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Putin Dismisses Entire Government  
User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1132 times:

Am getting word in from people in Moscow that a mere 10 minutes ago, Vladimir Putin went on Russian TV and announced that he was dismissing the entire Federal government.

Not entirely sure as to why Putin has done this, but I am sure reasons will come to light in the coming hours.

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSimpleMinded From Turkmenistan, joined Feb 2004, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1121 times:

I have no idea, but can he even do that?





ciao
SM



Um, I like..... yea ok
User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1114 times:

Of course he can SM -- he's the President Big grin

Russian presidential elections are coming up on 14 March, and with the election process, the government steps down anyway -- so the end of this current government would have come to an end then -- but what Putin has done is basically sacked the government now -- Kasyanov is out -- Khristenko is in as temporary Prime Minister.

Will have to see what is happening with this, but one thing is for certain, Putin is obviously showing his hand early -- tighten his grip on power in Russia -- there are still too many Yeltsinites in the Russian government (re: Kasyanov) -- something which does stop Putin from doing the job effectively for which is elected to do.

[Edited 2004-02-24 14:53:36]

User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1051 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1090 times:

"there are still too many Yeltsinites in the Russian government (re: Kasyanov) -- something which does stop Putin from doing the job effectively for which is elected to do."

What do you mean with that? too many alcoholics? old guys?



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1082 times:

It means Kasyanov is a leftover from the days of Yeltsin. Under the new government, which is now being thought will feature Khrischenko (won't know for sure until after Presidential elections), Putin is going to be pushing for a return of Russia as a superpower -- he has every intent of doing as much, and needs the team with him -- the days of Yeltsin-esque politics and the oligarchs in Russia are drawing to a close, and there will be a total redefining of Russia in the next 4 years under Putin, when he is re-elected.

User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1070 times:

C an we do that here ?, can the entire Federal government just get together and sack Bush ?

J


User currently offlineJutes85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1060 times:

Russia needs the right people to lead the country into prosperity. Putin might be that man to give the only superpower of the this world a run for its money.

User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1045 times:

C an we do that here ?, can the entire Federal government just get together and sack Bush ?

It's called impeachment. Sure you can. Just remember, though, that the last President to go through the impeachment process was Clinton...... and he won by a hair.



"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineSonic From Lithuania, joined Jan 2000, 1670 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 994 times:

It seems new prime minister was taken. He was previously unkown person and, according to V. Putin, "honourable man". However, it seems that he was chosen because he has no desire to go "higher" (for example, be president after Putin, since this term is Putin's last unless he changes constitution). Currently there are some reforms planned and a PM who will do them will probably loose popularity.

Russophile (Aviatsiya?), Putin certainly won't put Russia as superpower if he will continue current policy. Well, he might put it as a military superpower, but just as USSR example shown, a military superpower can't exist too long if not supported by economy. As I understand, you are not living in Russia and just you are obssesed with it for some strange reason. In which case you probably would want to see it as a mighty country, however, except for some old communists and nazi youth, I don't think many people in Russia would want their country to be mighty anymore than they would want it to be on economically better situation. You know probably about recent great flaws in military "tactical show" (don't know correct English term). They shows the current situation of whole Russian military - it is large indeed, it has some technology, mostly from Soviet times, which is still quite on par with western technology (but behind US). However, lack of funding, bribery (sons of richer parents doesn't go to the army because their parents just pays where it is needed) and other such problems brings it down. And without economical boost Russia will not be able to erase these problems (in my opinion).


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 994 times:

Russophile (Aviatsiya?)
------
So it isnt just me that thinks that  Smile



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineNorth County From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 987 times:

Sonic,

Your English might not be perfect but your summary of the situation is right on target.

I think the Russian people deserve more butter and less guns....

Russophile,

Did they reach you on your shoe phone?

[Edited 2004-03-04 00:56:01]

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 980 times:

Trust me, Russophile is NOT Aviatsiya.

User currently offlineNorth County From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 975 times:

is "Aviatsiya" the USSR airforce or navel airforce?

User currently offlineSonic From Lithuania, joined Jan 2000, 1670 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 975 times:

North_County,
Thanks for support of my opinion. Aviatsiya means "Aviation" in Russian. What I (and GKirk) meant was a certain former user, who was banned for flooding forums. He was non-Russian himself but very obsessed with Russia.

GKirk, I have had this thought almost since Russophile joined.

[Edited 2004-03-04 02:05:59]

User currently offlineNorth County From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 932 times:

Sonic,

Your welcome.

There is more then one person obsessed with Russia, God help us!


User currently offlineKolobokman From Russia, joined Oct 2000, 1180 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 923 times:

Why is it wrong to be "obsessed" with a country?
Sonic is a Lithuanian nationalist and North County is a yank  Smile

Putin certainly won't put Russia as superpower if he will continue current policy.

Why is that? What about that continuous economic growths since 1998? Current policy is what is moving Russia out of "the dark times". And military reforms underway will make Russian military only smaller ))



I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
User currently offlineSonic From Lithuania, joined Jan 2000, 1670 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 922 times:

North_Country, agree with you here too  Smile

Being obsessed with country to such extent as 'former member' was is quite ridiculous. You, being Russian, might not understand this (probably I would like if someone would be obsessed with Lithuania too), but imagine if person would be so obsessed with any other country. E.g. Iraq (this is directed at Saddam's Iraq). He would post in every related and many non related threads, tell how Iraq is the beacon of human rights, how wars against Iran and Kuwait were perfectly justifable (like that user posted about Chechnyan war), how mighty Iraq is and how it will win against USA, etc. It is OK for one or several threads, to support one or several political decitions of that country. But after it becomes widespread and person supports and defends litterally everything government of that country does, it becomes somewhat ridiculous. Heck, even me, as you labeled, "Lithuanian nationalist", don't agree with each of the decitions my government does  Smile .

Kolobokman, could you please prove your words and tell how is Putin's policy getting Russia out of dark times in your opinion (what dark times? economically? politically? internationally?)? Economic growths are in all eastern Europe and it's understandable, knowing the destruction of socialism. And Russia isn't one of countries which has the biggest growth, thus that growth doesn't really shows the situation. Except for 1998 crisis, under Yeltsin economy also grown.

[Edited 2004-03-05 03:41:11]

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 915 times:

"C an we do that here ?, can the entire Federal government just get together and sack Bush"

Of course, even the population can recall Bush (look at Arnold in California).

The BIG difference is that here there has to be a vote, over there they just do what ever the heck they want.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineNorth County From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 898 times:

Russia as a super power was a good thing for our family business in the 1960's and 1970's.

They built many a bomb shelter in La Jolla, Ranch Santa Fe, and Del Mar, CA.

Now they are all being used as wine cellars I guess,.....have to blame Reagan for the drop off in sales...

Russia has to have 10- 15 years of sizable economic growth that outstrips the world average before they will be one of the top two superpowers again....

and all the will their stock pile of nukes is getting older everyday....


User currently offlineBen From Switzerland, joined Aug 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 887 times:

There is more then one person obsessed with Russia, God help us!

Nobody is 'obsessed' with anything. Using your definition, I'm also be classed as being obsessed with it too... actually, I'd move there tomorrow if it was possible.

It's just that someone has to defend, or at least present to you, the other side of the picture.

In the 'west' and particularly the USA, we still seem to have a pretty bad cold-war hangover.

Be enlightened.


User currently offlineNorth County From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 882 times:

Ben - Humor

"Oh God" in this case was said in humor.

Now why does someone have to defend something unless they believe what they are writing in the first place? Argue for augment sake?

What is a "bad cold war hangover?"

Comments about Russia returning to it's former Soviet Superpower standing anytime soon or that the USSR didn't lose the Cold War are a little far fetched... and even more odd considering the poster who doesn't even live in Russia anymore....

Remember I am not the only one who has made these observations...


User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 873 times:

It seems new prime minister was taken.

This is true. His name is Mikhil Fradkov

He was previously unkown person

Actually, he was Russia's highest representative in Europe. Previous posts include Minister for Foreign Economic Relations, Deputy Secretary of the Security Council and Director of the Federal Tax Police.

And he is far from being 'unknown'. The Russian Defence Minister, Sergey Ivanov, talked highly of Fradkov, and even suggested to Putin that he would be an excellent successor to Kasyanov.

according to V. Putin, "honourable man".

Well he does seem to be 'honourable' -- he isn't tainted by scandal -- he doesn't have his snout in a trough -- etc, etc

However, it seems that he was chosen because he has no desire to go "higher" (for example, be president after Putin, since this term is Putin's last unless he changes constitution). Currently there are some reforms planned and a PM who will do them will probably loose popularity.

Actually, he was chosen not because of what you imply -- partly that may be true, but moreso because he has experience in both the Soviet and post-Soviet economy and has a very liberal economic outlook on what needs to be done in Russia -- he will appoint Alexander Zhukov as his deputy -- another respected liberal economist. Putin and Fradkov have very similar views on what needs to be done in Russia -- yes, some of it will be publicly unpopular -- but by appointing a bureaucrat instead of a career politician, Putin is ensuring that he will be reasonably untouched by the economic rationalisation which will occur -- rationalisation which within 10 years is expected to double the GDP of Russia. By remaining untouched by this, it will allow Putin to continue on with the programs which he wants to implement which will allow Russia to once again be called a great nation.

Putin certainly won't put Russia as superpower if he will continue current policy.

This is the plan of Putin. Tell me exactly what with Putin's policy won't contribute to Russia becoming a superpower again.

Well, he might put it as a military superpower, but just as USSR example shown, a military superpower can't exist too long if not supported by economy.

Who said anything about military superpower?

As I understand, you are not living in Russia and just you are obssesed with it for some strange reason.

I've been there before -- know the people -- know the culture. How many times you been there again?

In which case you probably would want to see it as a mighty country, however, except for some old communists and nazi youth

What do you mean nazi youth? I thought the Lithuanians had all the nazi's these days? You know, the nations largest newspaper running a blatantly anti-Jewish article on the front page, and just recently the Lithuanian president honouring Lithuanian Nazi collaborators.  Insane

I don't think many people in Russia would want their country to be mighty anymore than they would want it to be on economically better situation.

And what do you base your opinion on? You actually asked any Russians?  Insane

You know probably about recent great flaws in military "tactical show" (don't know correct English term).

So. It's called a SNAFU -- Situation Normal All Fucked Up. You show me a full-scale military program which hasn't had a couple of failures in testing, and I'll resign to you that everything you have written isn't a load of rubbish.

They shows the current situation of whole Russian military - it is large indeed, it has some technology, mostly from Soviet times, which is still quite on par with western technology (but behind US). However, lack of funding, bribery (sons of richer parents doesn't go to the army because their parents just pays where it is needed) and other such problems brings it down. And without economical boost Russia will not be able to erase these problems (in my opinion).

Actually, what it shows is that you are generalising here to such an extent, you are presenting things as fact, when in reality it couldn't be further from the truth.

And what's your problem if I have an affinity for Russia? I have a deep interest in language, culture, society, and of course aviation. You seem to think I write that Russia can do no wrong. This is an huge assumption on your part. But I won't sit idly by and watch the bullshit which has been written about Russia over the last 100 years to continue to be written and believed by idiots who are not capable of critical thought.

The BIG difference is that here there has to be a vote, over there they just do what ever the heck they want.

The BIG difference is that you don't know what you are talking about. Anything which Putin has done has been within the confines of the Russian constitution -- a document which was VOTED on by the Russian population.


User currently offlineSonic From Lithuania, joined Jan 2000, 1670 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 869 times:

I was in Russia myself two times, in Moscow and Kaliningrad Oblast.

Well, Lithuania has no nazi parties or any far right parties for that matter. Never a far right politician was in parliament. Same goes for anti-semitic and other such politicians. There were a few who tried to be lected, but no one was. As for supposedly "largest newspaper", it is actually a second largest tabloid, which also called many famous Lithuanian people gays for no reason in past (e.g. "famous singer Virgilijus Noreika is gay, because so said his wife in their divorce" - and whole page dedicated for this article), etc. It writes such things just to attract attention. This is exacly what was written in that editorial of that tabloid:
"The only two groups I can't write about are gays and Jews"
In Lithuania nazis are a very localised part of society. Not so for Russia. There is many nazi youth, especially in smaller towns. You abviosly know facts how anti-semitic messges were left which had bombs (and they exploded when people tried to take these message off). You know about all the anti-muslim nazi things also. And anti-Baltic (people like me). Foreigners are attacked just for being foreigners in smaller Russian towns.
As for Lithuanian president, I am not sure what you mean. Some old nazi (over 60 years old) with his group of probably ten people, said taht they supports president and were present while he said his speech. President condemned them next day.
Just by the way - in an international poll where people were asked about opinions on certain other nations/races/religions (e.g. Jews, muslims, blacks), Lithuania had the least racists of all European nations.

As for how I know Russian opinion, believe me, there are enough Russians in Lithuania and I know Russians elsewhere too. Of course, as I said, there are nazi youth and old communists - these groups wants Russia to be superpower again more than they wants it to be a rich country. I am not saying that these groups are a small minority either.

Well, could you please say what acts of Russia you DON'T support? All the things I write about Russia is supported be facts. I will admit that what I written about current political situation, however, maybe was not exacly correct as I just wanted to bring this thread back because Fradkov became new prime minister. However, I am always trying to write truth - remember, there are lots of Russians in Lithuania and I speak with some of them on internet too. Don't compare me to "just another person speaking bad about Russia" please.

Also, I will ask you why do you support (if you support) these Russian policies: attacks on Yukos (arrest of Lebedev and Khodorkovski), other "fighting" done by Putin against rich people who doesn't supports him. Also, the recent arrest of two Quatari sportsmen in supposed response of Quatari arrest of two Russian terrorists.

As now I understood completely, you really are Aviatsiya. Well, wellcome back.  Insane

[Edited 2004-03-05 22:59:26]

User currently offlineNorth County From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 867 times:

We have a term in the US for someone who is so obsessed:

A wannabe.


User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 861 times:

You abviosly know facts how anti-semitic messges were left which had bombs (and they exploded when people tried to take these message off).

True. But this is a result of a few numbskulls in Russia. It isn't official policy of the Russian government. Just like how it may not be official policy in Lithuania.

Well, could you please say what acts of Russia you DON'T support?

Human rights abuses in Chechnya -- whilst I fully support the Russian aim in Chechnya, due to past terrorist acts by Chechens, I do not support reported human rights abuses by the Russian army against innocent Chechen civilians. That would be my number one grievance on Russian policies. Although, I don't believe that these abuses are as a result of high level orders, but rather are being made on a local level by unit commanders in Chechnya -- I might be wrong with that, but that is my belief.

attacks on Yukos (arrest of Lebedev and Khodorkovski)

I support this 100% -- they are oligarchs -- for those who don't know the oligarchs is a select group of individuals who after the fall of the Soviet Union, and in the post-Soviet craziness, used their government connections (mainly thru Yeltsin) to buy up LARGE strategic state enterprises at rock-bottom prices -- it was corruption, pure and simple.

I also wouldn't have any problem if Roman Abramovich was also arrested -- here you have a protege of Berezovsky who bought up large chunks of Sibneft, Rusal and Aeroflot at ridiculous prices -- he also bought himself a governorship in Chukotka -- laundered some money there under the pretext of development -- but it didn't help the region which is now bankrupt -- the day-to-day runnings of the region is left to Sibneft executives -- he is very rarely seen in Anadyr -- he much rather prefers the ski and beach resorts of Europe.

The days of the oligarchs are coming to an end under Putin -- whether they have political connections is irrelevant -- well not totally irrelevant, because it is those political connections which allowed them to basically steal from the people of Russia.

And the Russian people at large support this policy of Putin.

other "fighting" done by Putin against rich people who doesn't supports him.

Cite an example and I will comment on it

Also, the recent arrest of two Quatari sportsmen in supposed response of Quatari arrest of two Russian terrorists.

Two Russian terrorists huh? GTFOOH. Why not present the full story. The facts are that Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev, a Chechen politician/terrorist (you'd probably call him a freedom fighter), who has long had links to Al Qaeda (evidenced by the fact that Al Qaeda has been operating in Chechnya), had been living with immunity in Qatar for 5 years -- the Qataris ignored repeated requests for extradition by the Russians. I will also add that both the Interpol, the UN and US had placed Yandarbiyev on a list of known terrorists. In mid-February he was killed in a car bomb in Doha. After the bombing, the Qataris arrested 3 Russian nationals -- one of which had a diplomatic passport -- the other 2 were members of Russian special forces who are fighting the 'war against terrorism' -- the Russian holding the diplomatic passport should not have been arrested in the first place. Qatar has yet to produce evidence that the 2 Russians who are now being held in detention are the ones responsible for the bombing. In response Moscow detained 2 Qatari athletes (who are believed to be Belarus nationals) on suspicion of terrorist ties -- one of the Qataris had over US$7000 on his person which was not declared, which in itself can lead to detention. Both sides have presented scant evidence on their respective arrests -- what has occurred seems to be a tit-for-tat diplomatic move.

Do I support this? Well it is hard to say, because the true details on both cases are not yet known.

So Sonic, let me ask you a question.

Are there any Russian policies which you DO support? Or are you just another who is so blind for your hatred of Russia and Russians in general, that you do not see a single good thing about Russia?


25 Sonic : Russophile, Although the racistic attacks in Russia currently are not supported by government, but the trend of neo-nazism is rising (look also to vot
26 Russophile : Let me start with your end. Thus I will tell one too - I support Russian stance against Iraqi war. The fact that this isn't a Russian action, but rath
27 Sonic : Russophile, Your post itself is very full of emotions so do not accuse that my posts are, you didn't answered most of my questions anyway. Tatarstan c
28 PHX-LJU : Sonic wrote: "Putin certainly won't put Russia as superpower if he will continue current policy. Well, he might put it as a military superpower, but j
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