Rabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1001 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1412 times:
I saw a documentary where it was said that during the 80's, George W. Bush was a serious alcoholic, which was said to have caused him messing up his oil firm and . They even quoted him, being affirmative on that. Moreover, he said that Jesus via Pat Robertson had helped him to live a sober life.
I am interested in your opinions:
do you think it was indeed Jesus who saved him?
do you think that Jesus influence was strong enough to keep him away from brandy til the end of time? Clinically, many alcoholics have frequent relapses.
do you think his drinking behavior is monitored? what if they would notice that he is drunk all the time, would someone be able to take action?
I was always scared to hell when Boris Yeltsin, drunk as shit would give intervies to the press, babbling about world peace.
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1378 times:
Alcoholism is something that I have seen first hand in a few of my family members, some have recovered, others have not. I have a lot of respect for anyone who manages to quit long-term after a period of serious alcoholism (which by all accounts GWB's was.) It is an extremely difficult thing to quit entirely, and even more so for someone like a President (or govorner) who is expected to attend so many official functions, where alcohol is the main lubricant for discourse. As L-188 said, with his life and behaviour constantly under the microscope, it would be quite obvious if he ever had a relapse. When an ex-serious alcoholic relapses, he does it big-time.
Religion is frequently the path to alcoholic recovery. The idea is that if you are convinced that there is a higher power who will call you to account for ALL your actions and behaviour (including things that you might get away with, or that nobody saw you do), it provides that extra incentive to behave even when nobody is looking.
I'm no fan of Pat Robertson, but if that's the path that helped him to recovery, good for him.
Sabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1366 times:
with his life and behaviour constantly under the microscope
Why is this actually so popular in the US? Why is it so important to enlarge the private life of people like Bush? He recovered from alcoholism, and that's the most important thing (for which I have a lot of respect).
I will give you an example about Clinton and Monica: the hype around this was huge.
In comparision with our media in central-Europe: our own Belgian King (Albert II) apparently has a daughter somewhere living in the UK. This daughter is not coming from Paola (our Queen), but from a relation he had outside his marriage about 20? years ago.
This was mentioned in the news, but a few days after the press discovered this, we did not hear about this anymore.
I'm sure that a situation like Clinton-Monica would never have been an issue over here, like it was in America.
Airplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1349 times:
I think the US President is capable of concealing all sorts of things including personal "indulgences". Most past presidents have had peculiarities exposed after they leave office.
Bush's drug and alcohol abuse has been well documented, but it didn't seem to deter voters. But they sure are hard on any new guy trying to run.
Personally, I think Bush has licked his demons but they have probably taken their toll on his body.
Jesus? I don't think Jesus or God or Allah or any other deity restores your health or cures your addictions. People are responsible for their own "salvation" and if it is faith in Jesus that floats your boat, and inspires you to sober up then more power to you. Many who discover religion feel it gives their life meaning and purpose. Helpful for anyone with low self esteem like druggies and alcoholics.
TYSGoVols From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 634 posts, RR: 17 Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1343 times:
Dude Jesus can't heal huh? I was born legally blind. However still legally blind my eye sight has been improving for a while. My Dr. can't explain it. Oh by the way it is a degenitive eye disorder. I am supposed to get worse with time no the other way around.
Sabena : It is not just here in the U.S. that scrutinize celebrities. One of the best examples of this I can think of was Princes Diana.
Rocky Top You'll Always be home sweet home to me, Good ole' Rocky Top WOOOOO
Airplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1333 times:
My Dr. can't explain it. Oh by the way it is a degenitive eye disorder. I am supposed to get worse with time no the other way around.
And why did Jesus single you out out over the thousands of children that are blinded by totally preventable diseases?
Just because a doctor can't explain something doesn't mean Jesus stepped in. There are several processes of the human body we don't understand...yet.
We can cure and treat a great deal of ailments these days that we were at the mercy of "Jesus" to deal with in the past. Did the doctors just take the workload off Jesus with these new cures? If so, why doesn't Jesus help the less fortunate more often?
I am not trying to attack your faith or even convince you to abandon it. But unless you have some proof that your eyesight was restored by "Jesus" don't bother stating it...
Zak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8 Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1321 times:
"You can't explain something so you blame it on Jesus? "
exactly the reason why religion exists, to make life more understandable to people who are looking for that comfort.
its all good as long as people who feel religion is beneficial to them dont try to spread it out to other people and want others to live in accordance to beliefs people dont necessarily share.
JA54123 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 137 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 1298 times:
The documentary was wrong on who helped the President with his religion. It was Rev. Billy Graham, not Pat Robertson. As far as alcoholics going back to the drink, there are many people that can successfully beat that addiction and never ever go back to it for the rest of their life. I have a family member that is coming up on 30 years sobriety, and his drinking was bad enough that he almost died. I think that the President is still sober and will not go back to drinking. He has found a way to deal with it (every person has a different way) and if it works, then more power to him.
When he was first running for Governor of our state, the sitting Governor (Ann Richards) attacked him for being a recovering alcoholic. This was one of the most stupid things to do for a person who themselves is a recovering alcoholic.
TYSGoVols From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 634 posts, RR: 17 Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1289 times:
There are no processes that the doctor could have performed to regain my eyesight in the slightest. As for proof all I have is my faith. He told us in Isaiah that by his stripes we are healed. In the Bible all of the people that we have recorded as being healed are the one's that exude faith. However, when the apostle Paul asked for healing of a "thorn in the flesh" God told him "my grace is sufficient for thee". I have not been totally healed and am still legally blind however it is improving why? I have absolutely no idea but, I praise God for it.
Rocky Top You'll Always be home sweet home to me, Good ole' Rocky Top WOOOOO
BN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5460 posts, RR: 52 Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1231 times:
Yeah NWA742, and Bill Clinton smoked pot and lied to the whole nation over a sex scandal.
Let's examine this...
Bill Clinton smoked pot
Yeah so...what college student his age didn't? He said it was just once..which obviously was a lie..but if did it a year straight..big deal? Who did he hurt?
He lied to the whole nation over a sex scandal.
You'd lie too if cameras and the whole nation were watching you answer this question...'How many times did you polish the sword this week?' this site is anonymous..and you'd still lie answering that question. Of course he lied just like anyone of the lawyers asking the questions..they would have lied too!
Bush has been, still is, lying about Iraq...and the the death toll is now what? So I ask you...which lies are more costly to the nation??? Pot smoking? A blowjob? A cause to start a war?
Answer with a straight face if you can...
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
NWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1213 times:
Yeah so...what college student his age didn't?
Well, me, for one, and a lot of others who didn't flunk out of college due to drugs and lazyness.
Not everybody does that kind of crap.
He said it was just once..which obviously was a lie..but if did it a year straight..big deal? Who did he hurt?
Well, he willingly broke the law, and obviously killed a little too many of his brain cells in the process.
You'd lie too if cameras and the whole nation were watching you answer this question
Bullcrap, I would tell the truth and not hide like a pansy from my own wrongdoings.
Bush has been, still is, lying about Iraq
That's your opinion, yet you state it like a fact. So far, no WMDs have been found in Iraq, so far. That could change any day, but chances are it won't. This doesn't mean Bush lied, ok? This means that he and the information they had was wrong. He said he BELIEVED there were WMDs in Iraq, based on the intelligence he had recieved. He didn't directly lie to the nation. You cannot compare that with what Clinton did. Clinton PURPOSELY and DIRECTLY lied to the nation, Bush did not. Bush was wrong about a war, he didn't lie about a war.
Airplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1209 times:
don't be an asshole about it.
I'm really trying not to come off like that....but my simple request was to provide proof. And he couldn't even come up with circumstantial evidence.
My original post gave him plenty of room to state that his faith is his salvation. I truly believe that faith inspires us to become better and sometimes even heal. But instead I get "Jesus can't heal huh?"
If you want to debate or discuss the topic be prepared to back up your claims. If you want to dispute one person's statements, feel free but again be prepared to explain yourself accordingly. I don't think I need to pussy foot because this particular person has defective vision. You certainly didn't beat around the bush Dash8King when you implied I was being an asshole....
NWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1206 times:
but my simple request was to provide proof
Faith means you rely on your belief in the absence of proof my friend.
You obviously don't understand why and how some people believe the way they do, and you judge them like an ignorant fool.
What I find laughable, is that this is simply one more attempt of a cheap shot towards Bush from you, Airplay. Bush is just one of millions of people who find salvation in their religion and belief of a god, yet you pick on him. Pretty sorry, buddy.
Airplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1195 times:
Faith means you rely on your belief in the absence of proof my friend.
Yes. Thats the statement most of the "faithful" hide behind. Let's get down to the real issue within the issue here.
I said "I don't think Jesus or God or Allah or any other deity restores your health or cures your addictions. People are responsible for their own "salvation" and if it is faith in Jesus that floats your boat, and inspires you to sober up then more power to you." Is that an attack on someone's faith? I certainly don't think so. I am imposing my beliefs (or disbeliefs) on anyone? No.
Then I get a response that Jesus does in fact heal and there is proof. I guess God and Allah and Buddah don't, but Jesus apparently does. I asked for proof and I get the typical theological two-step. If I was answering my post, I would have said something like "My faith pulls me through and it is in my faith I find comfort." But instead I get essentially "Airplay you are wrong, faith in Jesus cures people and I have proof". (OK I'm paraphrasing here)
Be faithful, be happy. I'm happy for you. Can't answer my question, fine. Don't feel like debating, OK. But don't try to convince me that I can't have an intelligent debate on this in fear of hurting someone's feelings because they are faithful or disabled in some way.
Cheap shot against Bush? I didn't start this thread. Besides, I don't think I stated anything about Bush here that is derogatory.
25 BN747: NWA742 your pot reply was outright insipid. Dr. Kary Mullis is a Nobel Prize winning scientist who still advocates smoking pot and has done every drug
26 Startvalve: "Bill Clinton smoked pot Yeah so...what college student his age didn't? He said it was just once..which obviously was a lie..but if did it a year stra
27 BN747: And how many others are dead -and will die-- from War-related lies? All lies aren't equal, some do far more damage than others..they can even cost liv
28 MD11Engineer: Back in college I used to smoke pot as well, but normally being a non-smoker, I simply couldn´t inhale the stuff, because it gave me a coughing fit.
29 ProSimTec: Nobody is perfect. Perhaps the most truthful statement in this entire thread. However, do you think ,either side will admit that when they attempt to
30 TYSGoVols: Fine here is some correlational evidence. I am the only person that my Dr. knows of at least that he has seen in his ten or so years of actual practic
31 Airplay: OK Garen. I believe that you truly have faith in God and that you feel God cured you. But doesn't that bring up a plethora of fundamental questions ab
32 NWA742: NWA742 your pot reply was outright insipid. Dr. Kary Mullis is a Nobel Prize winning scientist who still advocates smoking pot and has done every drug
33 Dc10guy: Remember the "pretzel" incident ??? I'll bet he fell because he was drunk ...
34 EmiratesA345: I don't understand how some of you can compare Bush lieing about war and Clinton lieing about a blowjob (His sex life is none of anyone's business BTW
35 BN747: EmiratesA345...it's logic that completely escapes me too! I personally think it's a genetic flaw in mental wiring ! BN747
36 Dc10guy: BN747, You speak the truth my friend .... I've been to 2 different doctors in 2 different states and both wanted me to take prozac after a 5 min exam
37 NWA742: He was either drunk or high! Pretzel my ass! So he choked on beer, or the pot cigarette he was smoking? Oh wait, it's just another vast right-wing con
38 BN747: Dc-10guy thanks, I know it to be true because one friend who works for a doctor and another who is in phamecuetical sales...and they readily admit the
39 Dc10guy: BN747 A friend of my family works at a corporate owned dental office. One day she found out that one of the dentists was let go. Later she found out t
40 NWA742: It would be nice if a drug company came up with the "common sense" pill....Lots of our friends here could use it a ??? Yes, it certainly would. -NWA74
41 BN747: NWA742, I apologize for the 'dumbass' remark. But as far as the pot's concerned, I don't know the chemical break down of the stuff..but it is a natura
42 Superfly: What was Dubya's drink of choice? Was he in to Johnny Walker, Knob Creek, Jim Beam, Jack Daniels, Budweiser, Samuel Adams or Cold Duck? Even though he
43 Bruno: Superfly Cold Duck? LOL! Nah, W is more of a Makers Mark kinda guy.
44 Dc10guy: In all fairness to poor George... If I had a wife as ugly as Laura I'd drink a lot too ...
45 Superfly: Dc10guy: That was a good one! I always thought she looked like Martin Short in drag.
46 TYSGoVols: I think she looks better than Hilary though. Bill's taste in woman was almost as bad as his political decisions. In Christ Garen B.
47 Superfly: TYSGoVols: I disagree. Hillary Clinton is much better looking than Laura and Monica Lewinsky is very attractive as well. I can't wait till Hillary bec
48 Dc10guy: I don't know about you Superfly, But I would do Hillary. I couldn't do Laura after a fifth of Crown for Christ sake. When it comes to putang I'm non-p
49 TYSGoVols: Ok that comment degenerated in a hurry and there is no way. Hilary is in comparison to say Rossie for looks. I give you she is less manish that Rossie
50 Texan: Lookit...if y'all've read any of my previous posts, you'll know that I'm not Dubya's biggest fan. However, kicking alcoholism is a tremendous feat, an
51 Bruno: Texan Kudus to Dubya for kicking alcoholism I agree, now it's time to kick Dubya!