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Why Do So Many Gays Glorify HIV, As A Lifestyle?!  
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

I just don't get it.  Angry

Perhaps one of you can enlighten me (*paging Pigneil...*)

JCS17, of all people, made me think of a recurring theme: why do so many in the "gay community" glorify HIV infection/AIDS like it's such a great thing... or some sort of rite of gay passage?!






*******************************
Take this crap for example:
http://www.gay.com/content/slideshow/?coll=236&navpath=/channels/health/hiv/medicine/slideshow

Caption reading:
"They're smart, they're sexy, they're HIV-positive and they know what they like! Welcome to the "up" side of the gay coin -- 14 of our dreamiest poz Personals members who speak their mind while showing off their ... smiles

Cruise through our slideshow -- or seach through Gay.com Personals and score yourself a well-rounded hunk or two. Upgrade your Gay.com Personals account to Premium and you can even get a gander at some of the things Mama warned you about.

Think you're hot enough to be in the next Hot poz slideshow? Shoot us an e-mail here. We invite all HIV-positive Gay.com Personals members to submit themselves, regardless of gender, orientation or ethnicity.
"

********************

How @#$%^& depressing is that?!  Sad  Crying  Angry


51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

From that quote you posted, it appears to be an advertising gimic. It's pathetic, but that is all it is. I doubt people in general are that way, I certainly doubt "So Many Gays Glorify HIV, As A Lifestyle"

It's an Ad, don't jump to conclusions; tell that to Jcs17 sometime...

Although, there are people in the world who glorify dying via self-inflicted suicide bombs as opposed to nature related diseases. Do you blame them?



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineChgoan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

I can see why this looks crazy. I think what this is doing is showing that people with HIV don't sit in a hospital, alone, for the rest of their lives. That people (not just gays) who have HIV can live almost normal lives for a very long time. That you don't have to be a depressed sole and be singled out.

I don't think its glorifying HIV at all!!! Its not saying to run out and get infected because its a glorious life and things are better with it. Its not that at all!!!!!!!!!!!!


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2849 times:

It is depressing. Unfortunately, since HIV is now treated as a chronic condition (much like diabetes, hypertension, etc.) rather than a fatal condition, some people seem to think it's not a big deal, so they have this twisted logic that they should just get it and then they can stop worrying about getting it.

As a recent transplant to NYC, my perception is that one should assume everyone here has it. Before moving here, I always tried to have that philosophy anyway, as it motivates one to protect oneself. But it's really necessary to think that way here, as sadly, the majority of gay men in the city DO have it.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2842 times:

Its not saying to run out and get infected because its a glorious life and things are better with it.

While I realize what you're saying... I sometimes wonder if it's still the case:

A few months ago, I was boredly watching the general chat on gay.com, when on comes a 19yr-old (supposedly healthy) specifically seeking an HIV infected partner. Why, I and many others ask? ...because he thinks it's inevitable to queers, so just wants to get it over with.


Insane? Perhaps. Growing in commonality? I sometimes really wonder  Sad


User currently offlineChgoan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2825 times:

Well, the 19-year old has other issues then and is uneducated. I have the feeling that some gays see it as an excuse and just an easier way to deal with being gay. "My life is over because I'm gay and even more over because I could get HIV like any other person in this world, so I just give up" kinda attitude. Yes.....sad......and only causes more problems. I think it stems from lack of education.

User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2802 times:

>> "Well, the 19-year old has other issues then and is uneducated" <<

What are you assuming?

Maybe those with the disease are 'real gays' as opposed to those without the disease that are doing it for fun and not serious about a relationship. Maybe you'd rather be with someone who may not have to live long enough to morn over your death. Do any of us know these people, no. Can we make conclusions based on what they are saying? More info is needed to make them conclusive.

Again, I think that is an ad and the person that you claim to have seen might be the minority in the minority who believes HIV is cool. Don't take things for their face value, take their real value.

>> "I think it stems from lack of education" <<

IMO, that defines the creation of terrorism...but in terms of HIV, boths sides need educating, better drugs do not replace education. I do not see many folks shooting themselves up with Anthrax (not the band - I like them though  Smile )



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2794 times:

I don't think it was meant to put a positive (no pun intended) spin on having HIV because I imagine 95% (if not more) of those who are infected wish they weren't. And one of the main reasons for that is the social stigma that comes along with having HIV. The gay community is already pretty small and then when you have something like HIV it becomes that much smaller. Sure, most people won't care if one of their friends is positive. I mean, it's sad to see what they have to do and it's a reminder (hopefully) to protect yourself. However, for a positive (often referred to as 'poz' in slang) to date it's much harder. Very few people would risk a relationship with someone who's positive because they don't want to risk contracting the disease themselves. Therefore, HIV-positive people have to, in a sense, seek out other positive people for dating and relationships. I don't think gay.com, of all places, would be glorifying HIV and being positive. While I don't necessarily agree with all that gay.com does I do know that they would not exist if they actually supported such issues. The fact is, despite being relatively small, they gay community is spread across the economic and social disapora. You can't lump us into one set group because there will always be those that break the mould. Organizations like gay.com try and act as a bridge to bring us together by trying to put attention on all aspects of gay life...one of which is being HIV-positive. I don't think they were trying to put a spin on being positive like "Hey, we're positive! Look how fabulous it is!" but rather "Hey, I'm positive and so aren't my friends here and we just want to show people that being positive is not a death sentence (though I will one day die from it) and, if possible, I'd like to meet other positive people".

But, I think it this shows exactly what gay.com does. It has shown ConcordeBoy that there are other facets of gay life other than the clubby twinks, the pretty A&F crowd, the S&M crowd, and other "mainstream", visible groups. People often have the misconception that being gay you have to be this way or that way (which, gay or straight, is true to a certain extent) but that there are also groups of people, through extenuating circumstances, may fit into one of those groups but may also fit into others as well.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineAviaction From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 256 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2748 times:

ConcordeBoy

Curiosity got the better of me, I simply have to ask: Do you plan on a career in politics? Me thinks so. You have applied a method quite often used by politicians. Asking a question --- and presenting the contents as a fact.

By asking: "Why do so many gays glorify HIV?" you imply that factually many gays do glorify HIV. Is this true? Do you have any proof?

Shouldn't the proper wording have been: "Do many gays glorify HIV?", I wonder.

Rhetoric abilities should be used very wisely, otherwise they lead to dangerous rumours.

Personally, I would never even dream of asking "Why is ConcordeBoy always so rude?". People with a simple mind would forget after a while that it was just a question - and only recall the statement that ConcordeBoy is rude. And we wouldn't want anyone to believe that, would we?

Respectful flying to all of us.
Aviaction








German by nationality, European by heart!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

Do you plan on a career in politics?

Eventually, maybe... but doubt it



you imply that factually many gays do glorify HIV

I most certainly do [imply that]



Is this true?

I'd say it is



Do you have any proof?

At this point, probably none that could be deemed "indesputable"... but given due time/diligence, could prolly come up with enough as to sufficiently validate the general implication.



"Why is ConcordeBoy always so rude?"

...he's got French blood, why else?  Laugh out loud



and only recall the statement that ConcordeBoy is rude

I prefer the term "brutally honest"  










[Edited 2004-03-24 23:47:35]

User currently offlineAviaction From Germany, joined Nov 2003, 256 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

ConcordeBoy
Now I am even more intrigued:

If what you say is true

""Why is ConcordeBoy always so rude?"

...he's got French blood, why else?""


you should be one of the most charming persons on the net. Remember, that the words charme and etiquette are not only French by origin - but also very indispensible by nature for everybody coming from "La Grande Nation".

But then again, it was a question I would never ask, as it would be very rude. My French ancestors would most certainly turn in their graves if I ever forgot my good manners. It was only an example of how the way of phrasing a question can influence the reader/listener.

Civilised flying to all of us.
Aviaction








German by nationality, European by heart!
User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2705 times:

I agree that the advertising is just a gimmick. Its on par with a porn site advertising nasty fetishes like golden showers or shit-fetishes. But I see your point on one thing. People that get HIV through irresponsible behavior for some reason get a pass. You don't see that kind of sympathy for drunks that are injured in crashes or smokers that get lung cancer. HIV has to be one of the easiest fatal diseases to avoid getting yet people that have it are treated like they had leukemia.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4776 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

It shows that there are serious problems with basic sex ed and HIV outreach services if people think they've got little to fear once they are poz. Having unprotected sex with other positive guys raises the possibility of a "superinfection" of two different strains of HIV, which has been documented in increasing numbers. Then you're really screwed.

User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2673 times:

Look guys...

I had a friend, a close friend, who got AIDS back when people were still afraid of the disease being transmitted through casual contact. He was fired from his job as a financial advisor at a major New York bank when they found out he had AIDS.

There are still people out there who are incredibly ignorant about how one gets AIDS. Yes, my friend was a homosexual and probably contracted AIDS through sex with another male; yes, I saw his disease as a consequence of his actions (but NOT as a punishment for it); but he was a good person, a trustworthy advisor and a very special friend to me.

The point is, Alan deserved to be treated like a human being, not a reservoir of disease. He took precautions to make sure he didn't pass on the disease to anyone else. He took medication. He told people who did need to know.

In the last five months of Alan's life, he risked a lot for me. The man was dying of AIDS, and the last place an AIDS patient wants to be is in a hospital (unless a patient him/herself.) Yet Alan came to a hospital and snuck all the way in to the recovery room after I had surgery, just to be there for me. He fed me dinner once I was moved up to the surgical floor. His caring nature overrode his desire for self-preservation.

Alan died just short of his 40th birthday.



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineStartvalve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

My take on the ad is simple. People with incurable diseases which are sexually transmitted should not totally put their life on hold. This particular ad deals with HIV, there are similar boards out there for people with Herpes and a few other diseases.

If both people in the couple have the incurable STD they can have sex like normal people without fear of catching something they already have.


User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

I always thought you were straight. I don't think anyone glorifies or brags about HIV. However your right I'm not sure why they have that advertising it seems pretty stupid. People with HIV are people too but of all things highlight thats not one of them.

User currently offlineNonrvsmdmf From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2648 times:

Another interesting topic.....

The ads are probably just another porn promo but there could be another reason.

My roomate is HIV+. He works 12+ hours a day and is living a good life
considering. No he did not make the choice to contract HIV, but he has
made the choice to not sleep around.

Those with HIV have sexual needs like anyone else. Dont you think
the ads are to help those that are responsible enough not to pass
it one to someone not +?....hhmmmmm



I did not forget...I just misplaced the thought...
User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

The sad, blunt awful truth is that it's not the gays that glorify HIV, but the pharmaceutical companies and the advertising agencies that represent them. I have a partner of 8 years, and six years ago he was diagnosed and thank God it was early. He's had a couple of minor set-backs, but over all, his viral load is almost undetectable and T cell count is almost excellent for someone in his condition. I'm sure he along with MANY other people would only be to happy to dispel the glorification angle.  Insane
Gay's don't glorify HIV, the tradgedy is that even today many people, GAY and Straight are unfortunately very complacent about it. If you want to point the finger of GLORIFICATION, it should be pointed at ad execs. and drug companies. AND they perpetuate the myth that "hey, even if I do get it, they have all these great drugs and cocktails out now...it won't be a big deal".  Nuts



Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently offlineLucky727 From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 602 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2629 times:

Umm, from my experience I've never known any gay person who does.

This 'bug chaser' phenomenon is a few years old, and I think most of the hype around it is the media's fault. If a young gay person feels alienated, and thinks that by intentionally getting infected will bring him into a community where he feels a sense of belonging and self-worth, then he should probably 1) spend a few months in therapy, exploring his lack of self esteem; 2) spend a few more years in the gay community & get a little more life experience, and 3) maybe volunteer at a local HIV advocacy & support group to see what he's really getting into.

I came out 20 years ago (at 14) just as HIV began to spread. 20 years later I've lost 5 friends, but I'm close with way more than 5 survivors, and have managed to stay negative. It's pretty sad that younger gay men just coming out actually see this as a potential solution - and sadly points to a somewhat oversexed community that seems to have such incredibly shallow values on the surface.

(disclaimer - I know that last sentence is loaded, but it's also true and I worded it very carefully - so please think twice & re-read it before flaming me.)



··· [·] oooooooo [·] oooo oo ooooo [·] ooooooooooooooooooo [·]
User currently offlineConcord977 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1261 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2625 times:


Concordeboy,

First of all, why were you reading articles on http://www.gay.com? Is that where you spend your free time?

It is possible that the articles you have mis-interpreted were intended to offer some hope and alternatives for these people to consider (trying to still have fun and remain active in the world, for example). I would hardly call that "glorifying" a disease.

How many thousands of articles have been written about people coping with cancer, where the state-of-mind and level of exercise were mentioned as helpful ways to fight the disease? Yet, you focused on AIDS?

A psychiatrist would have a field-day with your observations and would ask you to study why you are projecting on this subject. Don't know what that means? Look it up. It is fascinating.




Curt / concord977
Washington, DC






No info
User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2606 times:

Guys: Not speaking for Concordeboy (God knows-he's quite capable on his own)  Laugh out loud He's just expressing frustation on what the ads project...And he has a valid point. Who cares if he saw it on Gay.com, Out.com, SouthernVoice or any other published magazine? He is bringing a valid point to the table and these ads do just that: they perpetuate the myth. Advertising is a very stong vehicle and of course the media utililzes it. Example: In OUT magazine, there are some tasteful ads. And some that kind of "push the envelope" for all kinds of products. They're selling to a selective audience and the gay population is not immune or an exception. Subaru has a ad for a SUV and there's this hot guy in that ad. To lead the consumer to quander: Wow, if I buy the SUV will I get him or some one who looks like him? OR, is he just included with the purchase?  Big grin And yeah, I see his point.


Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently offlineGo4EVA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2606 times:

Alan died just short of his 40th birthday.

It sounds like you had the very best kind of friend, Redn'. I am very sorry for your loss.

God bless,

- Jeff


User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4776 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

First of all, why were you reading articles on http://www.gay.com? Is that where you spend your free time?

LOL, its only probably the highest traffic gay website in existence...


User currently offlineConcord977 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1261 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

CPDC10-30,

What does that have to do with my question?

Are you saying that ConcordeBoy is gay, and therefore it makes sense that he should see www.gay.com often? Those things do not always line up like that.

If he is gay, I didn't know that. But nothing surprises me.

His original post was written from the perspective of a homophobe.



No info
User currently offlineSKYSERVICE_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1412 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

Concord977,

I think you nailed it right on the head. This post reeks of it (projection). Can anyone say Freudian Defense Mechanisms??


25 Post contains links and images ConcordeBoy : My French ancestors would most certainly turn in their graves if I ever forgot my good manners. Oh pish posh-- the only way those @#$%^s of mine would
26 Concord977 : ConcordeBoy, I took a look at "this" as you suggested. One mystery solved. The other? Not so much. All the best . . .
27 ConcordeBoy : the "other" being...?
28 Seb146 : This is old news but it still makes me sad. There are so many guys out there that feel they will be infected so why not just do it and get it over wit
29 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : If you are gay and want a serious relationship, go to a club Ah yes... ...liquored up, Xed-out, parent-dependent techno-twinks tend to make such stabl
30 Gigneil : This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever read in my life, and I'm especially offended by the fact it was started by a gay poster. Nobody WANTS HIV
31 A330323X : I'm going to have to agree with ConcordeBoy on this one. I find that a lot of poz men act like they're special because they've got something that the
32 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : and I'm especially offended by the fact it was started by a gay poster why? Nobody WANTS HIV, and nobody wants to glorify it. Disagree with both... an
33 Lucky727 : Umm, ConcordeBoy, I can't help but feel a bit justified at the comment: and I'm especially offended by the fact it was started by a gay poster Remembe
34 Concord977 : It would be easy to find fault with ConcordeBoy's views because, on the surface they seem to contradict OUR perception of how a gay man should feel.
35 Post contains images Gigneil : So maybe try to keep that in mind when writing...umm, I don't think you're one of those homophobic homos (please reassure us in future posts...?) He I
36 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : It seems that ConcordeBoy is both pleased with his orientation uh............. no comment AND it seems that he sees a lot in gay culture that doesn't
37 Gigneil : Your homophobic homoism. N
38 ConcordeBoy : Explain post #37 please... dont get that one either.
39 Post contains images Gigneil : I was answering what the Catholic church had to do with this. It warped your mind and made you a homophobic homo. N
40 MD-90 : I'm especially offended by the fact it was started by a gay poster. Wouldn't it have been more offensive if I'd started the topic?
41 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : I was answering what the Catholic church had to do with this. It warped your mind and made you a homophobic homo. Considering that I think the Catholi
42 Post contains images Lucky727 : C'boy - you're young, still (if your profile is correct?) Cut everyone a bit of slack. I remember going through the same phase of loathing the communi
43 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : C'boy - you're young, still (if your profile is correct?) I'm 22, for whatever that's worth Cut everyone a bit of slack. Based on what merit? I rememb
44 Lucky727 : As requested... '22' is worth about a dollar-fifteen. As I'm sure you'll find offense, youth is prized but not worth so much, actually. Sorry. Cut eve
45 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : As I'm sure you'll find offense Why would I take offense to a concept that's proven true more often than not? Sad point is, with homos... their mental
46 Post contains images Iflyatldl : Whoa! There's some bitterness there that reachs WAY past gay.com
47 Concord977 : ConcordeBoy is choosing his own path. It sounds like self-loathing, but it may actually be his chosen destiny. Gay people tend to not treat others we
48 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : maybe we should all chip in and buy him his IV equipment, hospital bed and a do-it-yourself will kit. Actually l was thinking more along the lines of
49 Concord977 : It does strike me as humorous when people refer to their mates as "life-partners", considering that most of them are on #8 or #9. Ooops, I'm sliding
50 Jessman : ConcordeBoy: "Actually l was thinking more along the lines of perpetual solitude despite zillions of "partners" thoughout life.... " This happens whet
51 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : considering that most of them are on #8 or #9. sh'yeah that's being generous; most could barely count their parners using both hands...... and that's
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