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Spanish Troops To Leave Iraq  
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8416 posts, RR: 11
Posted (10 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2189 times:
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Just saw on Sky News that Spain will pull its troops out of Iraq "as soon as possible". This was a prominent election issue for the new Premier.


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVCE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2159 times:

This would be the biggest mistake Spain could do.

User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2157 times:

Pulling troops out is exactly what bin laden and others want. Spain was involved in the war it should have the deceny to stay and rebuild the country.


It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3381 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2155 times:

After this terrorist victory, I think its likey that non-US forces will continue to be targeted.


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineVCE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2152 times:

I totally agree with you Go Canada, this is was Bin Laden expects, to break the Western Alliance.

User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2144 times:

what great news inded!

the most disturbing part however is that the bush apologists think that doing what the spanish people want is a mistake.
i think that says all about the attitude towards democracy some people here have.



10=2
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2136 times:

This would be the biggest mistake Spain could do.

Isn't a member of "The coalition of the willing", allowed to willingly pull their troops out if they feel it is right for them? Sounds like to me the keeping of a campaign pledge, a rarity in a politician of any stripe.

If this what the Spanish PEOPLE want, who the hell are you guys to critisize them?



User currently offlineSolarix From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 days ago) and read 2119 times:

Al-Qaeda will market this the same way they use Somalia. Just watch.

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 days ago) and read 2115 times:

Oh yadda yadda yadda...

What was the percentage of the Spanish people that opposed going to Iraq? Some 90%. And yet there are people jumping on the "bin Laden wins, Zapatero is a traitor" badwagon.  Insane

Guess it sucks to be a Bush arse-kisser when things don't go the way the mighty Texan expects them to go.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 days ago) and read 2102 times:

Aloges, my point is this, Spain as a nation supported the war and is partly responsible for invading iraq and for the problems going on there, to withdraw half way through is hypocritical. Many anti war people in the UK accept the arguement that since we bombed iraq we should help clear up the mess we started. Spain and every nation who supported this military adventure should have the deceny to help the iraqi people.


It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 days ago) and read 2085 times:

Spain as a nation supported the war and is partly responsible for invading iraq and for the problems going on there

Spain isn't responsible. The United States and Great Britian are responsible. Spain decided to go along, for reasons their ex-PM can only tell us. But it's obvious that Spain's people NEVER wanted to be a part of this war, so what's your problem, Go Canada, with them pulling their troops out, and doing what the people of Spain wanted all along?


User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 days ago) and read 2078 times:

VCE wrote:

"I totally agree with you Go Canada, this is was Bin Laden expects, to break the Western Alliance."

I would argue that it was Bush and his allies who have done much to break the Western alliance, and thus done exactly what Al Qaeda wanted them to do. The world overwhelmingly supported the War Against Terror, but Bush chose to alienate so many countries by pursuing a misguided war in Iraq. When Bush's "allies" lose at the ballot box, many of these divisions within the international community will disappear, and that can't possibly be good news for Al Qaeda. Furthermore, when Kerry wins in November, much of the anti-US-leadership sentiment around the world will vanish, healing a troubling international divide that Bush has created and Al Qaeda has exploited.


User currently offlineMrwayne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 days ago) and read 2075 times:

I thought that the Italians only made cars with 1 forward gear and 5 reverse.
The coalition forces should stick together over this.
Bin linner (laden) will be just laughing at the west again.


User currently offlineVCE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 days ago) and read 2063 times:

Mrwayne, i think that the Italians have payed a lot in Iraq, and i'm sure our loyalty with our Allies was the right decision to take. So, i don't understand yr humor.

User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12037 posts, RR: 47
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 days ago) and read 2060 times:
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Spain as a nation supported the war

Which part of "90% of the population were opposed to the war" was unclear? The Nation of Spain clearly didn't want this war. It's democratically elected government chose to ignore the vox pop, and paid the price at the recent election.



Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7929 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2054 times:

Appeasement my ass. The old Spanish gov't were the appeasers, now finally the Spanish people have a gov't that represents their wishes and will stand up to the aggressor.

Mrwayne, your remark about Italy was childish and uncalled for. The Italians are as deep into this war as Britain and show no sign of straying. I share VCE's confusion, but I'm also offended. Get it together - and apologise.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2044 times:

Jeez, many people forget so quickly that OBL is a much bigger enemy/issue than Iraq. The main arguments over Iraq are long over. The recent bombings in Spain, and attempted bombings in England and France should reunite the Western World against what is a far more dangerous situation. France was the country most against the war in Iraq and that didn't stop terrorists from trying to strike there. The Western World is united in a fight against Muslim fundamentalism that is bound to last a while....The leaders should wake up, realize this, and use this war against terrorism as a platform for bringing the Western World closer together again.

User currently offlineMrwayne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2036 times:

VCE; Sorry if I offended you it was only a joke Italy has been a good ally in the Iraq conflict.


User currently offlineVCE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2027 times:

Mrwayne, no problem Smile

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2025 times:

I agree 100% with what Rjpieces said in respect to the "War against Terror".

The trouble in "the Western World" only started when the Bush admin went ahead with that "You're either with us or against us!" hogwash; remember the support the US was and is given against terrorists such as "Muslim" fundamentalists?

In addition to that, US forces have been relieved by "coward nations" such as Germany when they themselves were deployed to Iraq. For example, US barracks in Germany are guarded by German forces (mostly conscripts like friends of mine) instead of American forces.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7929 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2022 times:

RJpieces: "Jeez, many people forget so quickly that OBL is a much bigger enemy/issue than Iraq. The main arguments over Iraq are long over." So what you're saying is the same as when Bush stole the election: get over it. Sorry, I need more than that.

"The recent bombings in Spain, and attempted bombings in England and France should reunite the Western World against what is a far more dangerous situation." Entirely possible, but there are people who can't read or write living in mud huts in Bhutan who know that George W Bush (or George W Bullshit as he was referred to the other day) can't walk and chew gum. Since he's the self-appointed guy who's gonna lead this so called war on so called terrorism, you can see why some of us aren't that crazy about going along with him, we saw quite plainly how much he lied about Iraq and what a bloody awful mess that's turning into (and what a recruiting ground for anti-western sentiment!). Let's roll? Errr, you roll without me. I rolled mine already.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

This is nonsense - it will be viewed as a victory in the eyes of the terrorists and will only spur them on. I'll take a hundred dollar bet with anybody now that this will reinforce Al Qaeda's desire to cause atrocities at the forthcoming UK and US elections. In either case, we won't go down the same route as Spain - once you start a job you stay there to see it through.


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineVCE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2012 times:

I belive that against terror all the Western Democracies must be united. Terrorism is threat for all of us, but honestly speaking i see in Europe only the UK and my country Italy in the first line to fight against the terrorism in a concrete way. This is a mistake.

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7929 posts, RR: 54
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Actually RJpieces, I'll go you one more. Once again: "Jeez, many people forget so quickly that OBL is a much bigger enemy/issue than Iraq." To be honest matey, we were all still reeling with shock and horror at what happened to our cousins in New York when George W Bullshit himself forgot that OBL is a much bigger enemy than etc etc., and started banging the drum for war in Iraq, with all the lies about a mushroom cloud over an American city. Everyone knew there were no weapons in Iraq, but it was Bush's stated policy to take our eye off the ball re al Qaeda and start going after a toothless dictator with no connection to Islam. We all wanted to find OBL, now we don't trust anything that comes out of Washington. And somehow that's Spain's fault?

Mr Wayne, nice work.

[Edited 2004-04-18 21:08:38]


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineVCE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Thanks Cedarjet Smile I respect the opinions of everybody, but sometime.. you know.. Big grin

25 Post contains images Rjpieces : "To be honest matey, we were all still reeling with shock and horror at what happened to our cousins in New York" I'm with you Cedarjet!
26 Donder10 : this what the Spanish PEOPLE want, who the hell are you guys to critisize them? If the majority of the US public in a few months wants to bring home U
27 Aloges : "If the majority of the US public in a few months wants to bring home US troops then I guess it should as well?" Basically, yes. But given that loads
28 Arsenal@LHR : Spanish forces shouldn't be in Iraq anyway, it's about time. Aznar went against the wishes of his people and in the end got what he deserved. The war
29 JoseMEX : >this what the Spanish PEOPLE want, who the hell are you guys to critisize them?The Spanish never wanted the war, the Americans didIt's called democr
30 Aloges : "This what the Spanish PEOPLE want, who the hell are you guys to critisize them?" Whoever said that in the first place: We can criticise anything we w
31 Post contains images Klaus : Just watched Spiegel TV a short while ago... They accompanied a group of american soldiers during several raids and interviewed several of them. The t
32 Zak : i have seen it aswell klaus, they did really good documentaries there.
33 QANTASFOREVER : It will be interesting to see how soon Spain falls out of favour with the United States. Methinks they are on the same list as New Zealand now. Now, I
34 Delta-flyer : I find it very ironic that days after Spain announced it will withdraw troops from Iraq, another bomb was planted on the railroad, presumably by the s
35 Startvalve : Nothing like encouraging Al Queada to bomb more innocent people to get the outcome they want to an election. I think it is pretty clear to the thinkin
36 Dc10guy : I'm glad to see at least one country has the balls to admit they where wrong and go home. Terrorism has nothing to do with George Bush's oil war in Ir
37 Alpha 1 : Yes Startvalve, the will of the people is a terrible thing to listen to, isn't it? Give me a freaking break.
38 PHX-LJU : Startvalve wrote: "Look for Pro-Kerry/Nader bombings in the US around November," As I've argued above, it is in Al Qaeda's interest to see Bush re-ele
39 Rev3oh2 : In reference to several who have said so, I don't think Bush "fooled" anyone with his reasons for going to war with Iraq. The way it's now presented t
40 Dc10guy : Rev3oh2, I disagree. I see Spain realizing their error of siding with a lying American president that mislead them and most of the world. I believe th
41 Alpha 1 : Rev3oh2, I disagree. I see Spain realizing their error of siding with a lying American president that mislead them and most of the world. 1. There's n
42 L-188 : Oh I don't doubt that the Spanish people voted with their hearts and emotions. But I don't doubt either that this is a lesson to certian groups that a
43 Rev3oh2 : Disagreement noted. So then, you think the deaths of nearly 200 people on the Madrid railways had nothing to do with Spain's decision? And by the way,
44 Alpha 1 : So then, you think the deaths of nearly 200 people on the Madrid railways had nothing to do with Spain's decision? It had a direct correlation, but I
45 L-188 : "Damn it, we made it clear we didn't want to be in this war, but our leaders took us there anyway, and because we did, those 200 people died." I don'
46 N79969 : Big, big mistake Spain. The Spanish people can opine all they want about the "peoples' will", "democracy", and "Bush misled us" but the bottom line is
47 Rev3oh2 : You, on the other hand, see it is caving in. No, I really don't see it as caving in, nor did I say that. I agree with you that many didn't want their
48 Post contains images Klaus : It appears many have already forgotten what the real reasons for the angry protests and ultimately for the demise of the Aznar administration was: The
49 Donder10 : Sure, it´s not as simple as "Spain caving in to the terrorists", but I think it´s important to remember the actual facts, even if they should not ma
50 Post contains images Schoenorama : Go Canada!: "Spain and every nation who supported this military adventure should have the deceny to help the iraqi people." If you believe Spain hasn'
51 Sabenapilot : I think Bush has finally understood he'd be much better off with a real and broad international coalition operating under a clear UN mandate than he i
52 Horus : I heard they will be leaving within the next two weeks! That's pretty quick Anyway I think its good news: The Iraqi people want it and the Spanish peo
53 Zak : "With the US presidential elections less then half a year away, there is no way the current US administration is even considering to go 'pants down',
54 N79969 : Schoenorama: "Arguing that Spain's departure is based solely on the terrorist-attack in Madrid is complete b0ll0cks! Spain has repeated over and over
55 Post contains images Keesje : Please read carefully : *** The new Spanish PM made clear the Spanish troops would stay in Iraq if there was a sign power would be transferred to the
56 Sabenapilot : N79969, 'Actually Zaptero does not seem to be waiting around for the UN to act and is moving out ahead of June 30 handover deadline.' PM Zapatero know
57 N79969 : Sabenapilot, You are missing the point I am making. I have no doubt that Zapatero, in his mind, is simply carrying through with his electoral promise.
58 N754pr : It was the USA that started this whole mess so let them stay there, all other troops should go home. How many more US soldiers will bush kill??
59 Post contains images Superfly : Uh-Oh, I guess Bush is going to bomb Spain next huh? Will there be a wave of anti-Spain propaganda like we've seen against France? Is Spain on the lis
60 Indianguy : The spanish PEOPLE want their troops back home, and the Iraqi people want their freedom. The decision to withdraw was taken by a govt that was democr
61 Alpha 1 : Roy, except for your name-calling of President Bush, and the stupid remark about the coffins, I'm forced to generally agree with you. You don't know h
62 N79969 : "You don't know how much that bothers me. " And it should seriously bother you. To pretend that this withdrawal by Spain at this time, under these cir
63 Alpha 1 : And it should seriously bother you. It doesn't bother me in the way you're thinking, my friend. It bothers me becuase I can't stand what Roy stands fo
64 Sabenapilot : Just heard that Honduras too has officially decided to pull back its 370 or so soldiers which are based in Nadjaf, Iraq and operate under Spanish comm
65 Leskova : The saddest thing about the whole situation in Iraq is not the fact that Spain and Honduras have decided to withdraw, but it's really the fact that, h
66 Sebolino : I belive that against terror all the Western Democracies must be united. Terrorism is threat for all of us, but honestly speaking i see in Europe onl
67 Indianguy : To conclude that al-Sadr's men are freedom fighters is also delusional. They want a theocratic dictatorship and the US is only thing standing in thei
68 Sabenapilot : Some news just in... Secretary of Defense Soto Jimenez of the Dominican Republic has just announced his country too will pull back from Iraq early nex
69 Zak : "The Dominican Republic is the 3rd country in only a week's time to announce it is stepping out of the 'coalition of the willing', following the path
70 TBCITDG : The great thing about a Democracy is that the people have the ability to change it's elected leaders. If the majority of the country as a whole do not
71 N79969 : "A Freedom struggle is a struggle aimed at restoring the right to rule to the native population. Al-Sadr's fight is aimed in that direction, and ensur
72 Alpha 1 : A Freedom struggle is a struggle aimed at restoring the right to rule to the native population. Al-Sadr's fight is aimed in that direction, and ensuri
73 Schoenorama : N79969: "But al-Qaeda will see vindication in its methods by Spain's withdrawal..." And since when do you give any credibility to al-Qaeda's vindicati
74 Leskova : Alpha 1, to a wide extent I'll agree with you, but this is one of those "where do we draw the line" questions: what if, and I'm not saying that this i
75 N79969 : Schoenorama, "Al-Qaeda may think and vindicate all they like, 90% of the Spanish population already believed before the Madrid attacks and continue to
76 QIguy24 : I just read that Poland also wishes to withdraw their soldiers from Iraq now. Lezek Miller want's them withdrawn, but he will do it after he has made
77 Sabenapilot : Yep, I have also just heard that.... This must be a shock to Washington, since Poland was a very important nation... Remember Rummie referring to it a
78 Sabenapilot : Poland currently has 3500 soldiers in Iraq. IN just over a week, at least 4 countries have voiced their intention to pull out of Iraq, which is causin
79 Post contains links Schoenorama : N79969: "Are you actually naive to believe your own words? You pretend as if al-Qaeda and Spain exist in different worlds." It sure is one single worl
80 N79969 : Schoenorama, I do not doubt that most of Zapatero's motivation is honest however, the scent of appeasement is clearly in the air. Make no mistake abou
81 Indianguy : Iraq will be ruled by Iraqis. Period. That is freedom. What GWB is trying to do is to turn the clock back on an era where some countries thought they
82 L-188 : What GWB is trying to do is to turn the clock back on an era where some countries thought they had the right to rule over other people for their own g
83 Ushermittwoch : L-188, I know that you are a good conservative American, but the problem is that YOU and I know that GWB is in there for the oil. The only government
84 Schoenorama : N79969: "The timing and manner of Spain's withdrawal shows, real or not, a sign of weakness." If only Aznar would have acted as a trully democratic el
85 QIguy24 : One thing wonders me a little bit. I don't want to start an argue here. But if the spanish people didn't want their soldiers in Iraq, why was Aznar le
86 Indianguy : And then go ahead and explain why they have been pushing that return of sovereignty for June and swearing they will keep that schedule. "Return power
87 Schoenorama : QIguy24: "...if the spanish people didn't want their soldiers in Iraq, why was Aznar leading the election then before the coward terrorist act in Madr
88 QIguy24 : Schoenorama, I agree with you that they throw away their loss. And they deserved to loose. You vote for your leaders becasue you believe in them. And
89 Post contains links Schoenorama : Some additional info for L-188 I just came accross: "The Bush administration's plans for a new caretaker government in Iraq would place severe limits
90 L-188 : "The Bush administration's plans for a new caretaker government in Iraq would place severe limits on its sovereignty, including only partial command o
91 Schoenorama : L-188: "New Info that only came out yesterday." The sovereignty-issue has been discussed for ages now, and not many people believed the claims about s
92 N79969 : "If only Aznar would have acted as a trully democratic elected President 1 year ago, he would have listened to his country's opposition to the sending
93 N79969 : "Iraq will be ruled by Iraqis. Period. That is freedom." It looks someone forgot to look up the word "freedom." Until you look up the word, don't use
94 ROSWELL41 : Thank God for Great Britain and Italy. They are truly friends of America.
95 QIguy24 : Roswell, Yep. Thank god for them huh? That's really great that someone want to kiss GWB's ass. The man went to a war about something that didn't exist
96 Schoenorama : N79969: "This is not about Aznar. Sure, he did some rotten things such as lie about the culprits behind 3/11 but it is irrelevant." Quite frankly, N79
97 N79969 : Schoenorama, I told you several times that I agree that the withdrawal of Spain's troops was a campaign promise. But you treat it as if it has all occ
98 Post contains images Schoenorama : N79969: "Aznar nor Bush nor Blair lied. There is a huge difference between lying and being wrong." When we're talking about 5 year olds who do not kno
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