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Americans In Favor Of Torture  
User currently offline747-600X From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2795 posts, RR: 14
Posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1877 times:

Today, a teenager by the name of Lee Boyd Malvo was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Malvo killed a man when he was seventeen and under the guide of John Allen Muhammad, who killed several others during an infamous several-week killing spree, here in America.

In response to this sentence, let me express what must be prefaced as my personal opinion:

This is incivil, inhuman, and outright torture. This child, who made a mistake of inordinate proportion, will never see the light of freedom again. His mistake warrants gargantuan reparation, but none has been granted. The family of the deceased will gain nothing, and this child will be destroyed. Better, for certain, to have sentenced him to death, than to let him rot, forever, in a cell.
What Malvo needs is help, and lots of it. Therapy, counselling, and psychiatric evaluations. I will tell you plainly that any of several million teenagers in America would, if under the right pressure or conditions, act in ways which would surprise and scare the living h_ll out of you. Malvo's acts were, of course, horrific and wrong, but all that has happened now is that we have denied him his humanity and stuck him in a hole. Of course, there are those who say, "He deserves it." Let me make this point clear: No one deserves it, and certainly not a child. At Malvo's then-age, 17, he was in as confused and discombobulated a stage as any teenager is. It's important that he be held accountable for his actions and made to pay for them in a manner which will teach him right from wrong, but now, instead, I and all other Americans will be paying for him to spend the rest of his life decaying. That kind of treatment is definitively torture. It is not only as bad as what he has done, it is worse. It does nothing to correct a wrong or let learning or healing come from it; it merely increases the amount of death and destruction in the world. I cannot call that justice.

Also, there are those who would say, "You'd feel differently if you were the family." To which I must reply: Probably, which is a good thing. The law should be about more than revenge, so it's good that I and the jury weren't family. Our reaction should be more unbiased and level-headed, able to see past the deed to the cause, which clearly is mental ailment of one degree or another.

So, to Lee Malvo, I say this - hopefully, there will come a time when an executive is given the power to pardon you under condition of intense mental treatment and close monitoring. Until then, I see no virtue in destroying one life simply because another was destroyed, so I hope the best for you. Empathy makes an offal ass out of one, but I cannot choose to be apathetic, so I'll be an ass, and wish for your wellbeing the same.

In conclusion, I must expound on the comment made that, "the family will gain nothing," which many would say is untrue. Many would say that the family will gain "peace of mind" or something like that. That is not true. In a fight, you do not gain true peace of mind by winning or beating the bully up. It inflates something egoistic and sick, it sets you to beleive that destroying one person is good enough to make up for the destruction of another. So, to the family of the deceased, let me say this: I would hope that you do not find peace of mind from this, for now you have multiplied the destruction of humanity two-fold. Your son cannot come back to you; I hope you understand how sick it is to find satisfaction in knowing that someone else's can now never come back to them.


"Mental health is reality at all cost." -- M. Scott Peck, 'The Road Less Traveled'
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6340 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1863 times:

This "child" as you put it, should never see freedom again. If, as you seem to think, he was manipulated, he belongs in a mental institution for life. But then I admit to knowing right from wrong when I was 16 years old.

And the governor who pardons this piece of crap has yet to be born.



Damn, this website is getting worse daily.
User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1857 times:

He should've definitely recieved the highest penalty. I'm not wasting tax dollars on some kid who *should be* by your views, treated. At 16, you should know what's going on.


I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3086 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1857 times:

I think you stand mostly alone here...This "child" had a sick passion for sniping innocent people. Something that will never change for him. I hope he burns to hell in the prisons. He was 17, he knew what he was doing....Sad as it is.


God Bless all those effected by these two "men's" terrible choices.


Chris



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

Anyone old enough to drive a car is old enough to be sentenced to death or life in prison. If you are not old enough for all adult responsibilities you are not old enough for any adult responsibilities.

There are a long list of adult prerogatives that 17-year-olds would like to claim for themselves including sex, drinking, drug use, and expressing opinions on the internet. Well guess what! Along with some of these things come the adult penalties. Happy birthday.

And just by the way, I knew precisely how wrong it was to kill a person when I was seven not seventeen.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineGo4EVA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1844 times:

Americans In Favor Of Torture

May you never be faced with someone in your family being slaughtered, in cold blood, for no reason, and then laughed over.

May God bring peace and comfort to those whose loved-ones were given no chance.


User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1839 times:

Its pretty disappointing he didn't get the death penalty, I would've loved to see that bastard fry with Mohammed. Any one over the age of ten should be able to be put to death for the crime of murder. The bastard laughed! He laughed after killing people.... Enough said, our justice system is a joke.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1830 times:

According to the evidence, this child actually did all the killing, not just a few as you suggest.

J


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1828 times:

This is incivil, inhuman, and outright torture.

As opposed to him taking the part in the murder of several people, and terrorizing a whole region? What do you suppose we do for him? Throw him a party, and celebrate what a fine chap he is?

In most cases, I'm not for the death penalty. but Muhammad deserves that sentence in this case, and since Malvo is basically underaged, I have no problem with him getting the sentence of life without parole.

The title of your thread, by the way, is insulting to most Americans. This isn't torture, putting this kid behind bars for life. It's justice for all the lives he and that other nut played fast and loose with.

Just wait, gang, if OBL gets captured. Maybe our friend who authored this thread will come to his defense, too.


User currently offlineJutes85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

If you intentionally kill someone, without guilt or remorse, they should be executed. If you take a life, yours should also be taken.

BTW: Vitaly, I think you are a little too young to pay taxes.  Big grin


User currently offlineEmiratesA345 From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 2123 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1809 times:

If you don't want your tax money wasted on keeping him in prison for life, then maybe you would agree with putting him out of his misery and ending his life? There is no need for people like that.

EmiratesA345 Smile/happy/getting dizzy



You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

As opposed to him taking the part in the murder of several people, and terrorizing a whole region? What do you suppose we do for him? Throw him a party, and celebrate what a fine chap he is?

Now wait a minute, I don't think that 747 was saying that. He never insinuated or said anything of the above. If you read his post carefully, he says that the teenager should go through intense counseling and psychological therapy while detained, not just rot away in a jail cell.

There's no need for you to put words and ideas in his mouth.



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1782 times:

747-600X

You've made a big thing about him being a child. If a few days later he was old enough to be classed a man would that make it okay?

He was old enough to know right from wrong. I don't think there is any child in the world who is brought up to believe that murder is accptable. He may well have been lead astray, but ultimately he knew he was wrong.


User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1778 times:

I personally is against deathpenalty. No one deserves to die even tough the make a terrible crime. Have you ever been thinking that the executioner also commits a crime when he is opening for the gas to the gaschamber or when he injects the poison in another persons body? He should also be convicted then because he kills another person and get the deathpenalty. Correct me if Im wrong. But I just dont think its fair.

And I know that it sucks to pay taxes for inmates, I do it my self her in Denmark. so I agree with you on that. But it still isn't right to take another mans life because of money.


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1773 times:

If "without parole" means he will for sure die in jail, I think it's not only a stupid judgment, but a dangerous one.
What do you think will do this kid in jail if he knows he will never get out ? He will become extremely violent, and probably will turn crazy in a few years.
That's not a penalty.

He should have a life in prison with a possibility to get out in 25/30 years if some experts find him not dangerous anymore (in my opinion of course).


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1749 times:

He should have a life in prison with a possibility to get out in 25/30 years if some experts find him not dangerous anymore (in my opinion of course).

The people he killed don't have a chance to come back alive in 25/30 years, to get a "parole", do they? Neither should he, for such a horrible act. The penalty fith the crime.

Seb, don't you Europeans think ANYONE should pay an ultimate price for ANY crime?  Smile


User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1743 times:

don't you Europeans think ANYONE should pay an ultimate price for ANY crime?

Actually no...... Lets say it was any of your family members that was the shooter. Would you still accept that he/she gets the ultimate punishment? I dont think so. You would change your opinion of deathpenalty right away...


User currently offlineGo4EVA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

Actually, I think in many ways a "life without possibility of parole" sentence is harder to face.

As a long time tax payer, I'm more than happy to do my part to keep this cockroach in the "stone lonely" to the end.

Remember, the purpose of prison is to PUNISH not re-habilitate. This individual needs a LOT of punishment.

- Jeff


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1734 times:

The people he killed don't have a chance to come back alive in 25/30 years, to get a "parole", do they?

I find this argument sensless, and in a way, very extremist.
Do you think then that a raper should be raped ?
A thief should be stolen ?
An exhibitionist should put in front of a naked girl ? (  Smile/happy/getting dizzy )

Justice is not (anymore) made to make people have a vengence. That's the main point most Americans refuse to accept.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1732 times:

Actually no...... Lets say it was any of your family members that was the shooter. Would you still accept that he/she gets the ultimate punishment? I dont think so. You would change your opinion of deathpenalty right away..

First, I was talking about the Life Without Parole sentence, which to me, is an ultimate price, because there is no chance to literally see the light of day. And if it were a family member, and they did it, of course I wouldn't WANT them to face such a sentence? Who would? But sometimes, there HAS to be a consequence for our actions. Simply putting this youngster through some kind of counseling, and then letting him out when he's in his 40's, to me, isn't a stiff enough penalty for what he did.

Seems that punishment-true punishment, isn't something Europe wants to do to prisoners any more.


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1731 times:

Remember, the purpose of prison is to PUNISH not re-habilitate. This individual needs a LOT of punishment

It's partly true.
The problem is that if you don't try to keep the prisoners human, if they go out, they will still be beasts in the city.
In this case it's irrelevant, but if you don't try to re-habilitate a guy who spend 20 years in jail, you can be sure the society will be more dangerous when he's out than when he's in jail.
It means that all prisoners should be killed, doesn't it ?


User currently offlineGo4EVA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1731 times:

Justice is not (anymore) made to make people have a vengence

Careful, you're confusing "satisfaction derived from the punishment" (revenge) with the punishment act itself.

Fact: He will be in prison a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

Fact: Some people may derive a sense of "revenge !" from that.

However, the fact remains his punishment means:

Fact: He will be in prison a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.


User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1729 times:

Alpha 1

Sorry about my post then.
I thought you ment the death penalty when you mentioned the ultimate penalty. Because all the times I have heard the ultimate penalty on american television it has always been refered to the death penalty.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1727 times:

The problem is that if you don't try to keep the prisoners human, if they go out, they will still be beasts in the city.

Well, with Malvo, that isn't a problem, is it? He WON'T be coming out, so it's a moot point.

And there are, in most prisons, workshops and schooling that can take place, so that for those prisoners who have a reasonable or almost certain chance to get out, they will have a chance to be a better person in society. But that doesn't mean making it a country club, or to lessen their punishment.



User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1722 times:

Careful, you're confusing "satisfaction derived from the punishment" (revenge) with the punishment act itself.

I don't think so.
The need for a revenge is the reason why death penalty is still used for example. It has for sure to do with the Christian culture.


25 Go4EVA : It's partly true. The problem is that if you don't try to keep the prisoners human, if they go out, they will still be beasts in the city. In this cas
26 Go4EVA : I don't think so. The need for a revenge is the reason why death penalty is still used for example. It has for sure to do with the Christian culture.
27 Boeing nut : 747-600X, I can't believe that you think this situation is considered torture. I've seen some stupid statements made in this forum, but this one takes
28 Sebolino : As for the last part of your post (It has for sure to do with the Christian culture.), please comment. As a Christian I find that comment offensive. I
29 Go4EVA : Crime and punishment thereof exist universally around the world. The world is not universally Christian. Many punishments levied for crimes are more s
30 SlamClick : I grow a little tired of the "debate" over whether or not capitol punishment is a deterrent to crime. It cannot be proved absolutely until we can prov
31 FDXmech : Perhaps this post should be renamed, "Americans in Favor of Not Being Murdered".
32 Go4EVA : Perhaps this post should be renamed, "Americans in Favor of Not Being Murdered". I agree. We need permission from 747-600X not to be hurt or killed. W
33 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : If you don't want your tax money wasted on keeping him in prison for life, then maybe you would agree with putting him out of his misery and ending hi
34 ConcordeBoy : Lee Boyd Malvo Ps, what the hell ~is~ this monster's name anyways? The media started off as "John Lee Mohammad", then it became "John Lee Malvo", then
35 Cptkrell : SlamClick writes: "No person who was executed ever went on after being executed to commit so much as a misdemeanor." -and- "Prison is not so much abou
36 Post contains links MD-90 : When Malvo is tried in Alabama, he's going to get the death penalty. Just wait and see. Personally, I'd be more afraid of dying than knowing I'd live
37 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : And if Alabama doesn't, you can bet yer sweet bottom that Louisiana will....
38 Post contains images Cytz_pilot : Woah did I walk into the wrong topic!! Too many people foaming at the mouth here, wild with rage and revenge. I think some take the comments by 747 a
39 777236ER : While I have serious issues with the death penalty, the existance of it isn't really the question. The fact is that society and the law have a cut of
40 ConcordeBoy : it isn't really the question. The fact is that society and the law have a cut of age for adulthood But then it goes even beyond that... If we're going
41 777236ER : Wherewithin does complete and absolute accountability for your actions (particularly if said action violates the most sacred principle in western soci
42 L.1011 : This man is not a child. People should not be tried as juviniles when they're old enough to realize something is wrong. This 17 year old is not stupid
43 Lehpron : "If you intentionally kill someone, without guilt or remorse, they should be executed. If you take a life, yours should also be taken" If someone rape
44 N766UA : To anyone saying the death penalty is not a deterrant: I will never kill a person for any reason simply because of that penalty. If I knew I could mur
45 777236ER : This man is not a child. People should not be tried as juviniles when they're old enough to realize something is wrong This "man" is too young to vote
46 N766UA : He's old enough to serve in the military at 17, but yet he's still a child?
47 777236ER : If the State is allowed to take a significant portion of its citizens freedom or kill them, surely those who it affects should have the right to vote
48 N766UA : They do have the right to vote in politicans against the death penalty. They also have the choice of not killing anyone.
49 FDXmech : I say we release all these reformed victims of society and let them reside next to you and your loved ones. And should one of these people do harm aga
50 WellHung : This sucks, I was expecting REAL torture, not some murderer's rights bs.
51 Go4EVA : I was expecting REAL torture Starting on you ?
52 777236ER : They do have the right to vote in politicans against the death penalty. They also have the choice of not killing anyone. A child can't vote.
53 FSPilot747 : Kid doesn't get any sympathy. He got off easy. The little shit laughed. He laughed about it. Spare me the "he needs mental help" nonsense. Mental help
54 WellHung : Yes, Go4EVA, on me.
55 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : I'm sure many would be more than delighted to oblige
56 Post contains images WellHung : Wow, I'm honored. I've only been here 17 days and already "many" would like to torture me. Thanks for the info ConcordeBoy, "Speaker for the [m]Asses.
57 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : I've only been here 17 days ...not that it took that long
58 777236ER : Mental help is for people who are truly mentally insane, schizo, depressed, etc... This kid is neither So you accept he's a CHILD? How many psychology
59 Deltajax : Hopefully, he will be gang-raped and beaten to death in prison- Even though that won't come close to the pain and suffering he inflicted on the victim
60 L.1011 : Yes Deltajax, that's all we can hope for. Oh and 777, Can he drive? Yup. Can he decide the parent he goes with in a marriage? Yup. Can he serve in the
61 Jhooper : The bottom line is that he broke the law and should be punished according to law. If you don't like the law, then write your representatives and lobby
62 IMissPiedmont : "...... Lets say it was any of your family members that was the shooter. Would you still accept that he/she gets the ultimate punishment? I dont think
63 747-600X : Sorry 'bout the length of time between the original post and this reply, and about the length of the reply itself... He was old enough to know right f
64 Yyz717 : 17yo's know right from wrong. He does not deserve freedom ever again. The sentence was appropriate.
65 Go4EVA : Go4EVA: How can you be so apathetic? Just: how? The purpose of prison ought to be to re-habilitate. Why punish those who clearly are already on the br
66 Redngold : I happen to be one who believes in compassionate rehabilitation. There are bound to be a few truly hardened criminals out there, and Malvo may be one
67 Go4EVA : Don't misunderstand... I'm not advocating a regimen of daily torture for the guy. My only point is that we should ensure he does not leave prison prem
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