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What's In Your Garage - Democratic Party Edition  
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Sourced from
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/payne200402060846.asp

Michigan, is of course, home to lots of unionized Big Three workers. Who don't really care for CAFE and the Democrats' green positions. So what do the Democratic contenders for the nomination drive, since after all, Republicans are the ones who want to burn down the rain forests, despoil the Artic Wildlife Refuge with oil spills, poison the rivers, etc?

Lest we not forget this gem from Al Gore that the internal combustion engine was a "mortal threat to the security of every nation that is more deadly than that of any military enemy we are ever again likely to confront."

Ouch.

John Kerry: Wants CAFE expanded to 36 MPG for both SUVs and cars, up from ~21 MPG today (I think). Let's see, he has

Well, we have a couple of Chrysler minivans," begins Kerry the seasoned politician, who long ago learned to buy American brands only. "We have a Jeep. . . and a PT Cruiser up in Boston. . .and we have some SUVs. . . and an old Dodge 600 that I keep in the Senate. . . and. . . ." And suddenly, Kerry the Average American Buyer is Kerry the Blueblood with more cars than he can count. And that's not his only political faux pas. His PT Cruiser is built in Mexico. Oops.

When prodded about whether he buys anything other than Chrysler products, Kerry is quick to add: "Oh yes, I also have a Chevy. A big Suburban." Stop the presses! The King of CAFÉ owns the most notorious gas-guzzler in the U.S. fleet, GM's super-sized 13-mpg SUV! The moral high ground is lost.


Wesley Clark: "I drive a Mazda Miata and a Mercedes E320," states the general. Both foreign-made. Both good cars. Both political disasters: Neither soccer moms nor NASCAR dads drive Miatas or Mercedes.

Howard Dean: Dean apparently favors government regulation of autos because he himself is incapable of self-restraint. Dean admits he owns "two Ford Explorers." Miles per gallon: 15. Stop me before I SUV again

I was expecting a Subaru Outback or something. You see a gazillion of those up in Connecticut and Mass.

Dennis Kucinich: The real tree-hugger of the bunch, he's big on hybrid vehicles. But he drives a pedestrian gasoline sucking Ford Focus.

Which actually isn't so bad compared to the rest of the group. It's made in America, at least..

John Edwards: is the only candidate who didn't answer the car question (perhaps Michigan is too far north for the avowed southern candidate), but his press clippings are littered with jaunts in minivans and SUVs. An owner of four homes, Edwards's multimillionaire-lawyer lifestyle suggests a commitment to conspicuous consumption. No wonder fuel-economy issues rank well down his issue list. Like his overall green agenda ("Preserve clean air. Keep water pure.") his auto stance is also vague and perfunctory: "Edwards supports increased fuel efficiency standards for cars."


What's in your garage? My Camry and my sister's Civic are both pretty fuel efficient. The Grand Caravan average 26.6 MPG on the way up to Connecticut this Christmas. But Mom's POS Lumina is a hog and the F-150 with ancient 5.0 is a real gas guzzler. Plus it costs over $50 to fill the dual tanks. Ouch.

Greg doesn't have to respond, M5s are so worth it they're obviously exempt (although maybe one would drive Howard Dean into another YEEEAAAAARGH rage).

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDelta767300ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2562 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1524 times:

1998 Camaro Z28 M6 w/ mods. Gets shitty gas milage, but I dont care.

-Delta767300ER


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8685 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1518 times:

So now a Bush fan tries to resort to making the Democratic candidates look silly even before the primaries are over and in the process making a **mbf**k out of himself? Sheesh, if that upcoming presidential election and the credibility of a president are all about SUVs in garages, I ask you to



And no, I'm not trying to be funny.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

John Kerry wants CAFE expanded to 36 MPG for both SUVs and cars, up from ~21 MPG today (I think).

This is a bad thing? I like my chevy silverado which is comparable in gas mileage to the SUV's, but I don't see a problem with having more fuel-efficient vehicles. I realize that by saying this, I sound hypocritical, but I would trade in my Chevy Silverado for a more fuel-efficient version.

DLKAPA


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8685 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

DLKAPA,

that doesn't sound hypocritical. If you want to drive a large car, well fine. If you've got one and like it, even better. If you realise that a better gas mileage is desirable, why should that be hypocritical?


The issue that's hardly ever adressed, but deserves as much attention as global warming is exhaustion of resources. Global warming is influenced by many factors, with industrial CO2 emissions being one of them.

But what will people do when there's no oil left? What will we make our plastics from, our flavours, our medicine, our lubricants, our solvents? I could go on forever, but the point is: oil should be considered a valuable resource, not just the stuff you fill your tank up with.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1504 times:

Did you know that the United States is home to 5% of the world's population, yet produces 20% of the world's greenhouse gasses? I learned that in Econ today.

DLKAPA


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8685 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Well, if you look at it that way, give the US credit for the part of the global GDP (or what it should be called) it produces. It still doesn't make things perfect, but puts them into perspective.


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineB2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1369 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1485 times:

The US accounts for about $10.1 trillion of the world's estimated $47 trillion economic output, giving us a 21.5% share.

http://www.wallstreetview.com/GDPRankings.html

Keeping this in mind, the oft-repeated assertion that the US consumes 20-25% of the world's resources is not so outrageous, especially when one considers that we have lower population density and more dispersed population centers than many other industrialized nations, meaning higher transportation costs. Australia is an even better example; IIRC, it has (or recently had) the highest per-capita energy use in the 30 OECD members, mostly because of climate and distance.

Aloges:

True, oil has many uses other than transporation, but these are included in the market price of petroleum products. The price of any particular petroleum product is influenced by the alternative uses forgone in the production process (the "opportunity costs"). When oil begins to run low, prices for crude oil, gas, kerosene, plastic, etc., will begin to rise, providing incentives for consumers to conserve, explorers to find new oil reserves, and innovators to come up with alternative energy sources. Until that point, there is no "better" price for oil than the market price, which by definition captures all sources and uses for oil.

--B2707SST



Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

Did you know that the United States is home to 5% of the world's population, yet produces 20% of the world's greenhouse gasses? I learned that in Econ today.


Did you read the rest of the Economics book yet?


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1464 times:

Mmmm.... except that most of those "greenhouse gases" are actually molecules of carbon dioxide. Which, coincidentally, plants love and I'm not all that worried about.

It would be nice, DLKAPA, but it is currently not economically feasible. Low sulfur standards for diesel in the US are coming, which should help a lot. Your truck would get much better gas mileage with a diesel ... too bad GM doesn't see much of a market for it.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1447 times:

Wasn't low sulfer mandated to be used about two years ago?

I wish more diesels would be sold in the US, even though here in Alaska they can be a royal pain in the arse to start when they are cold.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1421 times:

Mmmm.... except that most of those "greenhouse gases" are actually molecules of carbon dioxide. Which, coincidentally, plants love and I'm not all that worried about.

You can say you don't care about environment, but that ... that's just stupid.

Plants have much more CO2 available than needed and the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing regularly. And when the plants don't grow up, they have a net CO2 consumption of 0.
You don't care a shit, but it actually changes the climate !


User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1416 times:

Mmmm.... except that most of those "greenhouse gases" are actually molecules of carbon dioxide. Which, coincidentally, plants love and I'm not all that worried about.

If you have to put it that way, we seem to have less of those too these days.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8685 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1414 times:

The problem with CO2 generated when oil is burnt is that it "old" CO2. The plants that absorbed it millions of years ago and became oil (or coal) lived on a warmer planet, with part of that being due to a higher CO2 concentration in the atmosphere. When those plants had died, they were in one way or the other sealed off from the rest of the world and became oil, so the CO2 in them was taken out of natural circulation. Possible result: lower average temperatures on the surface of the Earth due to lowered atmospheric CO2 concentration.

If mankind now proceeds to burn much of that oil and thus injecting the "old" CO2 back into circulation, what is likely to happen? You got it, an increase in average temperatures on the surface of the Earth due to raised atmospheric CO2 concentration.

It's probably not a problem that mankind couldn't deal with (we've proven to be able to survive just about everything), but a gigantic burden for the future. You might want to say "So what?" every time someone tells you that reefs are dying because of higher water temperatures, but you wouldn't be saying that if a reef was all that keeps you from losing your home.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39693 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1409 times:

THIS IS WHY SUPERFLY NEEDS TO BE THE PRESIDENT!

In my garage, I have a 1977 Lincoln Town Car made in Wixom, Michigan!
100% American made by the proud men & woman who belong to the UAW!


What do I use everyday to get to and from work?
Public transit electric street car. Something all civilized societies should have in major metropolitan areas.
The car comes in handy for trips up the coast, touring wine country or a latenight booty call. Big grin


I am not too concened about CAFE standards on 'true' SUVs because there is a law of PHYSICS that neither Democrats or Republicans can touch. The truck based SUVs are OK as long as they come with a diesel engine and 4X4 drive. The only people that check the diesel option actually have a need for these vehicles.
Car-based SUVs should all be melted down and used as beer cans.  Smile

[Edited 2004-02-07 12:13:24]

[Edited 2004-02-07 12:14:43]


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1407 times:

did you know that 1 litre oil had originally consisted from about 10thousand tons of biomass.
that should tell you what kind of moronic waste the current politics are and how important it is to improve the efficiency of its usage.
oil is something very precious and limited, we need to stop wasting it.



10=2
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1405 times:

Ummm Larry.

The only people that check the diesel option actually have a need for these vehicles.

I know lots of people who have SUV's and will never get one with a diesel.

If you have ever tried to start a diesel motor that has been cold soaked all night during an Alaskan winter, you will understand why.

Gas motors do tend to start easier in those conditions.





OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8685 posts, RR: 43
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

"If you have ever tried to start a diesel motor that has been cold soaked all night during an Alaskan winter, you will understand why."

With one more problem being "How do I melt that fuel?!"  Laugh out loud



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAirplanepics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2730 posts, RR: 41
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1398 times:

Aloges, It would be nice if you asked me to use my alien dude, before you go and nick it.


Simon - London-Aviation.com
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1398 times:

Hey. there is a reason why Diesel trucks are never shut off in Prudhoe Bay in January.

With one more problem being "How do I melt that fuel?!"

Yes, But it is cheaper when you buy it in a 50 lb block.

[Edited 2004-02-07 12:22:41]


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39693 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1392 times:

L-188:
Have they considered engine block heaters?


Zak:
oil is something very precious and limited, we need to stop wasting it.

I agree. Problem is that the barons runing the industry are very short sighted and don't give a rat's a$$ about the future (Dick & Bush).
Although I get 7 MPG city, 13 MPG hiway, I hardly drive the damn thing. I use PUBLIC TRANSIT for my everyday use. It's cheaper, easier, don't have to worry about parking, putting up with stupid drivers, bike messengers, pedestrians, etc..

I only put 4,000 miles on my car all year. Cars are great for those long road trips to the Grand Canyon and picking up Alex (An-225) from SFOBig grin
For the most part, public transit is the best ideal for everyday use in large metro areas.
The Europeans have been doing it for years and the USA did it years ago in more cities than today.
Goodyear, Standard Oil and Mack trucks had a ot to do with that demise.  Sad



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

L-188:
Have they considered engine block heaters?



We have them, but you still need to find a place to plug it in!!!

[Edited 2004-02-07 12:30:49]


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39693 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

L-188:
OK Prudhoe Bay is an exception but in about 25 years, there will be no more oil left up there to drill. Therefore no more industry and thus, the Penguins and Polar Bears will reclaim there land.  Laugh out loud



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1385 times:

the Penguins and Polar Bears will reclaim there land.

Wrong hemisphere for penguins, unless they are from Pittsburg  Laugh out loud

That is definately true if we are prohibitied from looking at other location, particularly the 2000 acres of the 1020 area of ANWR that borders Prudhoe Bay. That area was promised by Carter to be opened for exploration when ANWR was created.

My stated feelings is that oil is going to become too valuable to use a fuel and at some point alternatives to oil will become cost-effective.

[Edited 2004-02-07 12:35:04]


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39693 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1380 times:

L-188:
 Embarrassment That's right, the pengiuns are at the South Pole. Embarrassment


Electric cars are butt-f**k UGLY!
If they can make an electric full-size rear drive sedan with the same power as the equivalant gas engine, then it will make since.



Bring back the Concorde
25 L-188 : Except you still have to generate the electricty to power the batteries somehow. That and batteries loose efficency and power as it gets cold too.
26 Post contains images Superfly : L-188: Well I guess our grandchildren will live in huts in villages, eating fruits & nuts beating drums, smoking pot and practicing yoga.
27 L-188 : Well I guess our grandchildren will live in huts in villages, eating fruits & nuts beating drums, smoking pot and practicing yoga I thought our parent
28 Post contains images Superfly : L-188: They saw in to the future. I guess they had better drugs back then.
29 Goose : L-188: Have they considered engine block heaters? The comment was made before that you often can't find a place to plug in your truck in some places w
30 Sebolino : If you have ever tried to start a diesel motor that has been cold soaked all night during an Alaskan winter Oh yeah !! Many of us are VERY concerned b
31 Aloges : Sebolino, the guy (L-188) is from Alaska! So he does have a point when he talks about the problems Diesel engines have during winter.
32 Sebolino : Yes, I know that. What I mean is that it's not a general argument.
33 Zak : in my opinion if someplace has such a harsh enviroment that you can only live there destroying parts of it, you shouldnt live there. if you chose to l
34 L-188 : in my opinion if someplace has such a harsh enviroment that you can only live there destroying parts of it, you shouldnt live there Name one place on
35 BR715-A1-30 : 1998 Ford Mustang -- 19 city 22 highway MPG
36 Cfalk : in my opinion if someplace has such a harsh enviroment that you can only live there destroying parts of it, you shouldnt live there. if you chose to l
37 Aloges : Zak, even a mouse destroys parts of the environment it lives in. Beavers create entire new biotopes. Elephants eat entire acacia woods. The question i
38 Startvalve : Also for those of you in love with Diesel, have you seen what it costs lately? It costs more per gallon than gasoline does in many places thanks to th
39 MD-90 : I don't think that low sulfur standards are silly at all. You can use better and more efficient engines with it. Superfly that is unbelievable. We had
40 Post contains images Cancidas : very soon i'll be owning this: now before you all start ripping on me for it again, listen to this: "i don't care what anyone has to say, i'm still bu
41 MD-90 : I don't think anyone's going to say much, Cancidas, when they can't see what it is.
42 Post contains images Cfalk : Matchbox? Charles
43 BN747 : It looks like a hearst...am I right? BN747
44 Post contains images Superfly : Cancidas: Do this come stock with a rainbow flag? Those Honda Pilots are very popular with the guy dudes here in SFO. You can take home the cutest guy
45 Startvalve : Its one of those silly Honda Element thingies I think. Since he doesn't care what I say I'll say what I think. Its a silly vehicle designed for the co
46 Superfly : Startvalve: Thanks for correcting me. I really try to ignore these eyesoars on the street.
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