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A World Without Religion...  
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1637 times:

I was daydreaming the other day and was thinking, what if the world had no religions, wouldnt it be such a better place?
I am not religous at all but wouldnt it be great if there was no religions so no Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Budhism etc. Just think of the lack of wars, bombings, no fighting over land, everybody could at least live in a more peaceful, if not completly peaceful world.
What do you think? Would the world be better without religion?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
92 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1630 times:

People would find other things to fight about.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineAIR757200 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1627 times:


I think about the same thing too, I'm not religious myself: then again PROSA is right - people would find other things to fight about.


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1623 times:

Yeah, probably, like things such as Why Rochester was built etc  Big grin


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineMYT332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1623 times:

But religion is a big player in peoples lives so the world would be totally different and not how we know it.

Even if there was no religion someone would probably create one or something like one, i guess people like to think there's someone out there covering your back and that's there's somewhere we go when we kick it.

Ahh i dunno,

-

Alex


*Edit: Need typing lessons! lol*


[Edited 2004-04-16 16:05:55]


One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineScotty From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 1999, 1875 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1617 times:

Yes.

Rangers fans shaking hands with Celtic fans at the end of another severe 4-0 thumping and saying what a jolly good side the Celts are. Huns buying green clad supporters celebratory drinks to toast another successful League championship. Celtic fans praising Rangers fans for their sportsmanship and graciousness in defeat, whilst saying that they hope Rangers do it next year so that everyone can get a fair crack at winning the league.

Ian Paisley and the Pope boogying on down at the local Orange Lodge Fundraising Bash for St. Vincent de Paul and the Sisters of Mercy. Gerry Adams and Mad Dog Johnny Adair going off on holiday together to Lourdes or spending a weekend picnicking by the River Boyne.

Dream on Kirkie  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineYul2010 From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 320 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1609 times:

I agree with MYT332.
People will start believing in a superpower of some sort. Others will believe in another power. And there you have it. I mean, conflict is unavoidable in all fields.

YUL2010



"Hotel November Oscar clear to land runway 24L"
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1603 times:

Yeah, as long as individual nationalities remained, I just couldnt imagine congratulating England at anything.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1603 times:

"Topic: A World Without Religion..."

what a dream  Smile

i think that "religion" can be overcome with education. most people believe in that stuff because they were raised to believe certain things. i do have a positive estimate that religion will be a rare thing in 100 years or so. time works against their fairy tale constructs and education spreading does its job.



10=2
User currently offlineScotty From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 1999, 1875 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1594 times:

Zak!!

Congrats. Your next post is your 1000th!!!

 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6593 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1587 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

"You may say im a dreamer, but i am not the only one"


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1585 times:

oh heh didnt even notice that, must be the poem thread one  Smile
thanks for pointing it out scotty!



10=2
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1571 times:

Exactly GKirk. Rochester Minnesota is such a hole its not even funny. Why they even built it to begin with is beyond me.

User currently offlineSSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1558 times:

We could start an East vs. West civil war over who should be NBA's rookie of the year, 'Melo or 'Bron  Big grin.

User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1540 times:

Was Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot religious?

Going by your logic, wouldn't the world be a better place without atheism.

Actually your logic is, wouldn't the world be a better place if no one disagreed with me.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

Going by your logic, wouldn't the world be a better place without atheism.

Actually your logic is, wouldn't the world be a better place if no one disagreed with me.


Atheism isn't a religion, nor is it an "anti-religion" religion, nor is it even anti-religion.

It's merely the use of evidence to obtain theories about the universe.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

Religion basically just gives a lot a people something to do...mainly the poor. They are biggest demographic of believers on a global scale. They're constantly craving something better than their current existence. With all religions offering something better afterwards...it's the easiest thing to latch onto..and it's free. It also gives power to centralized authority, basically keeping the people in line.

But being the animals we are..we certainly would find something to fight over. Without a central theme of control, law and order, we'd go berserk...the only exception..would be what Zak pointed out earlier. Education. It is the only thing that brings light into dark realm of ignorance. In the most edified circles, disagreements exist..but rarely does it sink to street level violence. With exception of wars of course, this is how the educated fight, they get someone to do it for them. Bring back the duels...if Bush and Saddam had a duel....thousands would be alive to day!

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

It's the unlearned lesson of 9/11: religions are bad. In my views, any kind of extreme adherence to any kind of utopic ideology is a religious process. Thus, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot were religious, in their own way.

Non-religious people always live in doubt; they don't believe in any absolute "truth"; they question all evidences. Learning to live in doubt is not easy to everyone, but I believe it's the way to go.

My only certainty: there are no certainties.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineRev3oh2 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 141 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1508 times:
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Are you certain of that?


...let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1493 times:

Thus, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot were religious, in their own way.

No they weren't. They were idealogues.

Non-religious people always live in doubt; they don't believe in any absolute "truth"; they question all evidences. Learning to live in doubt is not easy to everyone, but I believe it's the way to go.

Also known as moral relativism.


User currently offlineDan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1482 times:

Well, if there were no religion, people would start worshipping inanimate objects, aka Planet Of The Apes style.



-Dan



A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1473 times:

Thus, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot were religious, in their own way.

No they weren't. They were idealogues.


And the difference is...



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineSSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1470 times:

Also known as moral relativism.


Moral relativism these days is a popular stance, and courtesy of Ethics 101 in college I can explain why it is inherently flawed:


1) Incoherency: Relativism states that cultures and religions are each morally right in their own traditions. It also states therefore that everyone must be tolerant, thereby everyone ought to be a relativist. Therefore, if a religion or culture doesn't practice tolerance, how can it be right in their own respect yet wrong at the same time? Simple, by logical reasoning you can't.

2) Decomposition: Relativism often decomposes into some other objective moral stance. For instance, a common stance in relativism is that there isn't any right or wrong. To hold right and wrong to their definitions, that means no universal right or wrong, which becomes moral nihilism. Another one is the one stated above:

Non-religious people always live in doubt; they don't believe in any absolute "truth"; they question all evidences. Learning to live in doubt is not easy to everyone, but I believe it's the way to go.

This could easily be called moral relativism, but in reality it is moral skepticism. Which one Qb001 is, I'd have to ask.

3) Already stated in number two, but for relativists who believe in right and wrong, who therefore aren't nihilists, hold those terms "right" and "wrong" against their own definitions. The definitions of right and wrong both state universiality as qualities to them. Therefore, if one thinks a society is right in practicing abortion because it is in their beliefs, but yet another society is right in denying women the right to abortion because it's in their beliefs, they are stating two contradictory traditions are right, which holds right against its definition. Likewise, anyone who says something is right in its own respect is likely holding "right" against its definion. If someone is to argue against this, I'll likely refer them back to item #1.


Anyways, this is coming straight out of Ethics notes and text.


User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1434 times:

>>>Atheism isn't a religion, nor is it an "anti-religion" religion, nor is it even anti-religion.

It's merely the use of evidence to obtain theories about the universe.
<<<

OK, I'll accept that.

But when people espouse their agnostic or religous belief or anything in between as exclusively correct we've got intolerance and an excuse to hate and eventually persecute.

You want a world without religion, fine, don't go to a house of worship.

You want to be religious, fine, go to your house of worship.

Either way, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

I'm not a regular churchgoer, yet I get the impression anti-religion is becoming a politically correct prejudice. And though this might be okay by some, the worm could turn against, you.

Perhaps it's better to be tolerant, respectful and live and let live.






You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21470 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

As I see it, humans have a spiritual capacity and interest.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for the hate- and violence-ridden perversions that have been created out of this capacity; But I think it´s still one of the more significant parts of what makes us human.

As for a specific incarnation of spiritual inspiration: Ever seen a buddhist trying to ram his faith down other people´s throats? Maybe there´s a way to go...  Big thumbs up


25 MITaero : >i think that "religion" can be overcome with education. most people believe in that stuff because they were raised to believe certain things. Then wh
26 Alpha 1 : , what if the world had no religions, wouldnt it be such a better place? Actually, it wouldn't be. Religion-the thing which people put the tangible as
27 Qb001 : This could easily be called moral relativism, but in reality it is moral skepticism. Which one Qb001 is, I'd have to ask. I don't advocate moral relat
28 Alpha 1 : Morality is not cast in stone, it evolves To me, that's just a crutch to make what is seen as abhorrent behavior acceptable. Morality does NOT evolve.
29 Qb001 : Morality does NOT evolve. What is wrong, is wrong. Case closed. Get serious here. I mean think about it, how many behaviors that were considered "mora
30 MD-90 : Let's see. Homosexuality Sex before marriage Greed running rampant among business leaders Foul language has increased in acceptability The moral rot o
31 Rev3oh2 : Acknowledging at the outset here that societies heavily influenced by religion will always have flaws, because humans will never be perfect, I think t
32 FSPilot747 : A world without religion and multiple races would be a peaceful world...that's for sure. We'll never figure out god's motive. FSP
33 Ctbarnes : Morality does NOT evolve. What is wrong, is wrong. Case closed. To use that kind of logic we would still be practicing slavery. Paul's admonition for
34 FDXmech : Very nice post, Charles.
35 MD-90 : Modern slavery has always been wrong. Paul knew that what he wrote could not change the Roman system of slavery. It was entrenched. To actually be a c
36 Gc : The truth is we're wired to worship, can't help it (even athiests). It's just a case of what you end up worshipping. Can anyone prove to me that human
37 Alpha 1 : Acknowledging at the outset here that societies heavily influenced by religion will always have flaws, And societies that don't, don't have those flaw
38 MD-90 : The Jewish concept of slavery was not the same as modern slavery. Every seven years, all slaves were freed. If you were enslaved because you couldn't
39 Ctbarnes : Wrong. Becuase most of those who practiced slavery knew it was wrong, but did it anyway. They were in violation of morality, but they did it anyway. H
40 BN747 : Wrong. Becuase most of those who practiced slavery knew it was wrong, but did it anyway. They were in violation of morality, but they did it anyway. H
41 Qb001 : Let's see. Homosexuality Sex before marriage Greed running rampant among business leaders Foul language has increased in acceptability The moral rot o
42 BN747 : I just read a story in the LA Times where a beautiful young woman participating in a clinical trial clinic 'noted in her diary a note to god reading '
43 Boeing nut : I personally think one of the greatest contradictions of human history is fighting over religion. I just don't understand it.
44 MD-90 : they often time condemn people on the basis of what they are, and not on what they do. By homosexuality, I mean the practice of it, not being gay. Be
45 L-188 : I believe the soviets tried to set up a pure secular system. It didn't work out too well.
46 Klaus : MD-90: By homosexuality, I mean the practice of it, not being gay. Being gay in and of itself isn't a sin. That´s a cheap cop-out, and you know it. I
47 Sleekjet : It is the Judeo-Christian value system that is holding the world together at the moment. Think about this: think of the people you know who have the e
48 Zak : "It is the Judeo-Christian value system that is holding the world together at the moment." you win the prize for most retarded statement ever on this
49 Sleekjet : Zak: I take it you dispute my argument. Can you really deny the rest of my argument? BTW, have a nice day.
50 Zak : " think of the people you know who have the elusive quality of "integrity". Think of the values that person possesses. Probably honesty, patience, tru
51 Qb001 : Probably honesty, patience, trustworthiness, fidelity, honor, hospitality and the like. Well those are all qualities espoused by Jews and Christians -
52 Marco : Enron guys were all good Christians! What's your point? Whoever said they represented the religion? Using your logic all Muslims are responsible for 9
53 Post contains images BN747 : He meant to say that...'getting your ass carted of to jail is what keeps most people in line!' AMAZING isn't it? It works in Japan, the Congo,India, c
54 Sleekjet : Zak: The story of Christ is a Middle-Eastern fairy tale?
55 Lehpron : "I was daydreaming the other day and was thinking, what if the world had no religions, wouldn't it be such a better place?" Better? LOL, are you kiddi
56 Sleekjet : Lehpron: Some would say that indeed religion has been the GREATEST influence in history to this point. I would almost agree.
57 Lehpron : Indeed, I agree. However, people should be held accountable for their actions, how one thinks will greatly affect how they act, if they act at all. It
58 Zak : "Zak: The story of Christ is a Middle-Eastern fairy tale?" of course. it is as much a legend and fairy tale as every story and legend of other religio
59 Sleekjet : Zak: What if I gave you several examples of Biblical prophecy being fulfilled. Would you be open-minded enough to examine them? Because if I can convi
60 Zak : " What if I gave you several examples of Biblical prophecy being fulfilled. Would you be open-minded enough to examine them? Because if I can convince
61 Rev3oh2 : Acknowledging at the outset here that societies heavily influenced by religion will always have flaws, And societies that don't, don't have those flaw
62 Sleekjet : Zak: Here are but a few prophecies that were fulfilled. I deliberately picked the book of Psalms, since it is well-known to have been compiled around
63 AC320 : of course most readings from biblical sources are in translation, what you're reading depends on who did the translation. for example from my Hebrew t
64 Zak : "Zak: Here are but a few prophecies that were fulfilled. I deliberately picked the book of Psalms, since it is well-known to have been compiled around
65 Rev3oh2 : AC320 - a tip for making comparisons from Psalms using Hebrew Tanakh and other versions: The Tanakh does not include the first line of a Psalm as a ve
66 Zak : "As for demanding proof of the existence of Jesus, do you demand the same for other ancient historical figures?" of course. now lets compare jesus wit
67 Rev3oh2 : Okay, just to re-orient you historically, Jesus and his contemporaries were not from the medieval period. However, if you are willing to impugn the lo
68 Zak : good job at adressing about none of my points. now let me adress the point you made, its simple math: " but you'd have to concoct quite a fairy tale t
69 AC320 : Rev3oh2 Thanks, interesting difference there I'll do a bit of reading and see if I can come up with why we have that. Of course the Psalms when taken
70 Rev3oh2 : That's fine ZAK, if you want to chalk it all up to chance, go for it. Here's one for you though: If we have our super-tracking devices aimed at the he
71 Rev3oh2 : P.S. Regarding all of your numbers, above, ZAK. You make a mighty assumption that based on the number of stars, galaxies, etc., that life would simply
72 Scotty : WOW ZAK - thats pretty close to the Drake Equation. Well done. I am impressed.
73 MD-90 : That IS basically the Drake Equation. Where do you think he go the idea?
74 Zak : "That IS basically the Drake Equation. Where do you think he go the idea?" sorry to burst your bubble, but i have not heard about it until scotty ment
75 Rev3oh2 : No doubt it's hospitable....for we see it occurring. I'm just saying, where's the science that produces living matter from dead matter? Bacteria, to u
76 Post contains images Klaus : Rev3oh2: Bacteria, to use your example, are extremely complex. Don't forget, chemical processes that might allow for linkage of molecules are reversab
77 Rev3oh2 : Thank you, Klaus, for a thoughtful piece. I think what causes people like me to ask the questions I have is when I read statements like some you've wr
78 Zak : " If you really believed that, I'd wager you'd never open another tin of food in your life for fear of what might emerge from within. " your statement
79 Sleekjet : You guys are way over my head. All I know is, when one considers the complexity of even the simplest insect or leaf, or ponders the stars, or witnesse
80 AC320 : All I know is, it's called "faith" and you either have it or you don't and no man is greater than the other because he has a different perspective on
81 BN747 : "You guys are way over my head. All I know is, when one considers the complexity of even the simplest insect or leaf, or ponders the stars, or witness
82 Rev3oh2 : Those asserting above (Zak, BN747) that fear is the motivating factor in faith must be omniscient, thereby demonstrating the existence of deities, nam
83 Post contains images Klaus : Rev3oh2: I know your use of fire is just an example, but it's a destructive process requires nothing particularly complex. It´s the most simple and e
84 Post contains images Lehpron : "Zak: What if I gave you several examples of Biblical prophecy being fulfilled. " Oh cripple me Charlie! Does the word COINCEDENCE get you people thin
85 Rev3oh2 : Klaus, once again, thanks for a very thoughtful post. The topic is a many-faceted one, and you bring up certain things that could open up separate thr
86 Post contains images Ctbarnes : Oh cripple me Charlie! You called? Charles, SJ
87 BN747 : And why the bravado demonstrated by those without any faith? You infer that you would never, ever believe in such 'fairy tales,' living in 'fear' of s
88 QIguy24 : ...... Would In my opinion be a very very booring world.
89 Ussherd : And why the bravado demonstrated by those without any faith? You infer that you would never, ever believe in such 'fairy tales,' living in 'fear' of s
90 BN747 : You can't use the scientific method to prove or disprove the existence of God. God is, by definition, supernatural, and science does not deal with the
91 Ussherd : Speak for your self...many us beleive in ourselves for the short time we are here! I didn’t exclusively mean belief in the supernatural. I was a
92 Post contains images Eham : http://www.xrds.nl
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