777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1785 times:
Britons seem quite happy with the way the EU is now. Simply because they don't (say) want to use the Euro, or are in favour of expansion of the powers Brussels has - including the use of a common constitution - does not mean they're anti-EU, or want to leave.
PHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1785 times:
I would like to see the UK in the EU. It is a vibrant, cosmopolitan country that has much to offer to the entire continent. However, if, instead of offering constructive criticism and pushing for reform, the country starts to seriously undermine European integration, I don't think that an EU without it would be an insurmountable tragedy. The EU is far, far from a perfect organization, but other countries have made it clear that they are committed to further European integration. The British should realize that their country is now one of 25 forming the EU, that it is no more important than the continent, and that the anti-European attitude among a portion of its population is becoming a serious issue.
TWISTEDWHISPER From Sweden, joined Aug 2003, 709 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1781 times:
Sweden out of EU!
I see no reason WHATSOEVER why we should be in that crap, it's just so damn rediculous! The only one benefiting on EU are the farmers of France, Spain and Italy, and the new members...
Why should we be in a cooperation with countries that can not stick to things that has been agreed amongst the other countries.... the budget thing for example... we all agreed that the deficit should not go below 3% of the GDP, then what happens? Germany and France goes Oh, we can't stick to that because of some reason...
I think both Sweden and UK and Denmark and a couple of other countries should leave the EU asap. Maybe start a union of our own...
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1767 times:
PHX-LJU: The British should realize that their country is now one of 25 forming the EU, that it is no more important than the continent, and that the anti-European attitude among a portion of its population is becoming a serious issue.
Look, I take no issue with your general comments, but this part is rather a subjective one isn't it? What on earth makes you think that anyone believes we're somehow "more important"? I've never heard anyone seriously use that as an argument. As for the second bit, anti-EU is not anti-European, there's a difference, heaven only knows that as an American you should realise that, such as when people have a pop at George Bush. And the displeasure isn't a "portion" either, it's a majority. Have a think about why this is and give your reasons, but to dismiss it like that is to under-estimate the importance of it.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
TWISTEDWHISPER From Sweden, joined Aug 2003, 709 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1752 times:
Well, you're kind of right.... although, when Ingvar Carlsson handed in the application to become a member of the EC as it was called back then, he did that on his own initaitive, we had nothing to say about it, no election no nothing.... and later, when it was time to vote about it, they said that it would cost us to much to leave, that Sweden would be fined for contract breaking so and so...
My point is that we were NOT free to choose...
And when it come to EFTA, a membership in the EU automatically revoke your EFTA membership...
I want the UK in as long as Sweden is in, UK is a strong economy, and they're a contributing country... the more contributers and fewer benefiters, the better....
Damirc From Slovenia, joined Feb 2004, 690 posts, RR: 8 Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1744 times:
Not a citizen of the member states yet, but ....
I'd love to see them stay in the EU, but it's their own free choice to stay or leave.
I think it's time for the EU bureuacracy to realize that what they are doing is seriously flawed someplace, since I only hear people rant about how they don't like this or don't like that. What about the gains? Are there really no gains you perceive?
And re: new countries having the benefits ... well, Slovenia is expected to become a net contributor immediately, so I guess we won't be benefiting a lot in financial terms
Arsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7791 posts, RR: 23 Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1717 times:
You want the UK out of the EU? Your wishes will be granted soon!
Your petty and childish rants won't do anything apart from harden the stance of anti-europeans even more. Other than that, the rest of your post is just nationalistic crap, and your opinions won't make a shred of difference on what happens to the UK in the EU either.
Saintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1692 times:
I think that really the majority of the British think it is a good idea to be in A EU. What pisses us off is certain countries and in particular France, conveniently ignore the rules when it is not in their interests. A good example of this is the ban on British beef. France illegally banned our beef exports, were heavily fined for it but never paid up. When their beef was suspect you never heard a word from them.
We follow the rules even though it is to our disadvantage. All we want is an even playing field. If we had that you would find a lot more support from here.
Derico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4233 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1685 times:
A view from outside may be useful.
I know a lot about the EU because I choose to inform myself. Had I not done so, I would know quite little about it. My average friend in the United States or Argentina knows little about the EU. EXCEPT that they seems always against something: against the US in Iraq (though some member states are not, the perception remains), against ARG with agricultural subsidies and protection to their steel and machinery industries, against both countries in the issue of genetically modified products, etc.
Others (including myself partly), perceive correctly or not that the EU has been partially hijacked by partisans in Europe to use it as an instrument of anti-Americanism. I'm sure on many issues the EU disagrees with the US on principle and not politics, but the fact that confrontation has increased dramatically in the last few years is not in doubt. How much of this is the United States's own doing by it's controversial policies and how much is a reactionary opposition by the EU is debatable.
I think the EU has an image problem as increasingly bureaucratic, in ways people don't understand, including Europe itself. That is a main reason you see these developments around Europe against EU encroachment in sovereign affairs. As for Britain, that country has historically had a xenophobic streak with continental Europe so it is not surprising there is resistance there to the ideals the EU confronts Britons with.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
Bmi330 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1449 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1682 times:
The EU a waste of money anyways put it this way do you no who your mep is? Anyways there is to many divides within Europe still and the founders aka Germany, France etc have it way to good. Plus the EU need the UK more than we need it. France and Germany and possibly northern Italy and smaller economies within the eu cant pay for the deficit the UK provides if we left especially when new member's arrive.
FlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 11 Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1679 times:
The whole concept of the EU for us is flawed now, it might be working for countries like Germany, France, Spain & Italy etc... but it is not doing us any good so to speak, being stuck in the EU has practically killed our farming industry yet other EU members farming industries flurish even to the point of Grain mountains and milk lakes (True, I did about it in Geography).
Another problem with the UK and the EU is that we are not a nation which is comfortable with being ruled (or ruled in part) by a forign body, We should have the right to make our own laws and stick by them just like any other country should/does. For example, Caning was a common punishment in the IOM, yet a few years ago this got banned because someone compained to the EU court of Human rights and said it was against human rights. Or perhaps one which still p*sses a lot of us off is that we are restricted on fishing in our own areas whilst the Spanish fishermen (rouges) invade our areas constantly and take our fish, note that they are reducing our quota again.
The concept of the free or open borders is a big problem for us too, with the new member states arriving soon we are expecting a large influx of immigrants coming here now that they can do so freely. Although we have jobs for many of them there is still a concept of "why can't we get rid of our own employment problems first?", also immigration as a whole is becoming a problem for us and with the French attitude towards the Chunnel it is hard not to understand why both us and France are not on the friendliest of terms.
Within the next few years I can see the UK withdrawing from the EU, weather it was a government decision or the goverment being pressured into it by the population remains to be seen but there is an ever increasing number of residents who are getting very tired of the EU shennanigans very quickly.
Also it is worth noting that we don't have too much of a say on any major descisions in this country, They call it a democracy and look at it, we never got to choose weather we want(ed) to go to war, weather we should quit the EU and what our taxes should be spent on but instead the country is left in the hands of someone who in effect can do what he likes because he knows full well he wont be elected next time around.
I am fairly anti-EU, I can agree with what it started out as and it's causes but it has grown into a large problem for ourselves. It would be better if we dropped out and joined the commonwealth again and had Canadian and New Zealand beef instead of French stuff, and we were allowed to govern ourselves without being interfered with by a bunch of pen pushers who half of them to be frank slip off out the back way and head out of BRU quickly (As repoted in a paper recently) - NB: not the Sun or any of that tabloid crap which I refuse to read.
PS:- There could be one drawback, if the UK dropped out of the EU then what would happen to Airbus, they couldn't just boot us out of there because we are one of the key components.
* Sorry if I offended anyone with the above text but I just wanted to clear a few things up and air my own opinion.
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
Zak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8 Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1658 times:
i think it is very apparent that there are rather significant differences between member states at the preferred speed and depth of integration.
that is why i favour a less idealistic and more progressive approach, similar to the EURO currency.
let those who want to have the constitution join and form a core eu while the other countries can do whatever they want.
Derico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4233 posts, RR: 13 Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1657 times:
Actually, I had heard the UK is not really a net contributor, nor is it a recepient, but I could be wrong. The reason for this is that there are several areas in England (particularly Wales), that get development aid similar to southern Italy and Ireland. But I admit my information is a few years old.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 34 Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1609 times:
OUT for heaven's sake, out as fast as possible!!!!!!...You see, I work parttime in London and intend to do so for another few years to come...should the EU fail, I can re-locate quite easily to an economically rather healthy country, that I happen to like, too, well at least the capital
And now again in earnest: No, they belong to Europe, period! And they do have to give a few things to the rest, that is quite relevant...I don't mean the money!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
25 Banco: Derico, the UK is the second largest net contributor after Germany. To be honest, I don't think we could complain about that. The economy pretty much
26 QIguy24: Super alliance UK/US/Japan that sounds more like it and maybe Russia and Scandinavia and you mite have tempted Spain before the change of government p
27 Paulc: Banco, agree with your point about the CFP - it is fortunate that the UK has 80% of fish stocks and to share them is not unreasonable. What I object t
28 GKirk: Have to say though, the French do make bloody nice wine
29 Banco: The Spanish make better wine than the French though. Cheaper too. The problem I have the CFP is that it seems to happen because no-one's that fussed.
30 UA 777: The UK is a part of Europe and DOES benefit from the EU as other countries do as well. I like the UK and would deeply regret it if they chose to leave
31 Andreas: Banco, cheaper yes, better..well...no! Top of the line wine is still best from France, but average-priced wines, ok, one should take Spanish wines int
32 GKirk: Andreas, I thought all Germans were banned from drinking wine after that incident with the guys from Berlin
33 Pilot kaz: guys (mainly Andreas and Kirkie) dont turn this in to another bashing thread, we have our "Do we want the euro in the UK" still alive as for the topic
34 Banco: UA777, I do wonder why some people here get all in a lather about other countries going ahead and even unifying (as has been casually mooted with Fran
35 Sebolino: Actually Spanish wine is VERY expensive in France, and you find really low Spanish wine for the same price as an average Bordeaux (which is still a go
36 Banco: Hardly surprising though, Seb. France is bound to support it's own wine industry, and if it is as big as you have, why would you import someone elses?
37 Andreas: Duly noted, I'll try to find it. I usually buy French wine in France or in Luxembourg, strongly recommended price-wise! Nowadays good wine, really goo
38 Banco: True, Andreas, but they also all buy Renaults, Peugeots and Citroens, so their judgement can't be that great!
39 Andreas: From what I hear (and see) you guys are still buying English cars...now what does that tell us?