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10 U.S. Soldiers Die Today In Iraq Fighting  
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6422 posts, RR: 17
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20040404063009990001

Not to be confused with the thread about the Spanish.


 Sad




Ten U.S. Soldiers Killed in Iraq Violence
Number of American Service Members Killed Reaches at Least 610
By KHALID MOHAMMED, AP

NAJAF, Iraq (April 4) - Supporters of an anti-American cleric rioted in four Iraqi cities Sunday, killing eight U.S. troops and one Salvadoran soldier in the worst unrest since the spasm of looting and arson immediately after the fall of Saddam Hussein.

The U.S. military on Sunday reported two Marines were killed in a separate ''enemy action'' in Anbar province, raising the toll of American service members killed in Iraq to at least 610.





The rioters were supporters of anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. They were angry over Saturday's arrest on murder charges of one of al-Sadr's aides, Mustafa al-Yacoubi, and the closure of a pro-al-Sadr newspaper.

Near the holy city of Najaf, a gunbattle at a Spanish garrison killed at least 22 people, including two coalition soldiers - an American and a Salvadoran.

Fighting in the Baghdad neighborhood of Sadr City killed seven U.S. soldiers and wounded at least 24, the U.S. military said in a written statement.

A resident said two Humvees were seen burning in the neighborhood, and that some American soldiers had taken refuge in a building. The report could not be independently confirmed, and it was unclear whether the soldiers involved were those who died.

A column of American tanks was seen moving through the center of Baghdad Sunday evening, possibly headed toward the fighting.



The military said the fighting erupted after members of a militia loyal to radical Shiite Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr took control of police stations and government buildings in the neighborhood.

Protesters clashed with Italian and British forces in other cities in a broad, violent challenge to the U.S.-led coalition, raising questions about its ability to stabilize Iraq ahead of a scheduled June 30 handover of power to Iraqis.

With less than three months left before then, the U.S. occupation administrator appointed an Iraqi defense minister and chief of national intelligence.

''These organizations will give Iraqis the means to defend their country against terrorists and insurgents,'' L. Paul Bremer said at a press conference.



About three miles outside the holy city of Najaf, supporters of al-Sadr opened fire on the Spanish garrison during a street protest that drew about 5,000 people. The protesters were angry over the arrest of the cleric's aide, said the Spanish Defense Ministry in Madrid.

The attackers opened fire at about noon, said Cmdr. Carlos Herradon, a spokesman for the Spanish headquarters in nearby Diwaniyah.

The Spanish and Salvadoran soldiers inside the garrison fired back, and assailants later regrouped in three clusters outside the base as the shooting continued for several hours.

Two soldiers - a Salvadoran and an American - died and nine other soldiers were wounded, the Spanish defense ministry said. No other details were available.

More than 200 people were wounded, said Falah Mohammed, director of the Najaf health department. El Salvador's defense minister said several Salvadoran soldiers were wounded.

The death toll of at least 20 included two Iraqi soldiers who were inside the Spanish base, witnesses said.

Spain has 1,300 troops stationed in Iraq, and the Central American contingent is of a similar size. The Salvadorans are under Spanish command as part of an international brigade that includes troops from Central America.

Multiple train bombings in Madrid last month that killed 191 people have been blamed on al-Qaida-linked terrorists, who said they were punishing Spain for its alliance with the United States in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Spain's new government, elected just days after the March 11 train bombings, has promised to make good on its pre-election promise to withdraw all Spanish troops from Iraq unless command for peacekeeping is turned over to the United Nations.

In El Salvador, the defense minister said the attack will not alter his country's role in reconstruction efforts.

''It reinforces even more our decision to continue helping a country that is suffering,'' Juan Antonio Martinez said Sunday.




The protesters were upset over the detention of al-Yacoubi, a senior aide to the 30-year-old al-Sadr, who opposes the U.S.-led occupation of Iraq. Al-Sadr is at odds with most Shiites, who hope to gain substantial power in the new Iraqi government.

Shiites comprise about 60 percent of Iraq's 25 million people but were brutally repressed by the regime of Saddam Hussein, a Sunni Muslim.

At coalition headquarters in Baghdad, a senior official said on condition of anonymity that al-Yacoubi was detained Saturday on charges of murdering Abdel-Majid al-Khoei, a senior Shiite cleric who returned to Iraq after the U.S.-led invasion. A total of 25 arrest warrants were issued, and 13 suspects have been arrested, the official said.

Spanish-led forces said they did not participate in the arrest.

In central Baghdad's Firdaus Square, police fired warning shots during a protest by hundreds of al-Sadr supporters against al-Yacoubi's arrest. At least two protesters were injured, witnesses said.

In Kufa, near Najaf, al-Sadr supporters took over a police station and seized guns inside. No police were in sight.

In the southern city of Nasiriyah, Italian troops traded fire with militiamen demonstrating against al-Yacoubi's detention, said Lt. Col. Pierluigi Monteduro, chief of staff of Italian troops in the region. One Italian officer was wounded in the leg.

Also in the south, British troops clashed with protesters in Amarah, according to the Ministry of Defense in London. It was unclear whether there were casualties.

Al-Sadr's office in Baghdad issued a statement later Sunday calling off street protests and saying the cleric would stage a sit-in at a mosque in Kufa, where he has delivered fiery weekly sermons for months.

Al-Sadr supporters also were angered by the March 28 closure of his weekly newspaper by U.S. officials. The Americans alleged the newspaper was inciting violence against coalition troops.

The two U.S. Marines, both assigned to the 1st Marine Division, were killed by an ''enemy action'' in Anbar province Saturday, the military said. One died Saturday and the other Sunday, the statement said without providing details.

Anbar is an enormous stretch of land reaching to the Jordanian and Syrian borders west of Baghdad that includes Fallujah, a city where four American civilian contractors were slain Wednesday.

At a checkpoint in Samarra, about 60 miles north of Baghdad, that was manned by Iraqi Civil Defense personnel, a bomb killed three security officers and wounded another, workers at Samarra General Hospital said.

In Kirkuk, also in the north, a car bomb exploded, killing three civilians and wounding two others, police said.

Bremer on Sunday announced the appointments of Ali Allawi, the interim trade minister, as the new defense minister and Mohammed al-Shehwani, a former Iraqi air force officer who fled Iraq in 1990, as head of the Iraqi National Intelligence Service.

Late Sunday, U.N. envoy Lakhdar Brahimi and a team that will assist Iraqis in the political transition to an interim Iraqi government arrived in Baghdad, the United Nations said.


AP-NY-04-04-04 1807EDT




Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1399 times:

This thing is starting to spiral out of control. I think the June 30th date for power transfer has got to be in jeopardy now.

May our soldiers rest in peace, and may their families be blessed.


User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1392 times:

This is horrible, and it's getting ridiculous. While I understand that it's war, they're not fighting for really anything. When they die, Iraqis don't mourn, they laugh and throw rocks. Middle east = Center of the uncivilized world. WHY ARE WE THERE?


I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1387 times:

WHY ARE WE THERE?

At this point, the above question holds negligible [strategic] consequence...

...should we LEAVE there, would leave the situation exponentially worse [for us] than it was before.






[Edited 2004-04-05 01:54:14]

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1380 times:

They are getting ready for an allout civil war. As far as I understand they are all happy about the removal of Saddam Hussein, but now they want the coalition to leave the country so that they can fight it out whoever will take control of the place. No chance for democracy there! Whoever gets in power will make sure that every other contestant will be eliminated. It still is a clan / tribal society with clan chiefs ruling almost feudalistic.

Jan


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1366 times:

MD11Engineer, I'd love to see democracy take hold in that region,but it cannot be foisted upon a people, simply because we do not like who their leader was before. A people has to CHOOSE democratic rule, not have it thrusted in their faces.

I'm not ready for us to abandon all hope yet, as I still hope we can see it through so that some good comes out of a situation that never should have happened in the first place. But I admit, today, that hope is dim.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1346 times:

The basic ingredience for democracy is TOLERANCE and acceptance of majority decisions while at the same time protecting the rights of minorities. The attitude I see in Iraq is the winner takes it all and makes sure that once he is in a ruling position, nobody else will ever endanger his rule.

Jan


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1335 times:

What you described is the entire history of the Arab world, MD11Engineer. One year of American occupation cannot change that, try as we might.

User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1333 times:

Way to go dubbya......

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1330 times:

This is passing beyond just blaming the President, it's going to the very survival of a nation-Iraq. If this picks up steam, a Civil War is imminent, and, in my mind, the one's who will pick up the pieces of a shattered Iraq are Syria, Turkey and Iran.

This is a nightmare in the making, and we had better get a solution to it, and quickly.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1325 times:

The one thing El Qaeda will like: A lawless country ruled by warlords to recruit, train and prepare their attacks.

Jan


User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4780 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1313 times:

Agreed with CondordeBoy...if there is a pull-out now things will only disintegrate further and we could have another Bosnia on our hands (or worse). June 30th is not going to happen, I don't know why there are countries still supporting that date.

It doesn't matter if a country supported the war or not, right now we have to do the right thing instead of pontificate about how it was wrong to go in the first place. Its too late to debate that.


User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5643 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1291 times:

This is passing beyond just blaming the President, it's going to the very survival of a nation-Iraq. If this picks up steam, a Civil War is imminent, and, in my mind, the one's who will pick up the pieces of a shattered Iraq are Syria, Turkey and Iran.
This is a nightmare in the making, and we had better get a solution to it, and quickly.


It may be that a single nation-Iraq is not the best outcome at all. In other words, an Iraq partitioned into Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish sections may result in less violence and less radicalism. Partition would not be without its risks, of course; as you noted, Iran's influence would be an issue. All in all, however, it just may be that the three Iraqi factions are just too much at loggerheads to live together except in a totalitarian dictatorship.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

PROSA, an Iraq like that will end up in a constant state of fighting. It will be another Yugoslavia. Only, in that region, it could have catastrophic consequence far beyond the borders of Iraq-far beyond what Yugoslavia ever was.




User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5643 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1282 times:

PROSA, an Iraq like that will end up in a constant state of fighting. It will be another Yugoslavia. Only, in that region, it could have catastrophic consequence far beyond the borders of Iraq-far beyond what Yugoslavia ever was.

But consider that things are relatively peaceful today in what used to be Yugoslavia. Problems still linger, such as Kosovo, and the nation's partition was not a pleasant process, but just imagine what conditions would be like if the United States and/or other powers were still trying to hold together a single nation. It would be catastrophic.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1247 times:

I see the process of nation building is going smoothly?  Laugh out loud

This is the 5th strategic failure of Bush in Iraq.

1. Iraq had WMD: NO it didn't....

2. A few targeted airstrikes would eliminate the regime and thus avoid a full war: NO it didn't....

3. The removal of Saddam would make the people come to the streets in joy and make them start working together with the US to find the WMD and to build a free and democratic Iraq: NO it didn't....

4. The capture of Saddam would help calm down the explosive situation, it would demoralize the opponents of the coalition and would convince the scared Iraqi the old regime was gone; in short: things would be better once we get him: NO it didn't...

5. OK, maybe the WMD weren't there after all, but still once a date is set to transit power and a constitution is adopted, we will have build a better, free and democratic Iraq living in peace with its neighbours: Well, it certainly does NOT look like it now, does it?

If things go further down this road, the US will have managed to turn a stable oil producing country (undemocratic like many others), yet which was no threat to any of its neighbours (let alone to the US) spin out off control into a highly explosive place where a civil war is an ongoing story and where oil production is not guaranteed with catastrofic consequences for the world economy. Well done guys! What did he say: BRING THEM ON?  Laugh out loud What an idiot...


User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1220 times:

another chapter of failed u.s. foreign politics in the middle east is starting to unfold in exactly the way the "old europe" and its russian and chinese cohorts have predicted.

what could possibly resolve this FUBAR situation? i think the only way to more or less save the situation down there would need the following steps to be taken immediately:

- u.s./british control over iraq FULLY handed over to u.n., including putting u.s./u.k. troops under u.n. control and possible mandate
- u.n. schedule to enforced nationbuilding in iraq under u.n. and noone but u.n. supervision
- massive intervention of an international u.n. peacekeeping force in the range of 1-1.5million soldiers to occupy every pothole in iraq under martial law, withdrawal of u.s. and u.k. troops as quickly as possible to get rid of the "invasion" stain. maybe leave u.s. airforce in the country to provide its excellent services
- creation of a palestine state on the borders of the green line and acknowledgement of israel by arab nations in return for israel acceptance of palestine

i do think that would send a message to the middle east that the world is determined to solve the problems there in an open minded way and take alot of arguments away from the terrorist recruiters. a creation of a palestine state would send the right signal to the rebuilding of iraq: that determination is there to help the situation and not just wage war for nothing.



10=2
User currently offlineTWISTEDWHISPER From Sweden, joined Aug 2003, 711 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1209 times:

Yeah, well it's always easy to find someone to blame, but tell me, if you had a kid at home and he knocked over the glass of Coke, would you then spend 6 months blaming the kid for being stupid, or would you help him wipe it up?

So, my thoughts about how the agenda should look now:

1. Put more energy to dissolve the Israel-Palenstinian conflict.
2. Enforce democratic elections in Iraq
3. Focus more on building up the justice system, so that people can get
punished for crimes they commit
4. Cooperate with ALL the groups in this region, do not over look a group of
people because of what they have done in the past (i.e. suicide bombings)

Maybe it would be better if someone else beside the US handled the diplomacy parts of this conflict/issue/situation...What ever you wanna call it.. A lot of people in Iraq (and the rest of the middle east region) do not have a lot of confidence in the USA... Can you blame them?


If you had your entire family killed in a bombing, except for your sister, she was instead raped and killed by six members of the US lead coalition, then tell me that you could restrain your self from acting out your rage on a dismembered body of a US citizen...? I do not find it hard to understand at all... I know that many American citizens would show no mercy on OBL if he was found... I wouldn't...

It's funny though how 10 dead soldiers can cause so much upset, while 90 dead civilians cause nothing... Yeah that's right, in the riots in Sadr-City 90 civilians was killed...

I really wish it was as simple as saying: Well, the US made a choice to invade without UN mandate, and without the consent of the world community, so it's their headache...

War turns people into animals...



Read between the lines.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1201 times:

2. Enforce democratic elections in Iraq

No disrespect intended, but do you know how hypocritical that sounds? We're going to "force" these people to have deomcratic elections. That's NOT what democracy should be about! We CAN'T shove our system down their throats. As I said before, they either want such a system, or they don't, and for us to force them to have elections, is the height of arrogance.


User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1193 times:

"We're going to "force" these people to have deomcratic elections. That's NOT what democracy should be about! "

i couldnt agree more.



10=2
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1189 times:

1. Put more energy to dissolve the Israel-Palenstinian conflict.

Doesn't really have that much to do with Iraq, does it. Probably negligable impact.

2. Enforce democratic elections in Iraq

Enforce, bad phrasing. But the current coalition mission there is to support Iraq's transformation to a functioning democracy. That is what those troops are doing there now.

3. Focus more on building up the justice system, so that people can get
punished for crimes they commit


Yes, but keep in mind that you are starting from scratch, in a country that hasn't had a truely functioning justice system in 30 years. Again this is also part of the current coalition mission.

4. Cooperate with ALL the groups in this region, do not over look a group of
people because of what they have done in the past (i.e. suicide bombings)


The problem is that the definition of cooperation you and the coalition are using is not exactly the defition some of the other groups are using. Namely the "my way or Hi-way" one.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineTWISTEDWHISPER From Sweden, joined Aug 2003, 711 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1176 times:

When I say enforce, I mean "Make it possible for Iraqi people to vote without risking their life to some maniac suicide bomber"
Sorry for the bad phrasing, I'll put it on the account of me being multilingual...
Although I know that the military personnel is not in Iraq to play cricket, it seems to me that we have a status quo situation down there?

I agree, you cannot force a government type to a people if they don't want it... But I think everybody (except the fundamentalists) do want to live in a democracy, where they actually have a feeling of influence... What happens if they don't? Then what are you going to do? Reinstate Saddam Hussein?


1. Put more energy to dissolve the Israel-Palenstinian conflict.

Doesn't really have that much to do with Iraq, does it. Probably negligable impact.


I disagree... The reason why your guys are having so much problems down there is because the Iraqi people don't trust your country, your president and therefore they do not trust Americans... The lack of trust has a direct correlation with the way your country has dealt with the above mentioned conflict... So, it needs to be dealt with now, in a professional and mature manner, stop supporting the Israeli occupation... Which is just another reason why this should have been handled by the UN and /or the world community...


keep in mind that you are starting from scratch, in a country that hasn't had a truly functioning justice system in 30 years. Again this is also part of the current coalition mission.

True, but I fail to realize how the military, that is responsible for killing a couple of thousand innocent people, are going to keep law and order and win the trust of the citizens that a police force need to be effective... One a person see a soldier they do not consider him an officer of the law, they consider him a soldier, and soldiers fight wars... Look at the Rodney King situation, that is what happens when the police does not have the trust and confidence of the people...



Read between the lines.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1164 times:

This country has never been a democracy.In recent times it has been a colony, an absolute monarchy and a dictatorship. Additionaly it is basically a tribal society, with the people in the end voting for whoever the clan chief tells them to vote for. They are looking for a "strong man" to tell them what to do. And about creating 3 different countries out of Iraq, forget about it!
There are no clean borders between the different groups of population. If you would create a seperate state for the Sunnis, the Shi´a and the Kurds there´ll be "ethnic cleansing" going on.
Also AFAIK, the oil fields are both in the Shi´a areas in the south and in the Kurdish areas in the north. The Sunnis would never gagree to be left with a no-income part of the country.

Jan


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1160 times:

It is terrible news for US soldier was killed today and it should need to make protect with the bullproof vest. It not want any happening again into the future and try to make rest with the peace. It will never happening again into the past and try to make stop with the war at Iraq. Is that already captured with Saddam?

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