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Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?  
User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Posted (13 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2151 times:

What are your opinions of book banning in schools? I am vehemently against it (as you all probably could have guessed). Students should have as much access to different viewpoints as we do. Book banning is done out of fear. The fear of opinions. Let me tell you about an incident that thrust my little island into the spotlight:

Our own John Carlson (Republican Governor candidate, 2000), thought he would take out his right-wing anger on our Middle School Librarian (who I have met, and is the sweetest person you could ever know). The whole controversy started when 15 years ago, this teacher, alarmed by the number of pregnancies at our local HS, ordered two books: Boys and Sex and Girls and Sex.

A parent was upset by these books, sent in parts of it to this radio station. Now I should state here that these books are very graphic, and quite frank, but there are that way to do a job.

Anyway, John started off his program by saying how the teacher REQUIRED 6th graders to read this book. The first falsity of many, as a Librarian can't make anyone read. And of course any calls pointing out his oversight were not put on the air. Next, he described the "pornographic" pictures in the book. Hmmmm, what's the problem? I've looked at every page in that book, and guess what... NO PICTURES! None whatsoever. Lie number 2.

And unfortunately, the only calls Mr. Carlson let on the air were outraged parents and death threats on this poor teacher's life. And it was only out of the goodness of this teacher's life that she didn't sue Johnny, and he better be thankful, because after all the slander, she could have taken every cent he owned.

For two hours the lies went on. John was out for ratings, nothing else, and that is what really gets me. Challenge a book if you really believe in what you are saying, I will still disagree, but at least I will respect you. I have no respect for John.

18 months of debates later, the school board refused to remove the books, and they sit on their shelf, the same way they did 15 years ago. This is the one time you will ever hear me compliment a school board.

Outrageous, yes? And that even isn't the end of it. John was so happy with his ratings, he did it all over again the next day. Disgusting.

Book banning has no place in our society.


Okay, I'm done venting. Thanks for listening!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Dear moderators: No.
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

Where some schools don't have mandatory sex education classes, or have sex education classes but parents need to give their consent, I feel it is extremely important to have sex ed books available in the school library.

It's so important for teenagers these days to have a thorough understanding of their bodies, the dangers of unprotected sex, how to spot an STD and general sexual health.

I find it quite disgraceful that some puritanical parents may try and have certain things banned.

My year 10 form teacher was the school librarian. She had special screenings of different educational programs for just our class such as sex ed and the disturbing video of Christian F. (drug addict movie) which had been banned in Queensland schools at the time. Why? Because she wanted to make sure we 'knew'. I'm glad my form teacher did that for us, as even though my mother told me about the bird and the bees, I was unaware of STD's and drug addiction.

She also put Penthouse and Playboy into the 'Periodicals' section at one stage after she found requests in the request box at the school library. We all thought that was amusing, certain parents found out though and they were removed. This was in the 80's though.

Cheers,

mb


User currently offlineTupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (13 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2107 times:

Mx5_boy, I agree. However, there is and should be a limit to freedom of speech when it becomes offensive and intrusive on others. Much like the news in the recent past about a Muslim girl that had complaints for her school when her class was reading a book that contained anti-Muslim content. As should be in other similar cases, she should not be forced to read the book that she found to be offensive.

User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (13 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

I believe it was Oliver Wendall Holmes who once said that freedom of speech does not extend to someone who falsely yells 'Fire' in a crowded theatre.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2093 times:

Remember it is supposed to be a school library, therefore connected with education. I would not mind having "Boys and Sex" and "Girls and Sex" in there, seeing that they are (I guess) educational, whereas I don't see the point of having Penthouse and Playboy in there (Although I admit I would have enjoyed it if they had been there  Smile/happy/getting dizzy)

Charles


User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (13 years 5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2091 times:

"The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read. It will be the person who does not know how to learn."

--Alvin Toffler



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlinePacific From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

I heard that "Of Mice and Men" was banned in some US schools. Great book though.

Pacific


User currently offlineAn-225 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 3950 posts, RR: 40
Reply 7, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

I am totally against it. It's another form of censorship.


Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
User currently offlineN766AS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

Well, the schools have no problem infringing on students' other Constitutional rights, so why stop here?

Now, if this was a public library then I'd have major issues with it.

And, Adam, do you ever even listen to the John Carlson show on 570KVI?

Everyone- John Carlson isn't nearly as extreme as Adam makes him out to be. Thats why he won the primary (Republicans--especially in Washington State--don't like extremes!). I would much rather have seen Harold Hochstatter (more conservative than Carlson) in the race.


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

Freedom of Speech does not mean anything goes. As mentioned before, you can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded place (unless there IS a fire), and it is criminal to threaten the President. So use common sense. Should Hustler be available in school libraries? Of course not. If you think a certain book should available, debate that on its purpose and how schools intend to use it as a tool for what they are suppose to be doing, don't just hide behind Constitution. Also keep in mind, most parents work very hard to teach their kids morals and values, and don't want schools mucking that up. They aren't necessarily being puritanical, they just feel the state has no business training them on certain topics. Schools need to stick to educating in the basic curriculum, and not start moving into the realm of 'raising' children; that job is taken. Yeah, I know, some parents do a shitty job raising their kids, but some don't bathe their kids either. Do we want to start having schools bathing kids too? Use common sense on a case-by-case basis, not reactionary emotions based on a general ideal.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineN766AS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

Great post, Jetservice.

User currently offlineAlle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2054 times:

I think book banning is crazy!
In Finland AFAIK the only books banned are books containing Nazi stuff. Once when i was at the school library with my friends 'working' on a project, we found a book about Kama Sutra, so banning books isn't really the case in Finland (if that would've happened in the US somebody would've sued the school). In the US some elementary schools even ban Harry Potter books and that is completely crazy.

Regards
Alexander Holst
Helsinki, FInland
ICQ 94604005


User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

JetService, doing away with book banning doesn't mean anything can get in a library. Remember, there are still teachers who must ORDER the books.

N766AS, I was wondering how you'd defend him, but you are still avoiding the fact that he is an entertainer who will ruin anyone's life to further his career... even YOURS! Maybe you like to see Jerry Springer running for President? Carlson is not a politician, and that is why so many Republicans and Conservatives voted against him.



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2046 times:

Maybe you like to see Jerry Springer running for President?

Don't laugh. Springer was mayor of Cincinnati before his descent into trash TV.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineN766AS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2048 times:

Quite the contrary... Carlson is very much a politican- never an elected official though. He has run many state initiatives, such as the I-200 bill (anti-AA) a couple years ago, the 'Hard time for Armed Crime' initiative back in 95, and the 'Three strikes, you're out' legislation in the early 90s. He founded a political research center in Seattle in the early 80s which was praised by Presidents Reagan and Bush. Hes been a political commentator on radio (named one of the most influential radio personalities) and television, as well as writing a syndicated newspaper column and has appeared in the WSJ and Washington Post.
So I'm sure you've got the idea now. He is not an 'entertainer'. He entered political TV, radio, and print media years after he became politically active. Bill Clinton is much more an entertainer than Carlson.

But I'd rather have someone that's not a politician running this state... we'd get some real change instead of this BS that Locke is giving us.

My stand on the issue at hand is that certain schools should not have certain books, but there shouldn't be a 'banned list'. If someone wants a book so bad, they can go the extra couple blocks to the public library. In short, librarians should use reasonable discretion, something it appears this librarian hasn't done (unless, of course, she is a high school librarian, which she isn't).


User currently offlineN766AS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2044 times:

Oh, speaking of Locke... I can't wait until the whole state government is shut down this week because of his horrible handling of the unions.


Hahahahahahahahahaha  Big grin


User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2039 times:

But I'd rather have someone that's not a politician running this state... we'd get some real change instead of this BS that Locke is giving us.

Be careful what you wish for, Zach. But then, you're too young to remember Dixie Lee Ray...

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineN766AS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2033 times:

No- I'm not too young... I remember (well, not exactly 'remember', but you know what I mean) how poorly Dixy Lee Ray handled the volcano eruption among other things. I guess you could call her term as governor 'interesting'. I wouldn't want just any person running the state, and definately not someone like her.

One thing about Ray that I thought was funny: she named her pigs after news reporters. haha  Big grin


User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2034 times:

she named her pigs after news reporters.

...From the P-I, no doubt Big grin

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (13 years 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2025 times:

Okay, if Carlson is such a God, then what do you think of his "jihad" against a sweet Librarian, who was only trying to do some good, that almost got him sued? Surely you don't advocate the lies and rumors he spread....

You may support him, but you shouldn't be so blind that you can't see what an asshole he was/is.

And I sure as hell wouldn't trust *him* with my pet rock, let alone my state.



Dear moderators: No.
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