Cedarwings From Lebanon, joined Apr 2004, 216 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 956 times:
Don't ever try to compare the Lebanese Army to the IDF.
Killing of innocents is not and will be never a proper way to deal with protesting people. In contrary to the IDF, The Lebanese soldiers involved in shooting of these innocent people acted without orders from their superiors and they are now under interrogation and they will be punished accordingly.
I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth
Cedarwings From Lebanon, joined Apr 2004, 216 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 913 times:
What happened in Beirut today was supposed to be a regular and peaceful protest.
Lebanon is a democratic country, where people are used to protest and express their thoughts publicly and loudly. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case today, as some undisciplined soldiers braked the rule and acted as stated above.
This accident occured in one of Beirut suburban areas where I myself have never been there in my whole life.
Neither Israel, nor the Palestinians has anything to do with this tragedy.
It is just an accident,and accidents happen anytime and everywhere.
Tourists today were everywhere enjoying my country's wonderful cities and historical sites, I doubt they have even heard anything about this issue.
The soldiers involved in the shooting are in custody, and they will be sued and punished accordingly.
Tomorrow will be a usual perfect and sunny day.
[Edited 2004-05-27 22:06:06]
I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth
Tbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7011 posts, RR: 29 Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 881 times:
Its wrong to shoot at protestors...yet it happens. I'm a firm believer that troops don't shoot at protestors for no reason. If the army was guarding the protest, and the protest gets violent to the point where they fear for their safety, then I can only imagine they would shoot.
And anyways, the Yahoo! article said that there were riots, and that 13 Lebanese soldiers were injured as well. So I would go so far as to say that the soldiers acted in their best interests to defend their own lives.
AirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4491 posts, RR: 55 Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 872 times:
MEA310 was telling me that the tank is already at 22,000 for the tank i think. Its amazing how expensive fuel has become. Its a shame that we are so close to the gulf and the khalijis and saudis basically have invaded for their vacations and yet fuel is so expensive.
AA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2465 posts, RR: 32 Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 864 times:
You call this land a Miserable Strip of desert that "no one really wants anyway". Yes, that must be why Israelis are sending tanks and helicopters blowing up buildings and bulldozing homes. That MUST be why Palestinians are killing themselves along with israelis. Have you ever BEEN to any of these places?? I imagine not. If someone were to come to you today and tell you to leave your home, you wouldnt stand for it. You would fight, I suppose. This land was people's livelihoods, their history, their culture, their religious holy grounds. How could you even say such things? This world is a big big place, much bigger than the United States, and I suggest that you realize that real quick. Travel there, and watch the people. Its in there eyes, how much they love that land, they are willing to live through hell, because thats what their home, and NOBODY should be forced to leave their home. I agree that both sides should grow up, but how do you tell two chilren, one bigger than the other, the other with more conviction, to stop fighting? Its quite difficult to do as time has proven.
AA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2465 posts, RR: 32 Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 856 times:
When does anyone from the U.S. call what the IDF a holocaust? Its always, "...rooting out terrorists..."..."....HAD to fire missiles into the gaza strip to kill Terrorists..." Then, my favorite part (sarcasm here) is when they news people mention in passing, "Three men were killed, along with a three year old child and her mother." As if its nothing... Not that they should be Crying or saying 'dam* the israelis..." but they act like its no big deal... sick...
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13332 posts, RR: 64 Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 848 times:
I´m getting fed up off the Israel/Palaestine threads.
To the people on both sides:
1) Face it, no side will be getting rid of the other side without a ethnic cleansng, which will not be tolerated anymore.
This means, neither will the Israeli Jews be pushed into the sea nor will the Arabs be sent to Jordania.
2) Both countries are small and depend heavily on foreign aid. The aid for Israel is mostly coming from the US, while the Palaestinians are receiving aid from the gulf states and the EU. Left alone by themselves they would not be able to sustain themselves. It would make more sense in having a federation or a common state set up.
3) In the long run the Palaestinians and the Israelis need each other. They are neighbours and, even though there has been a series of wars, are closely connected.
My opinion: Kick the selfrighteous radicals out on each side. They need each other to stay in power, on the expenses of their own population. As long as there is a war going on, nobody in Palaestine is going to check wghat happened to the EU money given to Arafat´s government (though there is EU invetigation going on. For myself, I don´t like to see my tax money being spent on Mrs. Arafat´s shopping trips)
Nobody is going to check on Mr. Sharon´s shady deals.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29350 posts, RR: 62 Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 837 times:
Sorry the comparisons are inevitable. Not that I really want to be taking shots, but they are going to occur.
How much negative press did this get in the Arab media compared to say, if the IDF shot 5 people.
Why is it that this incident can be handled internally by the LDF, but when the USA is accused of stripping prisoners naked in Iraq, without deaths, Everybody complains that the US is prosecuting their own troops not the UN?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
OD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1917 posts, RR: 37 Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 824 times:
You're right Tbar220, this shouldn't turn into another Arab-Israel thread, there are enough already both in the non-av and Civil av forums.
As you say, some soldiers were wounded before they started firing live bullets but none of the wounds seem to have been life threatening.
They could have used tear gas instead or rubber bullets. Tear gas is the most widely used by the Lebanese police during demonstrations.
This brings up another question, why was the Army deployed in that region instead of the police in the first place?
Anyhow, we read this morning that an investigation is under way.
20 litres costs 23,000 LP today which comes to $.77 per litre for the 98 octane.
Cedarwings From Lebanon, joined Apr 2004, 216 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 800 times:
Why is it when the IDF does it, it's called a slaughter, or a holocaust, or a crime against humanity, but when an Arab army does it to Arabs, it's an "accident." ACCIDENT?
According to the Webster:
Accident = an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance.
In Lebanon, this accident happened once, and all the Lebanese worldwide have condemned it, in addition, the soldiers responsible of this act are already in custody.
In Israel, this type of accidents are planned operations, they happen everyday, and sometimes they last few days and even weeks.
Soldiers who perform such killings are considered heros and sometimes they become prime ministers.
The Israeli people never condemns the IDF acts of killing innocent Palestinians.
For all these reasons, yes, the Israeli acts are considered "slaughter, or a holocaust, or a crime against humanity".
I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth
Galaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 27 Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 792 times:
It is a sad day for Lebanon.
I ask everybody on this forum not to take advantage of this tragic event to show disrespect to my country.
Accidents and tragedies do happen everywhere, and there is for sure a better way to express your feelings other than this way.
It is wrong to shoot at protesters. Even if it's the Lebanese army, we the Lebanese blame it and hope that those responsible will be punished.
I hope that the next issue that comes out of Iraq,Israel or numerous other places around the world, That those of you that immediately go into a fervor and orgiastic display of USA bashing feel the same if it occurs.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
25 Alessandro: In my words accident is something that happens not on purpose, shooting is seldom accidently, shooting 5 people to death seem not like an accident. Ho
26 Jutes85: Accident = an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance. In Lebanon, this accident happened once, and all the Lebanese worldwide have condemned i
27 QR332: L-188, About the Arab media. When you start watching it you can comment on it, the Arab media reported this horrible event as much as it would with an
28 MD11Engineer: QR, Cedarwings, What is therole of the Lebanese military in internal affairs? In my country e.g. the military are not permitted to be involved in inte
29 Jwenting: Why is this turning into a Israel-Palestine thread? Because everything does over here? Some terrorist sympathiser will call it an Israeli plot or what
30 Tbar220: OD720, Well I read in the news that there were riots in over half of Beirut, so I think its only appropriate to deploy the army to quell the situation
31 Goose: I remember the L.A. riots and the fear our family felt for our own safety. If somebody tried to break into our home or hurt my family, I wouldn't hesi
32 Jutes85: I wouldn't hesitate for a second to allow the police/national guard to shoot them on the spot. Yeah, I thought most Americans own firearms anyways. If
33 Alpha 1: Uhm, what about using your own initiative and firearm to protect your family....? Instead of being dependant on someone else to protect you? Maybe som
34 Jwenting: well said, the US ALLOWS people to keep firearms in their homes, it doesn't REQUIRE it. Switzerland DOES more or less require it, in that every reserv
35 BA: My oh my............how uninformed people are. People, these protesters had destroyed 3 Lebanese Army vehicles, set a government building on fire, and
36 Avi: It's the Army's job to protect the stability of the country, even if it means killing some. I have no words..................................
37 L-188: well said, the US ALLOWS people to keep firearms in their homes, it doesn't REQUIRE it. . Every citizen is a member of the militia after all, wether t
38 Go Canada!: "The Lebanese soldiers involved in shooting of these innocent people acted without orders from their superiors and they are now under interrogation an
39 Go Canada!: 2 points to make: 1)Calling Lebanon and Arabic country is incorrect, calling them arabs is wrong.The country is full of many different enthic groups.
40 BA: Go Canada! Why are you bringing Israel into this discussion? Is that all you have for an argument? Actually Lebanon is an Arabic country. Only the Arm
41 Go Canada!: I would not label all lebanese as arabs, i also think the inference by that poster was that lebanon was also islamic. Palestinian refugees have little
42 BA: I would not label all lebanese as arabs, i also think the inference by that poster was that lebanon was also islamic. You do not have to be Muslim to
43 Rjpieces: It's the Army's job to protect the stability of the country, even if it means killing some. I should save this, BA, for the next time you denounce th
44 Goose: Alpha 1 wrote; Maybe some of us just don't believe in owning the wretched things, is that a problem? Not at all. It is the land of choice, after all -
45 OD720: This is the latest I have about the incident. No police force was deployed in that region since there were not supposed to be any demonstrations there
46 OD720: Rjpieces, The Palestenians can not be integrated into the Lebanese society because Lebanese Christians will never accept it. For them, this will mean
47 Krushny: Thanks, OD720. So Palestinians are not integrated in Lebanon because of the Christians, if I understand it because of their own interests; screwing Is
48 Tubbyboeing: Uhm, what about using your own initiative and firearm to protect your family....? Instead of being dependant on someone else to protect you? Amen to t
49 Alessandro: OD720, as we both know the SLA (mainly christian) left the security zone in South Lebanon, many of them got asylume in Israel,. I think it´s more the
50 OD720: Alessandro, A few hundred of the SLA militia crossed to Israel and most of those returned back. I would estimate that there are about 1.5 million Chri
51 Go Canada!: "You do not have to be Muslim to be Arab nor do you have to be Arab to be Muslim. Lebanon is 60% Muslim and 40% Christian. ." That was the point I was
52 BA: OD720, as we both know the SLA (mainly christian) left the security zone in South Lebanon, many of them got asylume in Israel,. I think it´s more the
53 QR332: Well, Go Canada, the worlds greatest historian has spoken. He is now telling us lebanon is not Arab. Not only that, but it is also ravaged by war. You
54 BA: To Go Canada! and everyone else who thinks Lebanon is a war ravaged country on the verge of collapse, please visit this page: http://skyscraperpage.co
55 Rjpieces: BA, I love how in the same sentence you say how it's ok for the Christians in Lebanon not to want the Palestinians, but they are the Jews responsbilit
56 BA: Rjpieces, Palestinians don't have a country, it is currently under occupation by Israel. Tell me Rjpieces, why on earth should the Lebanese give the P
57 QR332: BA, I love how in the same sentence you say how it's ok for the Christians in Lebanon not to want the Palestinians, but they are the Jews responsbilit