PROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4 Posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2469 times:
An article in today's New York Times about the rise of ultra-radicalism among some Muslims living in Europe (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/international/europe/26EURO.html?hp) is just the latest in along series of negative news reports about this group. To go by reports in the American media, one would conclude the Muslims in France, Germany, Britain and others places are overwhelmingly poor, largely confined to inner-city ghettos or bleak suburban housing projects, totally incapable of assimilation into society, and growing more and more fundamentalist with each generation.
Are these media reports largely accurate or mostly exaggerated? Americans have difficulty understanding Muslims, perhaps because we fear them, so it's not hard to imagine that the U.S. news media can be inaccurate in its reporting on this subject. Hopefully some European a-netters can offer a different perspective.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
Alessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2461 times:
Depends on which ethnic group, the Turks seem to do well in many European
countries, the Libanese as well, Pakistanis seem also to do well. Problem is the large groups of Iranians, Iraqis,
Somalis and Algerians have a hard time in many European countries.
Racko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4887 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2433 times:
For Germany it is true, they largely failed to integrate into the society. Of course there are also good examples, but generally speaking, they are poor, they don't speak the language very well, do bad in school and live in "Ghettos".
KEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2414 times:
Americans have difficulty understanding Muslims, perhaps because we fear them
Sorry to hear that Americans feel that way, I can understand why with what has happened during 9/11 and the media isn't helping at all. Maybe you should get to know them personally rather than learning from the media. Sadly bad apples can be found in all communities.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14674 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2402 times:
Those Muslims, who attract the negative attention are those who don´t (want?) to fit themselves into the local society and who are being notice for dressing themselves differently or acting differently than the mainstream. There are plenty of Muslims from different countries in Germany, whom you just don´t notice, because they´ve integrated themselves, like e.g. my Turkish supervisor (who BTW gets along very well with our Greek station manager). Of course it are mostly the uneducated people, who withdraw themselves into their respective ghetto.
Tbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2397 times:
I will say I don't know what its like in Europe, but it appears that here in the United States that Muslim immigrants have integrated themselves well into society. There are neighboorhoods of course for certain groups, but I still feel that they are well integrated into society.
I will also venture to say that Americans as a whole are not fearful of Muslims in our country, but are more "watchful" of the radical ones abroad that are stirring up the trouble. I don't like the image that we are a fearful and ignorant people, because I don't think its true.
Ryanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3222 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2384 times:
Depends. In the UK, Iraqis, Pakistanis and Iranians are generally well educated and many are doctors and pharmacists etc. The Bangladeshis and lower-class Pakistanis however don't tend to fare so well with the exception of the more enterprising Bangladeshis who run about 95% of the Indian restaurants in the UK.
The Somalis are among the most stupid people you could ever hope to meet - they just tend to piss about all day in Somali cafes and have loads of babies - many Muslim friends of mine regard the Somalis as a laughing stock in Islamic circles. The Afghans tend to drive minicabs or open convenience stores.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4049 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2363 times:
From what I've seen in areas such as Bradford and Slough, many of them don't seem interested in integrating in the mainstream society, and prefer to live in semi isolation from the rest of the population in their own communities and many still only speak their own languages and cannot speak English.
They are even trying to get the government to fund them to have their own dedicated Muslim Only schools. In Bradford for example they even run trips between the Muslim only schools and regular schools as some of the Muslim children have never even seen or spoken to white children !!!.
This I think also helps the more radical groups as they can move freely amongst their own communities without raising suspision from anyone and helps them to get new recruits to fight for their causes.
I think if they made more of an effort to integrate themselves like the hindus and seikhs have then there would be less hatred directed towards them from white people and maybe everyone would benefit from a better understanding of each others cultures.
I think the thing that p!$$es most white people of though is that they come over here and then expect everyone to let them live like they want and do what they want to do whilst constantly playing the race card when they don't get their own way and with a total disregard and disinterest in how we live and do things in this country.
Where I live for example there is a Mosque just down the road, it's next to a dual carridgeway with double yellow lines all the way down but every Friday afternoon there are loads of cars parked all over the pavements and along the double yellow lines, but the council and the Police do nothing about it, where as they went and ticketed and towed away peoples cars when they were illegally parked outside a church !!!!.
(Obviously there are exceptions to this but thats how a majority of the muslim population live)
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
Rjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2295 times:
One of the huge problems in France is immigrants refusal/inability to assimilate. There are parts of Paris where you hear more Arabic than French, and I don't think the French government and society is too crazy about this. Hence the headscarf ban and their general attitude towards immigrants. France also has a large problem with Arab immigrants attacking Jews, but that is another story.
As far as I know, the Pakistani population in England is probably the most assimilated/well off of the large immigrant groups in Europe. Germany has a huge Turkish population and that has led to some tension but the situation is ok overall. France is still having a lot of problems though.
It's ironic. In the 1960s and 70s, the European governments criticized the US over the treatment of African Americans. Now France is being soooooooooo moralistic with their treatment towards minorities!
Yak42 From Ireland, joined Oct 2000, 802 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2253 times:
You should know that Islam is not an un-european religion. Some European countries are traditionally and predominantly moslem like Albania, Bosnia, european Turkey, Kosovo(will be a country Im sure) and southern former soviet countries. Also large swathes of southern Europe were part of the islamic Ottoman empire which left behind muslim minorities in some countries and the iberian peninsula(Spain and Portugal) was ruled by the islamic Moors. So you should remember that Islam is not just an immigrant's religion in Europe it is also an indiginous religion in some places too.
Sevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2196 times:
yeah-it must be awful to be able to preach hatred and get away with it-well they do here in the UK-if i stood ona a street and told people to kill british people (despite the fact tht i live there) then I would be arrested. People like Hamza get away with encouraging evil-must be a tough life.
QIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2193 times:
That's like Hiz but Tahrir or how ever they pronounce their name.. They preached hatred against jews in Denmark and got away with it. It's terrible that they can be allowed to make speeches like that in OUR countries where they came to because they wanted "help".
Edit: I just remembered about the Imam that recently got thrown out of france because he preached that it's ok to beat the shit out of women. I think that is great. But I'm just afraid that he will do the same thing when he returns to his native country.
QR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2179 times:
I'm also happy that they threw that man out, Qlguy24! It is very sad how some men abuse woman, and how they find woman inferior to them.
I personally disagree with forcing the removal ofthe headscarf, it is something that many Muslims see as necessary to be worn, and I don't see how removing it helps with anything. I believe that they should be allowed to wear the headscarf, and not be attacked for it. Also, to clarify my place on these things, I disagree with the removal of that Christian cross from the classroom in Italy, Italy is tradionally Catholic and they should be able to hang that up in a classroom.
QIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2177 times:
I agree with you on that headscarf case. But on the other hand, when we visit arabian countries our women are forced to wear headscarf even though they don't like it. And I can't se how that can hurt the country we visit..
QR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2179 times:
Only country that forces it is Saudi, and I think Iran, so its not all, just these two extremes. Most of the woman in my own family dont wear a headscarf, so its a very big generalization that all Muslims wear it.