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Germany's Foreign Minister...Wow  
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1228 times:

A friend of mine from Switzerland gives us a nice nugget: "I saw the most remarkable thing last night on German TV. [Foreign Minister] Joschka Fischer actually told an audience of Greens that the U.S. has been a force for peace in the world. He said that Pakistan and India had been on the verge of a nuclear confrontation and the only thing that stopped them was U.S. intervention. He also said that Israel had the right to exist, and to be left in peace. Who'd've thunk?"

http://www.nationalreview.com/impromptus/impromptus200402260858.asp

Telling that to a bunch of Greens is pretty brave.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1218 times:

More right wing nonsense from the National Review.

What debate are you trying to start? Here's a hint, try starting one with a credible source.


User currently offlineStartvalve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1214 times:

My question: Why did we stop India and Pakistan? think of all those US jobs the liberals are screaming about going there that would have come back if those two nuked each other.

Also it might have ended the weekly Indian aviation thread.


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7957 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1212 times:

Frankly, that's not news. Fischer has gained a lot of respect from politicians around the globe. That includes the government of Israel and the US administration.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21467 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1208 times:

Your stunned reaction says a lot more about your own skewed expectations than about Joschka Fischer... he´s been saying the same things all along!

Maybe your image of the "evil, america-hating old Europe" is just an illusion and the real world is much more interesting!  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1209 times:

LOL nice one Startvalve. And kudos to Joschka! I'm glad that someone in Germany isn't a turncoat against us.

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21467 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1199 times:

L.1011: And kudos to Joschka! I'm glad that someone in Germany isn't a turncoat against us.

He´s telling it like most people over here see it - no wonder his personal approval rating is (by far!) the highest of all german politicians (always in the 80% range).

He still was one of the driving forces behind the german opposition to the Iraq war - even before the french started giving Washington headaches.

Just take it as a sign that in the real world, matters are more complicated than "You´re either for the Iraq invasion or you´re an evil anti-american terrorist!"

You may believe this nonsense, but it doesn´t get any "truer" because of that. Respecting, liking or even loving the USA has nothing to do with blindly supporting every misconstrued adventure of it´s acting government.


User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1198 times:

I should imagine that the US really DID have a lot to do with diffusing seemingly imminent India vs. Pakistan hostilities.

Yikes, Startvalve, what are YOU trying to fire up? Regards...Jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7957 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1197 times:

Your stunned reaction says a lot more about your own skewed expectations than about Joschka Fischer... he´s been saying the same things all along!

And it's not only Mr. Fischer. I can not recall a politician who said otherwise.
This is really a non-issue here.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1176 times:

I'm not stunned. But it is an unusual thing to hear out of Germany. Americans don't hear German news the way Germans hear American news.

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21467 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1169 times:

MD-90: I'm not stunned. But it is an unusual thing to hear out of Germany.

No, it´s not. You´ve just started to listen for a change!

Try to find independent news coverage of the bygone months all through the Iraq invasion crisis and you´ll see it´s always been that way.

What has changed is that some parts of the american press have become somewhat ... exhausted, it appears.  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1159 times:

Typical stupid national review stuff. Presenting issues in a typical black and white manner. The Germans - as well as most people who don't read the trash in the review - know fully well that issues are more complex than the review's portrayal of them.

Of course the US has been a force for good - as well as a divisive force - in the world. It all depends on the issue and the scenario.


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1147 times:

Fischer has had probably the most-amazing career of a German politican since Willy Brandt. From a left-winging Sponti of the 60s to the by far most popular German politican (what would Schröder give for Fischer's approval ratings!), most respected European foreign minister, figurehead of all Greens and the living evidence that Greens can make sensible real politics.

The fact that he does have the balls to say "Yes, I was far-left 30 years ago and today I know that I made mistakes" just makes me respect him even more.


User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1125 times:

i cant wait till our two "americanguys" start posting stuff like "TERRORIST TIES FROM 70IES FOUND WITH GERMAN FOREIGN SECRETARY" straight from newsmax.com

and yes respect to him for actually fighting for what he believes in.



10=2
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1078 times:

The interesting thing about Fischer is that he is mostly self educated. He´s never been to college, but before his political career he used to work as a taxi driver in FRA. He kept a huge library in his home.
Also, some years ago he got hit on the ear by a paint bag, when he was justifying NATO involvement in Bosnia to his party. It burst his eardrum, very painfull, but he finished his speech. Some of his old friends said that 15 yearsearlier he would have gone downstairs and would have punched it out with his assailant.

Jan


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1073 times:

And yet I wouldn't have known a thing about him if it wasn't from the right wing nonsense and stupid National Review.

User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1057 times:

MD-90 wrote:

"And yet I wouldn't have known a thing about him if it wasn't from the right wing nonsense and stupid National Review."

Well, then you aren't trying hard enough. There are countless good English-language sources of news from Europe. Here are a few good ones:

Time (Europe): http://www.time.com/time/europe/

Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (Germany, English edition): http://www.faz.com

International Herald Tribune (published in Paris): http://www.iht.com/

The Guardian (UK): http://www.guardian.co.uk/

Transitions Online (Post-communist Europe): http://www.tol.cz

The Moscow Times: http://www.themoscowtimes.com

El Pais (Spain, English edition, PDF): http://www.iht.com/pdfs/elpais/ep1.pdf



User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1023 times:

I appreciate that, PHX. I have looked at the Guardian before, but not the others.

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 964 times:

Thumbs up to MD-90.

"Telling that to a bunch of Greens is pretty brave."

I don't think it's that brave anymore. Many Greens and their supporters have learnt that they won't get any further with their "back to the roots" utopia. Instead, they're trying to influence policies by getting elected and involved with things - a rather effective way, isn't it?

In addition to that, many Greens are children of middle-class parents who didn't like the way their parents earned their money (personally as well as figuratively), so they wanted to change things. But they are still children of middle-class parents, which means that you may very well find a Green who has rather conservative opinions on, for example, social policies, of the "You have to work for your money, otherwise you don't deserve much of it." kind.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 931 times:

Oh. That's not really what the greens (er, watermelons) are in the US.

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