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Juan Sebastian Veron - What Do You Think Of Him?  
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1433 times:

THE JSV APPRECIATION THREAD: A Chelsea Perspective!

I've been one of Juan Sebastian Veron's biggest fans since I first saw him rise to prominence in Italy. At Lazio he was the finest midfielder on the planet, and I’ve not seen a more complete and awesomely assembled midfielder since those days. He was awesome. Tall, tough, utterly dominating, and capable of the sublime with the ball at his feet in a central role. I remember how Lazio came to the Bridge in our first Champion's League soiree, and with Veron pulling the strings, pulled us apart - and well beat us in the end. Mihailovich stunner of a free-kick, and a Simone Inzaghi goal did the damage, but Veron was man of the match and simply tore us apart. He was the finest midfielder on the planet at that time.

What happened?

He is a class apart, but our Alopecian Argentine must be handled with care. He needs a central role and to play him out wide is to invite difficulties. He is a confidence player, and needs time on the ball. The reason that his only decent games for United last season were in Europe was because you get longer on the ball than in the frenetic Premiership. The reason he has been so limited a success at Chelsea is because teams come to the Bridge and have the game plan of not letting our players have time on the ball, and close them down quickly. Veron can be snuffed out of games in this fashion. He would flourish in an Arsenal shirt, because he is capable of the little defence splitting pass that would get Henry 30+ goals a season - and teams do not close Arsenal down like they do to us, more that they tried to close down the space, and prevent Henry, Pires and the others from running into space. Seba would have more time in an Arsenal shirt and would benefit from this. He also needs a minder in the middle to take care of the tougher side of things, so a central pairing of Viera and Veron would be awesome. He is not a versatile player, and to try to get him to do things that are not a part of his fabulous but limited repertoire, is a mistake. Ranieri cites Seba as the best midfielder on the planet - i think in a slower paced European game, with time to do something with the ball at his feet, options ahead of him, and support either side, a fully-fit Seba would certainly be a contender to this throne.

We have seen only tiny flashes of his undoubted brilliance this season. He has not been fully fit at all during the season, and has endured a torrid time settling in and finding a new house etc. The continued midfield hyperbole that is Frank Lampard has meant that he has found a central role through the middle impossible to get. Unfortunately for Seba, Local Hero Joe Cole is ahead of him in the central midfield pickings, and so he has been played out wide, out of position, not fully fit. Even so, he has battled gamely, and tried hard, but he needs more time than the Premiership can give him, especially out wide, where he gets little support. Despite this, we have still seen some touches of class, with the excellent through balls and on-the-dime cross-field efforts to put in Damien Duff on a number of occasions. Then there’s the Argentinean thing.

Like it or not, we, as a nation, don’t like Argentina, harking back to the Falklands War, and the whole Hand of God thing. Few, if any, Argentineans make it to the Premiership let alone make it in the Premiership. This means he has to try harder and do it better, cleaner, and more impressively than anyone else just to get acceptance. If Seba was English he would have Beckham-esque status. But he isn’t, and people seem to be willing the guy to fail. You only have to listen to the fans at the Bridge when he comes on for their favourite son Joe Cole. There are howls of derision and boos. It’s got the affect the guy. Joe Cole has done nothing in his career thus far, and fine player though he is, has done little to show me that he can be as good as Seba was or is. Granted he tries hard, and has a work rate to put most at the club to shame. But he does not score enough goals, and is too wayward in his passing.

Form is temporary, class is permanent. An on song Seba is much more of a threat going forward, and will get you a similar strike rate to Lampard from the central midfield role. Joe Cole and Seba Veron are so similar in styles, though they could hardly look more different. There is no room for both players at the club, and i questioned why they were both signed back last summer - it makes no footballing sense, more so when you see Lampard's continued excellence. One has to go, and i cant see Seba staying - Joe Cole, despite doing very little in a Blues shirt of any substance this season, has something of a cult following, and whilst Seba has done even less, he has been injured for most of the season with a potentially career-threatening back injury. He has been rushed back before he was ready by a manager who failed to recognise the damage that would be done to Seba's fragile confidence when the fans got on his back for the little things that creep into your game after so long out.

I thought Seba was excellent in his Premiership comeback - looked a bit lightweight but looked good. He came on to keep the ball against Monaco second half, and did so. He just wasn’t fit enough to tackle back, and when the ball was lost (and to be fair how many passes of his went astray? Not as many as Makelele, Hasselbaink and others I’ll bet) he could do little to win it back. Seba got the blame for a shocker of a performance, and i though he did ok. He was 40% fit, trying to organise and effectively direct a midfield grotesquely out of shape and formation, against a snap-tackling, hard working Monaco team expressly told to go out and get in there early. For him to be as badly vilified as he was, is not at all fair. It was Ranieri's fault plain and simple. Seba should not have played.

To sum up, I still believe that Seba is a top player for us. He needs a full, unhindered pre-season, to build everything back up. He is 29 - he probably has another five years in him and should be at the peak of his game. I still believe that a 4-5-1 system would suit Chelsea, and that Seba should be the attacking midfield player playing behind the lone Crespo. Parker and Lampard behind him, with Beckham and Duff out wide.

The problem is that will never happen. Mourinho is a 4-4-2 nut, and wont play anything else. Seba will be quietly shown the door I suspect, as we cannot accommodate him and Lampard in the same side - much as i like Seba, if I had to choose one, Lamps would obviously be it. The guy has done all he can, and has been very unlucky. He will go for about six or seven million quid, and if I was a European manager, I’d snap him up in a heartbeat. He is not versatile, and you have to protect him, but if you allow him time, he will destroy teams. He is sublimely skilful, strong, a good dead-ball specialist, an accurate crosser, pass master supreme, and he can tackle - not many people see it, and its not widely known, but he can tackle. He scores goals, and makes goals for forwards. He is coming into his prime, and I would surmise that there is no better footballing brain playing anywhere in the modern game - and I cant remember seeing a player as comfortable on the ball with it at his feet since his halcyon days at Lazio.

Seba is a class act - and I will be very sorry to see him hounded out. Watch him return to Italian football and re-attain his Best Midfielder in The World title. He doesn’t have Zidane's unpredictability, Figo's directness, Nedved's trickery, or Lampard's popularity but I’d have him in my side any day. Such a shame he has had his Chelsea career ruined by bad luck and poor judgement, and a few small minded xenophobic boo-boys

Anyone else a Seba Veron fan? Any Lazio fans here want to tell me im right? Any United fans want to disagree?

COME ON YOU BLUES!

CM




What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineZizou From Australia, joined Oct 2000, 1535 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1422 times:

Chris,

Seba was once a very good player, I agree with you wholeheartedly, but unfortunately injuries has caught up with him and he is now a shadow of himself. He is not suited to English Football, he needs time on the ball and hence, Spain or a return to Italy would be good for him. I like Seba, he is one of the good guys of football. But even when he was playing well, unlike Zidane (the King of football INMHO) he fades away in the big games.

Is Mourinho a certainty to come to Stanford Bridge? I think he is heading to Real Madrid and this is all a smokescreen. But if he does come, he will bring along with him, the prodigiously gifted Deco and there will be no room for Veron then.

Teams don't close us, because we move the ball around at great speed and base our football on movement, speed, deception and counter attacks, thats why teams find it hard to close us. But its very hard to do time and time again, so often we do struggle, but when it comes of, we mostly win. Chelsea don't do that, under Rainieri, they tend to move the ball to the flanks, for the waiting wingers and the roving fullbacks to cross/pass the ball in to the centre for the likes of Lampard, Jimmy and Eidur.

There is also talk of Beckham coming to the Bridge and that will just upset the players even more, in respect to rotation etc. So if Deco and co do come, we will see less and less of Parker and Cole unfortunately.

Anyway, I am looking fwd to this weekend when we hopefully finish unbeaten and parade the EPL trophy around Highbury!


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1413 times:

Zizou - i think you will be very surprised at our line up next season. Mourinho plays a rigid four four two.

We will have Eidur or Crespo up front with a new striker - Jimmy is on his way, and i think Muuuutuuuu might be too (sad to say, as i love him!) The new striker will be a pace man, so i think either Trezuguet or Ronaldo will come.

Robben wide left with Duff's shoulder injury, Lampard in the middle with Parker in the Makelele role (Make's a cheat - no place for him in our side i dont care who hes played for or what he's won) and Beckham wide right.

Our back four will be Bridge at left back, Terry and either Gallas or Walter Samuel as the two centrebacks, and Glen Johnson at right back. We may buy Lucio for right back, in which case he'd probably get the nod. Obviously Carlo in goal.

A bench of:
Gudjohnsen/Crespo
Joe Cole
Geremi
Cech
Duff/Robben

Thats far more balanced than our current team. Be worried!  Big grin

CM



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineRoberta From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1406 times:

ahh this makes me remember the good old days of football Italia on Channel 4. When Veron was with Lazio he was sick. He used to score directly from cornes, But ever since his unt move he has been shite. why he came to Chelsea i dont know, a move to Seria A would have done him good.

I cant see him in Chelsea colours next season. This Mourinho you are getting should give you that cutting edge you lack.

(Make's a cheat - no place for him in our side i dont care who hes played for or what he's won)

as well as Desailly and Gudjohnson.

PS is it weird supporting a fantasy team. If it happend to my team i would be dissapointed, it would feel tainted.


User currently offlineJuanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1401 times:

Well, he was a good player, it is a shame for him that the only good team in which he have played is Argentina's National Team, I do not know why but it seems that Argentinian players (even Brazilian but that has changed) have not been to succesful playing in English teams. It is curious to see how Costa Rican (Wanchope), Peruvian (Solano), and even a couple of Colombian players (Angel and Asprilla) have been famous in English teams. (Of course Gilberto is a very, very good player too).

Juan
SKBO


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

RobertaFlack:

We are not a fantasy team - at least its interesting supporting Chelsea - not like being a "who shall we beat today?" Gooner. Doesnt that get boring knowing that all you have to do is turn up and you'll beat someone? Eevn if they knock four past you and you have four minutes to go all you have to do is knock the ball over the top for Henry to run on to- Bolton at home or Liverpool away - it doesnt matter - you will still win every time. THAT must be boring. We are more of a "fantasy team" (whatever that is) now with so many players in our squad and no place to play them - Mourinho will come in and cull two thirds of the squad. Of course with Beckham and Ronaldo in our side, added to Terry, Lampard, Duff, Bridge and the rest - i'd fully expect you to call us a fantasy team.

Im not into making bold predictions, but i suspect we may improve on this years rather gutless at times performance and really give you a run for your title. Can you stay unbeaten for two whole premiership seasons? I'm sure you gooners will be giving it large down the boozer saying that you will never lose a game anywhere ever in the history or future of football ever again, and that the Champions League will be won by you by November this year, but i remain quietly confident. Once we learn how to break teams down, and have some continuity and balance in the side - we will be a far harder proposition next season.

CM




What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12037 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1388 times:
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We are not a fantasy team - at least its interesting supporting Chelsea - not like being a "who shall we beat today?" Gooner.

So, if Chelsea went unbeaten next season and won the league, you'd think it was boring?  Insane

[meanwhile, back on topic]

IMHO, JSV showed flashes of genius at MU, but too infrequently. In the last World Cup he was swamped in midfield and never showed what he's capable of - but credit to the teams playing against him. Nicky Butt played a blinder against Argentina and stopped JSV in his tracks.

In the right team, playing the right style, JSV is very good. However, if he was a great player, he would make his mark in games regardless of the style of play, or the opposition. He doesn't, and I'm afraid that makes him less of a great player than some of his supporters would like to believe he is.

Sometimes, who you're playing against can have an effect on how you play. I can't recall a single game that Beckham has played against Roberto Carlos where Carlos hasn't had Beckham in his pocket. In the end, I think it becomes a mental thing - "Oh no, I'm playing against Carlos again. I never have a good game when he's playing!" Maybe that's why Beckham joined Real? Unfortunately, in JSV's case, there are too many of those types of games.



Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
User currently offlineRoberta From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1387 times:

Of course Gilberto is a very, very good player too.

i cant figure out if your being sarcastic or not but he is quite a good player although a few lessons in finishing would benefit him greatly.

As for Chelsea, im sure they will improve next season how can they not. in 5 years no-one will be able to get anywhere near Chelsea with there new manager and unlimited spending power. And i can assure you that Arsenal will not complete another season unbeaten, they were lucky not to lose the 5th game of this season.

Also ive had enough of people saying we are a one man team. Maybe without Vieira, Pires, Campbell, Toure, Cole, Bergkamp, Reyes and Lauren we would be nothing. but we would still be a fantastic team without Henry and still probably the best in the league. Henry has very little to do with are defensive record, which happend to be the tightest in the league and i seem to recall beating Chelsea without Herny earlier in the Season. And anyway we have Henry so people should stop winging about us being nothing without Henry.

And no it doesnt get boring watching us win every time. The best thing about Arsenal is that they are a pleasure to watch no matter what the final score is.


User currently offlineJuanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1376 times:

Hi Roberta, well I wasn't being sarcastic, I really think that he is a very good player, and you are absolutely right, watching an Arsenal game is a real pleasure for the eye.

Juan
SKBO


User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1368 times:

I am reminded of an old joke.

Fergie was walking along the beach in Buenos Aires when a beautiful young woman approaches him.

"You're Alex Ferguson aren't you? Can I have your autograph please?"

And with that she lifted up her skirt, pointed to her imaculately shave parts and said "Sign here!"

Fergie replied " No way!, the last time I signed a bald Argentinian c**t it cost me £18 million"


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1353 times:

I think Veron was mistreated in Italy, he got a Italian passport on false grounds and was forced to leave the country. His poor english didn´t help
him either at ManU, hope he likes it better at Chelski...


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1345 times:
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Expensive failure.

Veron was a joy to watch when he was in Serie A, since moving to the Premiership it's gone downhill. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this season because he was injured, but 2 years at Man Utd and he didn't exactly light up the place did he? Maybe English football isn't suited for him with the fast pace, little time on the ball and the rough 'n' tumble. Whatever the reason, Chelski should sell for what they can and instead give Joe Cole a lengthy in the team.



In Arsene we trust!!
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