them has suggested their perception of the BJP is as twisted as yours. Good luck to the Congress in the polls; as in the case of Sean, I expect a landslide for the BJP  Smile



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1392 times:


Lets take a look at one issue on which this election is going to fought on.

On 27th February 2002, the Sabarmati Express was stopped at a crossing just after it passed the Godhra Railway station by a “Muslim” mob. The coach numbered S6, was first stoned and then set on fire killing 58 men and women onboard, most of them “Ram Sevaks”, political activists belonging to the VHP, a part of the Sangh Parivar which today rules India by proxy.

This event was used as an excuse to embark on a campaign of rape and murder on a scale that was never seen since Partition. The administration actively participated in the arson directed against the Muslims. And after the violence subsided, the CM of the state began a blatantly communal campaign (“Hum Paanch, Unke Pachis”) that was clearly aimed at polarizing the communities further. The resulting polarization of communities resulted in a landslide for the CM, who was widely tipped to lose the elections due to his poor record in administration. Because the elections were NOT fought on governance, but on Communal polarisation. Fittingly, the state where we first saw this example on how the Sangh Parivar intends to implement it agenda was Gujarat, which our “Iron Man” once described as the Laboratory for the Hindutva ideology.

There are many theories as to what really happened at the Godhra Railway Station that day. First the theories that the Sangh Parivar put out. The Sangh Parivars “Iron Man” and the Union Home Minister said that the “needle of suspicion pointed squarely towards Pakistan”. The Chief Minister of Gujarat, Narendra Modi called it the work of “Jihadi mentality”. The Sangh Parivar has doubtless managed to use its Goebbelsian tactics quite effectively to “market” this Pakistan theory.

However till date the Govt has NOT made any serious efforts to get at the truth of what really happened. The Railways (coming under the Central Govt) has detailed lists of the passengers who traveled by coaches S5, S6 and S7 on that fateful day and survived the violence. Many of them were not members of the VHP or any organ of the Sangh. They could undoubtedly have told the truth about what really happened. Not only did the Govt itself refuse to act, the police also threatened some of them and warned them not to speak to the media, as one investigative report by a TV channel showed. An investigation by a respected organization like the Forensic Science Laboratory (FSL), which conclusively proved the fire in coach S6 COULD NOT have been set from outside, and had been set by someone inside the train, was rubbished by the Sangh Parivaar, including the so called “moderate” PM of India as the work of “perverted pseudo-secularists”.

While the Govt of Narendra Modi intentionally is going slow on the investigation into both Godhra and the subsequent violence, the so called “moderate” Vajpayee has, instead of launching an investigation, actually justified the carnage saying that “every action must have a reaction. The Muslims started it!” THIS is Moderate?

This is what a “moderate” Vajpayee actually said in his speech to the BJP National Executive meeting in Goa on 12 April 2002 (Indian Express dtd 13 April). Like Golwalkar, who believed only Hindus are true Indians, Vajpayee used words like “us”,”our”,”Hindus” and “Indians” interchangeably. India, he said, “was always secular and remained so until Muslims and Christians set foot on her soil. They had the freedom of worship. No one among us thought of converting them by force, because this is not practiced in our religion, and in our culture, there is no use for it.”

The PM was trying to contrast the “tolerance of hindus” with the alleged intolerance of Muslims and Christians. The references made by the Vajpayee, like the destruction of Temples and Idols by Muslim invaders and Christian Missionaries, is a standard part of RSS arsenal. At the root of major incidents of violence, he said, was “growing intolerance”. Since Hindus were, by his definition, tolerant, his obvious inference is that the growing intolerance was of the Muslims.

Continuing... ” What happened in Gujarat? If a conspiracy had not been hatched to burn alive the innocent passengers of the Sabarmati Express, then the subsequent tragedy in Gujarat could have been averted. But this did not happen. People were torched alive. Who were the culprits?”

So here we have the “moderate” presenting his own spin on the Newtonian theory that the RSS propagates! He made NO ATTEMPT to differentiate between the criminals who were behind the burning of the train, and the innocents who suffered in the state-backed violence that followed only because they were Muslims. Then he went from Bad to worse.

He continues...” Wherever Muslims live, they don’t like to live in co-existence with others, they don’t mingle, and instead of propagating their ideas in a peaceful manner, they want to spread their faith by resorting to terror and threats. The world has now become alert to this danger they pose”

Classic hate speech that would have been more appropriate in a Nazi convention! But when the local media had a field day with his speech played live on Television (Articles like “The Mukhauta is slipping.”), in classic Vajpayee fashion, he retracted his statement by saying that he had only meant “militant muslims”!! The PMO even issued an updated version of his speech, which we were told was to be the true record henceforth!

Apologists for the Sangh Parivar, especially the sub-type which resides in Umrikaa and gets the most easily swayed by the Goebellsian propaganda of the Parivaar, say that all this communal hatred was an aberration, and as the elections to the 3 states proved, elections “need not” be fought on communal lines. The issues were Roads, Electricity and Water. Or so we are told! Just take a look at what the 3 BJP CM’s have done in the past 100 days since they were voted into power. The Rajasthan CM, Ms.Raje dropped all cases against anti-nationals like Praveen Togadia, who has since returned to Rajasthan with his agenda of hatred of the “The kill all Muslims, and purify their women with the pure sperm of Hindu Manhood” variety. She has actually ordered the dropping of “anti-Hindu” cases like the cases against those propagating crimes like Sati (Bride Burning)! This by a woman CM! Small incidents are being blown out of proportion and serve as excuse to rape and butcher innocents. Take Jhabua in MP. A girl gets sexually assaulted by a (hindu) Vegetable Vendor, and this incident is used as an excuse to burn down a church, attack the Christian Community living in Jhabua and generally raise the level of communal tension. And what does the “sexy sanyasin” CM of the BJP do? She condemns the incident as a plot by “Christian Terrorists to destabilize her government” and warns the Christians to behave!! And like in Gujarat, the police who dared to implement the law and arrest the perpetrators of the violence were instantly transferred and all cases dropped!

Where then are we headed? Chamchas will point out the great economic progress that has been made under the “dynamic” leadership of Vajpayee. But would the economic miracle not have happened under a secular government (which started the reforms process in the first place!!)? And where is this communal hatred, this attempt to destroy India’s secular constitution and turn India into a Hindu version of Pakistan going to take us? Where is this spread of communal hatred going to take us? Can economic growth and consolidation happen in a situation of communal instability?

I am willing, for a moment, to believe that Vajpayee does not subscribe to the more extremist views in the rest of his party. Then why has he been an impotent observer as the rest of his party continues to spread this virus of communal hatred? The issue at hand is not what his personal beliefs about Muslims and Christians are, but whether he, as PM of an India that still has a secular constitution, is prepared to defend the constitutional rights of all citizens of India. Whatever his own personal views may be, as Prime Minister, he cannot speak for a certain community alone. The biggest question is did Vajpayee even endeavor to punish those who commited these terrible crimes against humanity? I think we all know the answer to that one!

Do the Muslims and Christians living in India have the right to their personal security? Are all communities in the country equal before the law? These are the questions that have come up today as a direct result of Vajpayees six years in power. They should never have arisen in a secular country. But they have, and that in itself says a lot about Vajpayees record in power.

And even if Vajpayee protestations of being a “moderate” are to be taken at face value, the question still remains as to how long he is going to survive, given the state of his health: physical and mental. Here is a man who is 79 years old; a diabetic who according to his own admission loves sweets and snacks fried in ghee! A man who cannot climb stairs and needs a motorized lift to accompany him everywhere! A man who despite his ill health, is known to enjoy his daily peg. A man who has been known to forget his lines mid-speech, and forget even the names of his own cabinet ministers! By all indications we see, he is not going to last beyond the next 2 years! And he asks for a mandate of 5 years? So after him who? Advani? Uma Bharati? Or (God Forbid!) Narendra Modi? Who? Who after Vajpayee? And what happens to our Secular Constitution after the exit of this so called moderate? If the moderate was like this how would the hardliners be? IF this was the trailer I shudder to think what the whole film would be like!

Sean: Winning or Losing is beside the point. I don’t take sides depending on who is winning or losing. I am talking of defending a principle here. The Congress has not been a saint as far as protecting Secularism is concerned, and I am sure BarfBag can conjure a number of examples here but the Congress is the best hope for secularism that we have. Minorities are under attack as the RSS seeks to impose its perverted ideology. Do you think that if Gulmarg Society could be ravaged in Feb of 2002, then Pali Hill would be spared if these people began an anti-Christian pogrom in Mumbai? Secularism in India is under serious threat and people concerned about it must not keep quiet. There is too much at stake here to keep silent.

And the situation is not exactly rosy for the BJP. True, the urban voter will mostly go with the BJP and even about that there are serious doubts. And the poor and tribal population are expected to solidly rally behind the Congress as before. Last time around, the Congress fought alone, while the BJP had all the allies I the critical states. Now the situation has been reversed. In my state Maharashtra, the Congress won 28% of the votes, and the NCP won another 22-23% while the BJP-Shiv Sena combination got merely 27% together! But the BJP-SS still managed to walk away with 28 out of 48 seats simply because the Cong and the NCP fought against each other in all these seats. A similar story was repeated in Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, UP, MP etc where SP, AIADMK and JD(S) played the spoilers. This time the congress has sown up solid alliances to ensure that the secular vote does not get divided. And not projecting Sonia as PM helps cultivate more potential allies who are now with the fascist BJP, but are more ideologically close to the Congress. So the way is not paved with roses for the BJP which explains the flood of sops. And just how effective could the Priyanka factor be? The welcome she received in Amethi, and the panic reaction from the BJP’s potty mouths Pramod Mahajan and VK Malhotra to news of her entry into politics is just one indication.

The BJP has been using the power of the state to try and influence the voters. They have used their time in office to appoint people with an RSS background in key areas of the Government machinery from Information and Broadcasting to the Election Commission to the Finance Ministry. There are already reports coming in of mass anipulation of electoral rolls in Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra and Uttar Pradesh. Worse, 150 crores of public money has been spent in the “Shining India” campaign which itself shows their desperation. This is going to be an election between Fascism and a Secular model of Governance and ultimately the voter will decide. Are the chips in favor of the BJP? Undoubtedly, it seems that way right now. But Indian elections, like the Assembly Elections in the 4 states, have never been predictable and always been full of surprises! Only time will tell!

-Roy

(PM’s speech was taken from various Indian Express clippings of the period.)



User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

BarfBag:hOW many of the others who have ventured to comment on this thread actually live in India?

User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1381 times:

I don't live there, but I have spent about 2-3 years there altogether over the past decade. My Wife and her family are Indian. Call me an interested foreigner.

Not living in the U.S., Iraq or elsewhere has not prevented you, Roy, from making your opinions known about those places.

Charles


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2230 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1373 times:

Good grief man. The BJP isn't full of closet Nazis who are just itching to herd every non-Hindu into gas chambers the moment they get elected with a majority. Lionizing their lunatic fringe as representative of the whole party at large makes you look silly, and insults the average Indian voter who casts his ballot in favour of the BJP, regardless of religion, caste or any other denominator.

If the voter were as convinced about the BJP's alleged thuggishness as you portray it, they'd never even be a political force of any ability, *anywhere* in India, period. By presuming otherwise, and portraying the Congress (who, incidentally, are courting the Marxists, of all people, as allies) as a saviour, the Congress would be insulting the average citizen by claiming they know better than them what's good for them. Unfortunately it works the other way around - the voter picks based on what they believe and who they feel are good for them.

Besides, you're going way out of line here. You can't presume that your words carry greater voice merely because other posters are not Indian or don't presently reside in India. If that were the case, as CFalk said, you'd be expected to restrict your diatribes solely to matters pertaining to India and nothing else.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1355 times:

hOW many of the others who have ventured to comment on this thread actually live in India?

Guess what Roy. My absentee ballot cast at the Indian Consulate in Toronto will carry EXACTLY the same weight as your ballot cast in a schoolroom in Pune.

Isn't democracy wonderful?


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1335 times:

Jesus Roy, take some Prozac...or better...stick your finger in the wall socket. Do you ever have a positive thing to say about anyone or anything?

User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1321 times:


Lionizing their lunatic fringe as representative of the whole party at large makes you look silly, and insults the average Indian voter who casts his ballot in favour of the BJP, regardless of religion, caste or any other denominator.

So the BJP does not have any links with the extreme lunatic fringe? Just how many of the top leadership of the BJP have come from OUTSIDE the RSS or its affiliates? Where has PM vajpayee come from?

Its shocking how u sidestep the specific points that a moderate Vajpayee made in his speeches. Its also shocking how you completely sidestep how a moderate Vajpayee handled the murderous Modi and the Gujarat riots.

If he didnt approve of these maniacs, how does he associate his name with them? They come as a package deal. Sure they have some good points about them. BUt the negatives far far outweigh the positives.

Tell us BarfBag: Do you approve of the way the communal situation was handled? Supporters of the extreme right wing often balk at taking a definite stand because they know they are on a sticky wicket! But I would ask you directly: Do you approve of Hindutva including its rabid manisfestation that we saw in Gujarat and n0ow wer are seeing in MP where Muslims and Christians are being killed and denied even the most basic rights granted to them by the constitution? Do you secretly approve of this Muslim-killing? You cant say that it is not related to the BJP because it is! We have Uma BHarati winning an election on a BJP ticket and then setting out with a vengeance to deal with Christians! We had BJP MLA's going out with voters lists looking for Muslim localities to plunder. So it is a package deal. Do you approve of this?


(who, incidentally, are courting the Marxists, of all people, as allies)

More nonsense from someone who claims to know India. The CPM and the COngress are NOT fighting together! ANd even if they were, remember your Vajpayee is currently breaking bread with a hardcore socialist George Fernandes, who first came in the news for bringing the railways across India to a halt as a trade union leader! And since you are a hardcore RSS supporter, the head of the RSS, Shyama Prasad Mookerjee in 1942 got into an alliance with the Muslim League (Holy Cow!) to govern Bengal after the Congress ministries resigned to calls from Mahatma Gandhi for the British to "Quit India". At that time, the RSS and the Muslim League had gotten together and clamped down on the COngress led freedom struggle! And FIRs registered at the Allahabad police chowkey dtd Sep-1942 will attest to your Vajpayee having served as an informer to get Congress workers arrested "for causing disruption to His Majesty's property".

But all that was ok. When the RSS does it, it is political compulsion. When the Congress does it, it is opportunism?


Guess what Roy. My absentee ballot cast at the Indian Consulate in Toronto will carry EXACTLY the same weight as your ballot cast in a schoolroom in Pune.

Isn't democracy wonderful?

And your point is?
But ofcourse


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2230 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1316 times:

You know what Roy ? The economy is growing by leaps and bounds. Companies all over are reaping in massive profits. People are making lakhs in the stock market. Cars, bikes, cellphones and a whole bunch of other things are selling better than hot cakes. More roads are being built in a day than used to be built in a year. Farm credit is available at 5-10% rates, compared to obscenely high interest rates in the past.

But hey, Vajpayee allegedly did nasty things in 1942. The BJP and RSS allegedly did really bad stuff in Gujarat. So bad of them. The Congress, bless their souls, are a wonderfully innocent secular, progressive, worldly-wise lot who did nothing but good for India.

Seriously, do you think typing out 100-line posts, assassinating every character outside the Congress fold and exaggerating everything bad that happened in recent years helps you make your point ? Oh well, its your time you're spending, not mine. I don't care to waste my time on point-by-point rebuttals. You win by default. Congratulations. Here's you're cookie.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

Sheesh talk of a bad looser!


You know what Roy ? The economy is growing by leaps and bounds. Companies all over are reaping in massive profits. People are making lakhs in the stock market. Cars, bikes, cellphones and a whole bunch of other things are selling better than hot cakes. More roads are being built in a day than used to be built in a year. Farm credit is available at 5-10% rates, compared to obscenely high interest rates in the past.


And you venture to sugest that the economy would NOT have grown under a secular govt? The period between 1991 and 1998 when secular governments where in power, the average rate of growth was over 8 percent. The average growth rate in the 5 years that Vajpayee has been in power the growth rate has been 4.5%, and has only touched 8% in the last 6 months!

Cellphones selling like hotcakes yes. But who launched the telecom revolution in 1988? Vajpayee? Advani? No wait! At the time they were busy crossing the country in their toyota raths exhorting Hindus to "Ek Dhakka aur Do, masjid ko tod do!" (Just one more push, and pull down the mosque!)

Farm credit available at 5-10%? Utter Nonsense and part of the half truths being spread to cultivate the so called "Feel Good"! check your figures man. Credit rates for farmers (on their Union Govt's credit card scheme) stands at 14% as of now atleast in the Western Maharashtra region. I know that because I work in a village adopted by an NGO. So while Urban folks can get Housing Loans at 7%, farmers still have to shell out double that plus collateral! Which means that landless laborers dont benefit! But ofcourse, you wouldnt know!

Accelerating the NHDP programme is possibly the only thing I would give credit. Going up from 1 km/day to 5 km/day is an achievement. But then again, the Govt today is sitting on a lot more funds than when the COngress was in power!

Its AMAZING how you choose to completely ignore the Crux of my argument., I repeat it for your benefit:


I am willing, for a moment, to believe that Vajpayee does not subscribe to the more extremist views in the rest of his party. Then why has he been an impotent observer as the rest of his party continues to spread this virus of communal hatred? The issue at hand is not what his personal beliefs about Muslims and Christians are, but whether he, as PM of an India that still has a secular constitution, is prepared to defend the constitutional rights of all citizens of India. Whatever his own personal views may be, as Prime Minister, he cannot speak for a certain community alone. The biggest question is did Vajpayee even endeavor to punish those who commited these terrible crimes against humanity?


Waiting to hear your answer!

As for 100 line posts, that was just a draft of an article that I had written which should appear in a national newspaper sometime next week. The debate we have her helps refine that!

Thanx!

Roy


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