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"I Had A Good Time At Guantanamo"  
User currently offlineLeviticus From New Zealand, joined Oct 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1908 times:


I had a good time at Guantanamo, says inmate
By Rajeev Syal
(Filed: 08/02/2004)


An Afghan boy whose 14-month detention by US authorities as a terrorist suspect in Cuba prompted an outcry from human rights campaigners said yesterday that he enjoyed his time in the camp.

Mohammed Ismail Agha, 15, who until last week was held at the US military base in Guantanamo Bay, said that he was treated very well and particularly enjoyed learning to speak English. His words will disappoint critics of the US policy of detaining "illegal combatants" in south-east Cuba indefinitely and without trial.

In a first interview with any of the three juveniles held by the US at Guantanamo Bay base, Mohammed said: "They gave me a good time in Cuba. They were very nice to me, giving me English lessons."

Mohammed, an unemployed Afghan farmer, found the surroundings in Cuba at first baffling. After he settled in, however, he was left to enjoy stimulating school work, good food and prayer.

"At first I was unhappy . . . For two or three days [after I arrived in Cuba] I was confused but later the Americans were so nice to me. They gave me good food with fruit and water for ablutions and prayer," he said yesterday in Naw Zad, a remote market town in southern Afghanistan close to his home village and 300 miles south-west of Kabul, the capital.

He said that the American soldiers taught him and his fellow child captives - aged 15 and 13 - to write and speak a little English. They supplied them with books in their native Pashto language. When the three boys left last week for Afghanistan, the soldiers looking after them gave them a send-off dinner and urged them to continue their studies.

"They even took photographs of us all together before we left," he said. Mohammed, however, said he would have to disappoint his captors by not returning to his studies. "I am too poor for that. I will have to look for work," he said.

Mohammed said his detention began in November 2002 when he and a friend, both unemployed, left their farming community for Lashkar Gah, a nearby town. He said that as they stood outside a shop they were detained by a group of armed men who accused them of being members of the Taliban, the fundamentalist Islamic movement formerly in power in Afghanistan.

They were then handed over to US soldiers, who took them to the southern city of Kandahar, he claimed. They were taken to Bagram air base, where Mohammed was held in solitary confinement.

"They were asking me if I was Taliban. I said, 'No, I am innocent'. I thought they were going to release me but instead they put me on a plane," he said. "They asked me to wear a hood for part of the journey. When I got off the plane I was in Cuba."

While Mohammed praised the American soldiers who watched over him, he criticised the US authorities for failing to contact his parents for 10 months to let them know that he was alive. "They stole 14 months of my life, and my family's life. I was entirely innocent: just a poor boy looking for work," he said.

Mohammed and his fellow juvenile detainees returned to Afghanistan last week, after the intervention of the International Committee of the Red Cross. His words of praise for the American soldiers in Guantanamo Bay echo those of Faiz Mohammed, an elderly Afghan farmer who was detained at the base for eight months before being released in October 2002.

"They treated us well. We had enough food. I didn't mind [being detained] because they took my old clothes and gave me new clothes," said the farmer, who was partially deaf.

Camp Delta, which superseded the temporary Camp X-Ray, and Camp Iguana, a lower-security detention facility for juveniles, were established as part of President George W Bush's "war on terror".

More than 600 suspected al-Qaeda and Taliban suspects have been held without charge at the barbed-wire camps since December 2001. They include nine Britons and three British residents.

Human rights agencies such as Amnesty International have alleged that the detention of the boys contravened the Geneva Convention, saying the separation from their families amounted to a form of mental torture. One of the boys was just 11 when he was detained.

The US authorities insist that age plays no role in deciding who constitutes a threat. "Age is not a determining factor in detention. We detain enemy combatants who engaged in armed conflict against our forces or provided support to those fighting against us," said a Pentagon spokesman.

Another US government official contradicted Mohammed's claims that he was entirely innocent when detained. The official said last week that one of the three boys had told of being conscripted into an anti-American militia group; a second said that he was abducted by the Taliban and forced to train and fight; while the third was studying in an extremist mosque and captured while preparing to obtain weapons.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$JIFJI0XVBQW0DQFIQMFSFF4AVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2004/02/08/wguan08.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/02/08/ixworld.html




[Edited 2004-02-10 23:44:05]

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1891 times:

Maybe he did have a good time. That's far from the point.

He was still held, without charge or trial, not found guilty and with precious little proof. Oh, and he was 15.

Whether he had a good time or not isn't the problem.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

Well this won't shut groups that support terrorism, such as Human Rights watch, The ACLU and Amnesty International up. Do I forsee those pinheads screaming Stockhom Syndrome B.S. ....absolutely!

"They were asking me if I was Taliban. I said, 'No, I am innocent'

ROTFLMAO!!!

Anybody remember that line that Sgt Bower tells Major Eisman in the Dirty Dozen?

"1st thing in prison, everybody is innocent!"



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16870 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1878 times:

""1st thing in prison, everybody is innocent!"

Got that right!

From the eldest Mafioso to the youngest Taliban they know the routine, "who me"?..




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1874 times:



User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1863 times:

The core issue here is that an innocent 14-year old boy was kidnapped from his country and imprisoned for over a year halfway across the world from his family.

I'd love to see the reaction tomorrow if the Syrians/Iranians/Pakistanis went into Ohio tomorrow, kidnapped an American teenager in JROTC and held him in a 5-star resort as an "enemy combatant" for a year while they "investigated".

Double standards? You be the judge.


User currently offlineSonic From Lithuania, joined Jan 2000, 1670 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1837 times:

I would quite believe that he had a good time. I remember in some 1995 year when the economical situation here was really bad some Lithuanian man went to Sweden and threatened to destroy power plant. As it appeared later, he did so only to get into Swedish prison...

What's really bad for one person can be really good for other... But the point is not here, as some people noted. The point is that these war prisoners are held without trials there and they are not actually asked werether they wants it. Don't get me wrong, I really do not say that you should ask prisoners werether they wants to be in prison, I am just saying that a single person's opinion can't represent whole bunch of people. If you would somehow independently question them and they all would say (under no pressure) that they wants to be in Guantanamo, then and just then the point of this topic (that Afghans likes to be in Guantanamo, if I understood it correctly) would be clarified.

(some) people from some very poor countries would probably even agree to submit to slavery in advanced state (e.g. USA), but would this make slavery moral?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1829 times:

Sonic, a statistic came out a few months ago that each gitmo detainee has gained something like 20 kilo's since they arrived.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2734 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1820 times:

" ... each gitmo detainee has gained something like 20 kilo's ..."

Obviously prep for their citizenship exams ....



" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3369 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1802 times:

L-188: Well this won't shut groups that support terrorism, such as Human Rights watch, The ACLU and Amnesty International up.

Now I don't know the HRW and the ACLU, but I do know Amnesty. I don't think they support terrorism, do you?



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1799 times:

Well they are screaming for all those terrorists and detainees to be released!


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

Well they are screaming for all those terrorists and detainees to be released!

They're screaming for them to have legal representation, charges and trials. Not too much to ask?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1790 times:

Those that require that will have that, they have been working on the intricaies of the trials for a while now.

And a lot of those that are not deserving of charges have been released, these three kids being the latest example.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSonic From Lithuania, joined Jan 2000, 1670 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

L-118, well, the number of kilos they've got can't be an indicator werether they likes to be there or not. Of course, probably they have a more balanced diet in Guantanamo than they did in Afghanistan. But food is not only thing a human being needs... There is also freedom, fatherland, honour, etc. Not saying that everybody needs those - some people are quite "animal-like" (sorry for the word) in this case. However, others are much more idealistic and has more values.

User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1774 times:

There's no real legal precedent for trials for the folks detained at Gitmo. That's part of the problem....

Every time terrorists have been tried - whether it be in Italy, Germany, or by Scottish judges in the case of the Lockerbie bombing - criminal laws have always applied, not the Geneva Convention.

It's hard to slice it. I don't think you'll make everyone happy, whichever way the US government decides to go when it comes to prosecuting those folks.



"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineLHMark From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1756 times:

I didn't realize Camp X-Ray had a ball crawl.


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlinePhotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2744 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1752 times:

Anybody remember that line that Sgt Bower tells Major Eisman in the Dirty Dozen?
"1st thing in prison, everybody is innocent!"


First thing, it's Major Reisman (Lee Marvin) in the film and the sergeants name is Sgt. Bowen.
Everybody in that prison was there because of being found guilty in a fair trial.
As to the kid released from Cuba.....
The kidnapped Afgan citizens in Gitmo have never been charged, never had a fair trial therefore they must be "presumed innocent" until proven guilty. For the Americans to practice a policy that can only be described as the "law of the jungle, American style" is hypocrisy, plain and simple.


User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1745 times:

I think the TSA here at home should build some "camp x-rays" here. It looks like the Guantanamo camps are going to be a great Bush success story.


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1729 times:

Sorry, didn't remember the spellings, thanks for the correction Photopilot.

But you are incorrect about something.

Jefferson was conviicted for murder when it really was an act of self defense......remember

Or maybe I should have just let those cracker bastards go ahead and castrate me




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinePhotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2744 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1708 times:

Jefferson was conviicted for murder when it really was an act of self defense......remember

Or maybe I should have just let those cracker bastards go ahead and castrate me


How right you are L188, so the trial for Jefferson (Jim Brown) was indeed "unfair", but there WAS a trial, something the Gitmo prisoners don't even get. Jefferson also had legal representation (lousy as it turned out) and did have formal charges against him. Again something the Gitmo prisoners don't have.

But hey, didn't you just love Telly Savalas as Archer Maggot? He sure came from the shallow end of the gene pool.
Other great roles in the film were John Cassavettes as Victor Franko, Donald Sutherlannd as Vernon Pinkley, and Charles Bronson as Joseph Wladislaw.

By the way, the novel by E.M. Nathanson sits on my bookshelf. Great book.
Steve


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1684 times:

See, I have never read the book. That is probably where I have screwed up the names, I don't recall them ever using Maggots name, just the his initials during the starting sceens, when Sgt Bowen is reading the roster for the first time.

But still, there still is no evidence for you to claim that those fella's are going to never get a trial. Those that need one will get one.

And something like 600 of those that haven't so far, have been released.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKrushny From Spain, joined Dec 2000, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1648 times:

My uncle also had some good times when he was imprisoned for a couple of years after our Civil War, for some time he was even under a death sentence which fortunately was commuted later. His cellmate was an Irish Brigadist who taught him English, very useful for my uncle as he later made a living by teaching English. He got something from his prison time but still this does not make fair what the Franquist state did to him.
My father could say similar things about the year he spent in various concentration camps in Spain. Hey they even fed him when half of the countrys population was starving ! And he had the opportunity to visit Africa!


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1590 times:

And a lot of those that are not deserving of charges have been released, these three kids being the latest example.

And a lot haven't. Don't you find a problem with the US detaining kids, without charges, indefinatly? That's what happened to these kids.

Most haven't been charged with anything whatsoever.


User currently offlineCOmmander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

Ah my favorite subject.

Yes, let the trials begin. And let the guilty verdicts roll in.

End of story.



Mohammed Ismail "Havin' a good time" Agha

Sorry to disappoint the critics of the US policy of detaining "illegal combatants.







User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1569 times:
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Well they are screaming for all those terrorists and detainees to be released!

Does the phrase "Innocent until proven guilty" ring any bells?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
25 Greg : Not when it applies to known terrorists or suspected enemies of the State.
26 Post contains images Scbriml : Not when it applies to known terrorists or suspected enemies of the State. And you know this because: 1 - GWB or the CIA or the TSA says they are 2 -
27 Banco : Greg, if the concept of justice doesn't apply to everybody then it is meaningless. How can detention without trial equate to justice? The US constitut
28 Leviticus : Banco, as far as I know the US constitution only applies to residents or citizens of the US of A, or am I wrong ?
29 777236ER : Not when it applies to known terrorists or suspected enemies of the State. Suspected enemies?! So now anyone suspected of being an enemy of the State
30 Banco : Leviticus, of course the US constitution only applies to the US, but the values are meant to be universal.
31 Photopilot : Not when it applies to known terrorists or suspected enemies of the State. Holy smokes Greg... how can you write nonsense like that. "know terrorists"
32 Indianguy : PRETTY LAME! Even by GWB's standards! F I L L E R
33 Post contains links Leviticus : Here is a BBC report of the story, interesting interview with the guy. http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/39858000/rm/_39858411_guant18_north_vi.ram
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