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Time For UN Sanctions Against Israel?  
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3422 times:

Now lets get theis straight - I'm not talking about who is right and wrong with regards to the Palestinian situation, nor do I condemn terrorism. But what is unacceptable is the fact that Israeli troops have fired into a crowd of unarmed demonstrators causing multiple casualties. We all know that Israeli prosecutions of the guilty parties are likely to be virtually non-existent (which hardly sends out a good image), so isn't it about time that the international community sends out the strongest possible message that these actions are unacceptable for a nation that calls itself a democracy? I.e. if Israel does not punish the perpetrators in the strongest terms then the UN should seek to address the situation by the imposition of sanctions. The UN has done this with other nations who massacre unarmed civilians so I don't see the difference.

BTW before this turns into a flame war I concur that Israel has the right to defend itself from terrorism, but in this instance the casualties were unarmed civilians and definitely not a situation where Israeli troops were acting in self defence.

Any comments?


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

The UN is very known for always condeming Israel, but not saying a word to other nations that do far worse things. Israel has gotten used to the anti-Zionist, anti-Semitic views of the UN, and more or less ignores the organization. As does the US, for similar reasons.

User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3402 times:

Well possibly, but a UN condemnation of this massacre is hardly anti semetic. It is simply a condemnation of the killing of unarmed demonstrators.

Look at the US in Iraq with the Abu Ghraib situation. Sure atrocities were committed but the perpetrators are facing justice. This is highly unlikely to happen in Israel, which kind of sends out the message that it is semi-acceptable to kill the civilians.



I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

This is highly unlikely to happen in Israel, which kind of sends out the message that it is semi-acceptable to kill the civilians.

It doesn't help dispel that myth, with the fact that the IDF is quite private about its internal workings, court-martials, and so on. I don't think we could find out if those troops were facing charges for what they've done, as it would be under the catch-all "matter of national security" clause.

The IDF is not known for openly charging or reprimanding soldiers which use poor judgement, like the US Army with their disgraces-in-uniforms in Abu Gharib.

The crowd was unarmed? Hrm, that's rather unique for Palestinian demonstrators......



"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineLeviticus From New Zealand, joined Oct 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

Would not a resolution be required ? It would have to pass the security council, so maybe in theory but never in the real world  Laugh out loud

User currently offlineJutes85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

Why doesn't the UN sanction the US for what they are doing in Iraq? Its all about protecting themselves from terrorists.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3370 times:

Why doesn't the UN sanction the US for what they are doing in Iraq?

Because:
1) the USA was/is completely within the realm of legality for its invasion of Iraq
2) what nation's idiot populace wants to be the first to sever economic ties with the USA? Here's their chance to stand up and be counted.  Insane


User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5911 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3356 times:

1) the USA was/is completely within the realm of legality for its invasion of Iraq
Not true - the UN charter strictly forbids one member country from attacking another member country without UN approval, in form of a resolution. That's what they did the first time around, but this time the evidence were so thin, that the US couldn't gather a majority to get a resolution, that precisely specified that Iraq had failed to comply and that the US & it's Coalition of the Billing were permitted to attack in order to completely rid Iraq of the WMD. And don't give me that crap about resolution 1441, because it does not give the OK for an invastion. Read for yourself: http://www.un.int/usa/sres-iraq.htm

Also, it will be impossible to impose any sanctions on Israel, since their sugar daddy, the US, will veto anything that remotely hurts Israel.


User currently offlineDamirc From Slovenia, joined Feb 2004, 714 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3355 times:

You all forget that the USA will veto any attempt to pass any resolution that would sanction Israel.

Happened before, will happen again.

D.


User currently offlineAGM100 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 5407 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3351 times:

Just as a matter of discussion .. what exactly could the UN sanction against Israel?



You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2963 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

As all of you know, there will NEVER be any resolution against the fascist state of Israel because the US will always veto any such proposal.


Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3342 times:

As all of you know, there will NEVER be any resolution against the fascist state of Israel because the US will always veto any such proposal.

I'm so glad to see that some Germans haven't learned their lesson........

The US really is a protector for the Jews....perhaps the only major western country that goes out of its way to protect them.


User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

I am sure there have been many many many more incidents like this or incidents that truly require an action against Israel according to tru justice, but so far nothing has ever been done, nor do I expect anything like this to be done in the near future. Have to say I do agree with you.

User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

The UN doesn't bother because A. We would veto anything. B. Even if they managed to pass something, we would ignore it. We are Israel's largest trading partner, with the world's most diverse economy, and there's not all that much that the UN could do. They have no fighting force, and we could kick them out of New York. They know damn well that something like that is a stupid move on their part, and they won't do anything.

User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2963 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Hey RJ, since you are such a buff on Zionist issues you will be very capable of telling me that the US did know about the concentration camps.
BUT alas, you are THE expert on everything because you go to Hofstra High...
Anyway, I am more than glad to inform that I am not of German decent, which might surprise an ignorant as you are. There is more than black and white in the world. That's why anybody with a conscience should condemn the fascist Israeli policies.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3330 times:

Hey guys before this descends into an all out flame war (now there's a surprise) I should point out that this relates very little to the US Abu Ghraib incident as in that case the perpetrators are facing justice. My point here is that the Israelis are unlikely to seriously prosecute those guilty, and that is the even bigger crime (as if the massacre isn't bad enough!)


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3325 times:
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A resolution would get vetoed before your eyes by you-know-who, so therefore it would be a pointless exercise. Democracy, fairness and justice are fine attributes only when things go your way, if not, then do whatever the hell is necessary to block it. Fine thing the UN isn't it? Do you know which nation holds the record for vetoed resolutions? Not hard i tell you.





In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

Anyway, I am more than glad to inform that I am not of German decent,

Good. I don't want anybody as low as you spoiling the fantastic image I have of Germans after visiting there recently.

Hey RJ, since you are such a buff on Zionist issues you will be very capable of telling me that the US did know about the concentration camps.

That has been rumored. There is no conclusive evidence that FDR, or Churchill, knew exactly what was going on. They decided to focus on winning the war as fast as possible rather than bombing Auschwitz. Anyhow, what does that have to do with it? Comparing the US government to the Nazi government.......?


User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

BTW L.1011 you know that's bullshit. You seriously telling me that US isolation from the rest of the world would be something the US could take in its stride? No damn way, the effect on the US economy would be crippling and as for the UN having no fighting force - well the UN represents the vast majority of the world and I think you would find that a USA vs rest of the world military contest would be no contest at all!


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3312 times:

Some European countries have banned the import of goods that have been produced in the occupied territories, but I guess there are many who will call this anti-semetic.

Also if sanctions were placed, the US will just ignore it and make up for the loss of any trade by pumping in billions of extra dollars in grants.



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2963 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3304 times:

RJ, I will try to explain, so that even you can understand.

The US didn't give a shit about the Jews in WW2.

Anyway, you are too biased to even try to make conversation with.
I really suggest that you go to Israel and sign up for military service.
Then you can live up to your dream to kill as many non-Jews as possible.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3298 times:

The US didn't give a shit about the Jews in WW2.

This is true to an extent.....However, the US learned a lesson from the Holocaust/WWII and that has been reflected in our policy towards Jews/Israel.


User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2727 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

Regardless of your veiws on UN sactions and the overall US policy toward Jews, the only factor inportant in this whole issue is,

HWIKKKKKK .......... SSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ..........

Not sure of the spelling but that's the sound of america being pussy-whipped by Israel !



" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3284 times:

The US and UN slap sanctions on Iraq for occuping a foreign land and brutalizing its people.

Israel on the other hand (who are accused of the same thing but with even more brutality) get billions of dollars pumped into their failing economy and enjoy the backing of the US in whatever actions they take.


The US attacks the Iraq because they have broken UN resolutions

Israel on the other hand (who are accused of the same thing and have broken even more resolutions) get billions of dollars pumped into their failing economy and enjoy the backing of the US in whatever actions they take.


But I guess double standards and hypocrisy will always exist



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

Just for the record: The UN Security Council has just today issued a resolution against the recent demolition of houses by Israel:

UN press release: [...] The Council voted 14 in favour, with the United States abstaining, to adopt a resolution expressing its grave concern regarding the humanitarian situation of Palestinians made homeless in the Rafah area, and calling for the provision of emergency assistance. [...]


25 Rjpieces : The US and UN slap sanctions on Iraq for occuping a foreign land and brutalizing its people. Israel on the other hand (who are accused of the same thi
26 Horus : Once again, Iraq was a threat to us. Israel is our best friend in the region. See the difference now? O, believe me I see the double standards and hyp
27 Rjpieces : For some Horus, the world does not revolve around the UN and their sanctions! The UN has proven its inability to be an effective world body.
28 Horus : The UN has proven its inability to be an effective world body. Let me re-phrase that for you: The UN has proven its inability to be an effective world
29 Post contains images David b. : Once again, Iraq was a threat to us. Israel is our best friend in the region. See the difference now? LOL What bullshit  Iraq a threat? LOL For some
30 Russophile : What happened on 11/09/2001 was NOT because some Muslims are jealous of McDonalds. It WAS because of the American governments unfettered support for t
31 N6376m : IMO I think that Israel is at time too brutal in its responses causing more collateral damage than necessary. I understand why they respond the way th
32 Rjpieces : Even without AIPAC, Congress would still never allow it. The Congressional Majority Leader, Tom DeLay, is an Evangelical Christian who is more support
33 Post contains images Jutes85 : well the UN represents the vast majority of the world and I think you would find that a USA vs rest of the world military contest would be no contest
34 N79969 : The people of Israel need to wrest control of their country from hard-line settler and get rid of that thug Ariel Sharon. It would be in US interests
35 Rjpieces : I think you would find that a USA vs rest of the world military contest would be no contest at all! Seeing that the US military is larger than the nex
36 N79969 : I generally support Israel and our guarantee of their right to exist. However I don't think of them as much of a valuable ally. They are certainly no
37 Jutes85 : Unless of course you were saying that for the US military it would be no contest. Of course not, our Canadian Army will demolish anything the US throw
38 Post contains images Rjpieces : almost every citizen owns firearms, A slight exaggeration!
39 Jutes85 : However I don't think of them as much of a valuable ally. Israel, in a way, is on the front lines of terrorist against freedom and democracy. So if yo
40 Jutes85 : A slight exaggeration! Lets just say that the bad parts of LA, New York, Chicago and Detroit have more firearms then that of the Canadian Military. An
41 BA : So if you stop supporting Israel, the Arab world will be crawling with idiots that proclaim Jihad. You are quite funny Jutes85......... If the US stop
42 Post contains images Jutes85 : Israel would eventually be forced to let go of Palestine due to continuous resistance and the world would become a much better place.............. Yea
43 FDXmech : >>>BTW L.1011 you know that's bullshit. You seriously telling me that US isolation from the rest of the world would be something the US could take in
44 Cptkrell : I'm not entirely sure why some folks think that he UN is any way relevant to anything internationally, except maybe, being a money-laundering tool or
45 Post contains links Rjpieces : An interesting website that might help explain why Israel ignores the UN: http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/unantisem.html
46 Jutes85 : The US ignored the UN when they went into Iraq, why in the hell can't Israel do it. - BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS!
47 Cptkrell : "The US ignored the UN when they went into Iraq, why the hell can't Israel do it. - BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS!" Ummmm...clarify, please. Do you mean why c
48 Jutes85 : Why can't Israel ignore the UN, but the US can? They are both fighting terrorism.
49 Rjpieces : Cptkrell, Jutes was making the point that a double standard applies to Israel.
50 N79969 : "The US ignored the UN when they went into Iraq, why in the hell can't Israel do it. - BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS!" Nonsense. Disagreeing with Israel is no
51 Rjpieces : Disagreeing with Israel is not anti-semitism. Of course it is not. It is totally ok to disagree with actions of the Israeli government. However, there
52 Cptkrell : O.K., I got Jutes context. I'll bail out of this thread because I personally don't consider the UN or anything much it stands for to be all that honor
53 N79969 : "Of course it is not. It is totally ok to disagree with actions of the Israeli government. However, there are many people in the world, heck many peop
54 Rjpieces : However there is a great deal of criticism of Israel that is not inspired by anti-semitism and is legitimate. Of course there is. As there is a great
55 L410Turbolet : Its funny how those from Arab/Muslim countries are full of double standards this and double standards that while it's the Arab/Muslim World who judges
56 N6376m : The US's role in the Middle East is a moderating one. If the US stopped supporting Israel, I estimate that it would take less than a year for another
57 Horus : Its funny how those from Arab/Muslim countries are full of double standards this and double standards that while it's the Arab/Muslim World who judges
58 Airplay : Its about 50 years too late...the US never should have buckled under the domestic Jewish lobby and supported the Israeli state while foresaking the Pa
59 Rjpieces : Like I said before branding Arabs as anti-semites is not true Ok Horus, would you rather we call you antisemitic, rather than anti-semitic? Either way
60 N79969 : Rjpieces: "When most of the world holds you to standards, but doesn't apply them to ANY other country, then it is antisemitism." Oh come on. I cannot
61 Rjpieces : Fanatics from Brooklyn, thank you for that........ Oh come on. I cannot think of too many other countries that routinely bulldoze peoples' homes and t
62 N79969 : Rjpieces, Let's keep the issues separate. A condemnation of Israeli behavior is no vindication of Arab repression. I never said that. Do not impute ar
63 Post contains links and images Rjpieces : You just negated your own argument from reply 59. Ummm, how? Check into what prominent and influential Jewish groups think about Bush's policy towards
64 Horus : would you rather we call you antisemitic, rather than anti-semitic? Either way, anti-semitism/antisemitism today means hatred against Jews Ok, let me
65 Rjpieces : I am Semetic, so calling me semetic just reflects your intelligence. Second I just explained to you that Arabs do not hate jews but have a problem wit
66 Donder10 : That's why anybody with a conscience should condemn the fascist Israeli policies. Perhaps so but the similarly 'fascist' policies of the Palestinians
67 Jutes85 : Anyways, getting back to the original question, the answer is NO.
68 Krushny : More than 80% of modern Jews have no genologic connection with Jacob [Israel] or his decendants. The vast majority of Jews today trace their origins
69 Horus : Arabs hate Israel Israel hates Arabs/Muslims/anyone who disagrees with them please show me where I tried to change the subjects? Yeah, please, one tim
70 Rjpieces : Israel hates Arabs/Muslims/anyone who disagrees with them Yawn. So you really believe that Arabs don't hate Israel? This thread is about sanctions on
71 BA : Rjpieces, Arabs hate Israel because of what Israel has been doing against the Palestinians for the past 60 years. Arabs are going to hate Israel EVEN
72 Post contains links and images Horus : So you really believe that Arabs don't hate Israel? Well off course there is some bad feeling, but that is understandable seeing how Israel on a daily
73 Rjpieces : The burden of proof is on you Horus. Really? but when you come out with personnel attacks on me and other members you do not share your view, that is
74 Horus : The burden of proof is on you No not at all, your the one making the crazy allegations. You get the proof. Do you know the saying innocent until prove
75 Jutes85 : There are even a number of Likud party members who want Israel to invade its neighbors and take MORE land. A few weeks ago, a parliament member said h
76 Rjpieces : No not at all, your the one making the crazy allegations. You get the proof. Do you know the saying innocent until proven guilty, or do you prefer to
77 Airplay : Remember that America is perhaps the only major nation based on Judeo-Christian values. America has always had a special relationship with the Jews an
78 Yyz717 : UN sanctions against Israel? That will just make Israel stronger. Anything it can't import due to sanctions, it will build itself. Remember that Ameri
79 Post contains links Damirc : You were the one making allegations here!!!!!! And again, you ignore the question, Does Israel have a right to exist? And again, you say you have answ
80 ELAL 744 : Dear Friends, I start by calling you all friends, because in spite of our political differences, we all are friends in our love of aviation – and it
81 JGPH1A : Re: Remember that America is perhaps the only major nation based on Judeo-Christian values. No it isn't - exactly the opposite in fact. The Founding F
82 Ryanb741 : ELAL_744 - thank you for posting just about the most intelligent post in this thread. It is nice to know how an average Israeli feels about this (no P
83 Damirc : ELAL_744 - nice post, honestly. But don't you agree that the leadership of both sides needs to be exchanged? I haven't seen you admit that Ariel Sharo
84 Solarix : Arab countries are allowed to ignore UN resolutions. Israel should be allowed to do it as well it if Arab countries can. It works both ways. I see man
85 Jutes85 : ^^^ No kidding, illegal occupation or not, you can't justify Hamas and Palistinian terrorism. Our Arab friends will tell you otherwise.
86 Horus : Isn't Jihad a "holy war" ? No, that is a misconception, that is not really true. Jihad in Islam simply means striving to please God. It is split into
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