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Rumor About Bring Back The US Draft- True?  
User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5482 posts, RR: 15
Posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1598 times:

I was at Borders the other day and I bought Bowling for Columbine, Michael Moore's documentary. Long story short, the check out guy talks about Moore's new movie and how Bush is supposedly discreetly trying to bring back the draft.

I know that this guy probably isn't the most credible source of news, but I can't believe that someone would make that up. Politics aside, does anybody know how true/false this is?

Thanks,
blink




Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1573 times:

No it isn't true. President Bush and Sec. of Def. Rumsfeld have both said a draft is not wanted nor needed. In fact, every branch of the military has already met or exceeded its recruitment goals for FY04.

The only people who have seriously been pushing for the draft have been Democrat members of Congress.



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1569 times:

Blow him off, if he works for Borders he is probably a granola cruncher anyway.

What did happen is that Henry Waxman, a most despised US representative from New York, and a race baiter proposed legislation that would bring back the draft. He claimed that it would be a form of social justice because right now only the poorest Americans bear the burdens of war.

The DOD doesn't like the bill, the White House doesn't like it, and I believe that Waxmans more sane colleges also put it in committee to die.

But to die hard left wingers, they can't perceive that Waxman is a democrat and that the White House and GW are behind it. The liberal media of course does nothing to dispel that myth.

Such a bill being passed would be political death wise so don't expect a draft anytime soon.


Edit:Not to be partisan, but I forgot to point out that Waxman is a democrat. But you probably could have seen that from his motives for introducing the legislation.

[Edited 2004-05-28 05:35:10]


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1565 times:

The only people who have seriously been pushing for the draft have been Democrat members of Congress

You're forgetting to add that Republicans have also pushed for it, it's so far 50/50 - don't swing the blame buddy, your hero is already slinging enough.



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1562 times:

Would you care to name some Vafi88, because the only one I know of is Waxman, everybody else ran from this legislation like little girls.

Like I said, I thought they buried it in commitee to die.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1556 times:

"What did happen is that Henry Waxman, a most dispictable US representative from New York,"

LOL.

Darling.

That's "DESPICABLE."
And Henry Waxman is from California.
See, you really need to check up on your spelling. And your politics.

And the next time you go to the pharmacy to buy some medicine, thank Rep. Waxman because he is Hatch of the Hatch-Waxman Act of 1984 - that unique piece of legislation that singlehandedly created the generic drug industry and lower prices for medicines. For example, Ibuprofen. Helps in relieving headaches created by stupid conservative know nothings.

And since we're on that topic of know nothings, I think you were thinking of Charles Rangel.

See, now you know something.


User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

Well if the Border's cashier knew about then the Bush administration's "discreetness" blows.

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

Btw, Charles Rangel actually SERVED in the military. In a real, nasty, ugly war.

As opposed to a certain daddy's boy who lolly gagged in Alabama smoking dope.


User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1546 times:

http://russoforpresident.com/batm/index.php/2004/04/26/p198

"...His campaign against the resumption of a military draft came about because several Democrat members of Congress have called for a draft since the current Iraq war started. They were joined April 20 by Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, who told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that the idea of a strictly volunteer military should be discarded..."


BTW - Who the hell is this guy??? He's most likely only going to get like 4 votes...




I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

LOL.

Your right, Rangel is the one from New York,

My bad.

Oh, well everything I said still applies.


Oh BTW Jaysit.

I spent about 5 minutes running various spellings of that word, through the spellchecker. Never did get the right one  Sad



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

Only one Republican has suggested bringing back the draft and that is Chuck Hagel (RINO)-Neb.

The two bills to bring back the draft were introduced by Rep. Charles Rangel D-NY and Senator Ernest "Fritzout" Hollings D-SC.

Rangel's co-sponsers are "Baghdad" Jim McDermott (D-WA), (who will not say "Under God" when reciting the Pledge of Allegence) Neil Abercrombie (D-HI), John Lewis (D-GA) and Pete Stark (D-CA), Corrine Brown (D-FL), Clay Lacy (D-MO), John Conyers (D-MI), Elihag Cumming (D-MD), Alcee Hasting (D-FL) [who was impeaced and removed as a federal judge], Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX), John Lewis (D-GA), James Moran (D-VA), Nydia Velazquez, (D-NY) and the represenatives from the Virgin Islands and Washington D.C.


You may find the text of the bills at http://thomas.loc.gov by searching for bill number S.89 for the Hollings bill or H.R.163 for Rangel's.



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1534 times:

Thanks B757300.

I don't think that anybody is going to claim that thomas.loc.gov is Foxnews by any means.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Oh no!

(who will not say "Under God" when reciting the Pledge of Allegence)

OMG - Arrest him for following the constitution... I don't care if you're for it, or against it, EVERYONE has opinions, B753 - you have to understand the fact that an opinion can never be wrong... We disagree, yes, but never wrong.

Oh, just because he won't say it, means he's less of an American, or maybe we should arrest him for terrorist activities, or pro-constitutional activities...

Gimme a break.



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

Goodness, this must be the umpteenth thread on the topic.


NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1519 times:

Where in the consitution does it say there is no god?

Frankly I say, "under Crom" who is the god of Steel.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1520 times:

Just think how quiet it would be in this forum with all the little whine-bags off marching around in the sand with their 80 pound packs, or swabbing mile after mile of deck on a little gray ship, wishing they were back home leeching off mom and dad....working "so hard" at the grocery store, and pretending to know all there is to know in their little world...... LOL...

It'll never happen, too expensive for little meaningful gain in readiness.


User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

In some ways, I'm ok with the draft like the one during the very early stages of Vietnam...

Those who go to college get to avoid it, and those who don't, get to serve a year or 2, what bad does it do???



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21795 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

If they do that, Vafi, then it's counterproductive, since what these people want to do is make it so that everybody, rich or poor, has to serve. Making college students exempt would be giving a huge advantage to the rich, who can pay for college.

In principle, it's a very noble cause: striking a blow at the gap between rich and poor. But to do it with a draft is just stupid.



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1508 times:

Well I wish the army would make the standard 1st time enlistment 2 years instead of the current 4, but that really is a subject for another thread.

About the only point that the boosters of the draft have going for them is that it might instill some discipline in this country that it currently lacks. Remember a lot of people think this country was better off in 1973 then it is today. Maybe the discipline the military gave young men had something to do with that?

But that is purely suggestive.

But what is going against is that you loose a professional army. You invite more scrutiny and protest against operations because the people who are in the military didn't volunteer for it. This is also part of the reasoning behind Rangels bill. He wants to clip the foreign policy wings of the White House. Could Afghanistan or Iraq have been possible with draftees instead of volunteers? Either would have been more controversial.

Frankly I think that motive is very dangerous, because it will tie the hands of the administration to conduct foreign policy.






OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but rather ask what you can do for your country" - John F. Kennedy


I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1496 times:

"The best defense is a good offense" Mel, the cook from the sitcom "Alice"


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13239 posts, RR: 77
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 1460 times:

Political reality, opposition from much of the military, would seem to go against a draft.

However, look how the world has changed this part 30 odd months, you cannot totally rule it out if things really went tits up, not in Iraq probably, if that really looks like threatening Bush all the rhetoric about 'staying the course', 'freedom' etc will count for little.

Unlike say the UK, (who ended conscription over 40 years ago), the US could move to do it without too many changes of law, or really massive outlay in equipment and facilities.
A lot of places and material out of mothballs, but presumably it would be done in stages.

As for the professional argument, which has merit, well some of the National Guard have not covered themselves in glory in Iraq, and not just in Abu-Garib.
If increased use of reserves and worse, contractors, carries on, some questions are going to be asked.

The JeffM's of this world might enjoy seeing those who they consider 'spoiled kids' go through training, but a much less edifying sight would be the much more privileged using connections and influence to avoid it, or get an easy, safe posting.
After all, take a look at much of the current political leadership, those that were of a suitable age last time around.
Funnily enough, they are the real Ultra Hawks, not like Powell and his deputy.
In fact, avoiding combat seems to be a strong neo-con trait.


User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 1455 times:

If increased use of reserves and worse, contractors, carries on, some questions are going to be asked.

What's so bad about contractors?

Despite the dubious label of "mercenary" , the few guys I know who are employees of private military companies are actually nice fellows, and exceptional professionals in their field.

Most of them have known nothing else but military life; they've been giving years and years of specialized training by their respective nations' armies and enjoy their work. Most of them have since been retired, honourably discharged at the end of their term of service, and so on. They can't see any other job which suits their skills and training.



"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13239 posts, RR: 77
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 1443 times:

They are not accountable, nor vetted enough.
Those unfortunates who got killed and dismembered in Falluja? Well another contractor interviewed was not surprised, as the smart security guys keep a low profile, not drive around with guns pointed out of the windows of a SUV seemingly unaware of the area they were heading into.


User currently onlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4521 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 22 hours ago) and read 1434 times:

Yes, it's true, read the following:


There is pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89
and HR 163) which will time the program's initiation so the draft can
begin at early as Spring 2005 -- just after the 2004 presidential
election. The administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed
now, while the public's attention is on the elections, so our action on
this is needed immediately. Details and links follow.

Even those voters who currently support U.S. Actions abroad may still
object to this move, knowing their own children or grandchildren will not
have a say about whether to fight. Not that it should make a difference,
but this plan, among other things, eliminates higher education as a
shelter and includes women in the draft -- Also, crossing into Canada has
already been made very difficult.

Actions, actions, actions: Please send this on to all the parents and
teachers you know, and all the aunts and uncles, grandparents,
godparents.... And let your children know it's their future, and they can
be a powerful voice for change!

Please also write to your representatives to ask them why they aren't
telling their constituents about these bills -- and write to newspapers
and other media outlets to ask them why they're not covering this
important story.

The draft $28 million has been added to the 2004 selective service system

(sss) budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as
June 15, 2005. Selective Service must report to Bush on March 31, 2005
that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for
activation. Please see website: www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html to view
the sss annual performance plan - fiscal year 2004.

The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft
board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide. Though this is
an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential
members of congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a
"long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war
on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to
draft.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5146.htm <
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5146.htm>
www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and HR 163 forward this year, <
http://www.hslda.org/legislation/national/...default.asp>
http://www.hslda.org/legislation/national/...s89/default.asp entitled
the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common
defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United
States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period
of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland
security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in
the Committee on Armed Services.

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era.
College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the
U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep
would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign
affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the
declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other
things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each
country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender
and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter.
Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of
their current semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic
year.

---------------------------------------

I am absolutely opposed to the draft and shame on anyone who wants to bring it back. I have no use for Rangel for supporting it. We should get out of Iraq before we ever re-instate the draft.

That's my life you're playing with, all you folks that are supporting this. You're asking for kids to be drafted into the military, against their own will, and die in a war that they don't believe in. For what purpose?

Hell no, I won't go. And you'll hear me screaming that out on the steps of the capitol if this happens. I am NOT going to let myself get killed, I'd rather be thrown in jail than die. Dont you dare start playing with my life, all of you guys who won't get sent over there and have to deal with it personally. Do you think I and others like me would want to get sent over to the middle east and die, when we don't even support the war?

This is my life, I don't intend to lose it. We wouldn't NEED a draft if that jackass Bush hadn't gotten us into this war in the first place.


25 Goose : They are not accountable, nor vetted enough. Those unfortunates who got killed and dismembered in Falluja? Well another contractor interviewed was not
26 Goingboeing : The draft most certainly will be back. We're in Iraq for the long term, regardless of who is president. We don't have a bunch of high school or colleg
27 Jamesag96 : Somehow seeing Aloha's post soon after a quote by JFK makes me sick. Pathetic.
28 Aloha717200 : What's pathetic is dying in a war that does nothing to protect out country, James. If America were being attacked, this would be a different story. Bu
29 Goingboeing : How about you go down to the recruiter and sign up for the war, if you believe in it so much. Excellent question for any of the "hawklets" on this boa
30 JeffM : Don't worry Aloha, they won't take pansies....
31 Goose : "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth
32 JAL777 : How about you go down to the recruiter and sign up for the war, if you believe in it so much. Excellent question for any of the "hawklets" on this boa
33 Post contains links Srbmod : http://russoforpresident.com/batm/index.php/2004/04/26/p198 "...His campaign against the resumption of a military draft came about because several Dem
34 Post contains images Goose : I'll bite. I was at the recruitment office yesterday and today... my chances of actually being accepted into officer training school are 50/50. An off
35 Post contains images L-188 : JAL777 the butterbar Any idea of what branch? Take a piece of advice from a former signal man. Never get caught out on the field without your can of s
36 JAL777 : Let me rephrase that... My chances of actually being accepted in the United States Air Force Officer Training School for the sole purpose of PILOT are
37 Post contains images Goose : My chances of actually being accepted in the United States Air Force Officer Training School for the sole purpose of PILOT are 50/50. They'll basicall
38 L-188 : Just remember, it is a hard job to be an NCO. If it wasn't they would have given it to officers.
39 Post contains images JAL777 : All officers leave OTS as Lieutenants. I just find it funny that I offered the recruiter a BS in International Economics, a BS in Mathematics with a m
40 Post contains images L-188 : Unless you are in the Navy, Ensign. You got told maybe because, lets face it. Everybody wants to be a pilot. Why don't you try the Army. They have air
41 Post contains images JAL777 : I know everyone wants to be a pilot. But I'm not intersted in fighters... I'm more of tanker/transport kind of guy. Or reconnaisance. And... I happen
42 L-188 : The US hasn't fielded a real recon aircraft since the marines retired the F-4B. My apologies to the U-2 sect.
43 Post contains images JAL777 : One can always dream. Or maybe there's stuff out there you just don't know about.
44 L-188 : Well, the OV-1's are gone. The F-4's are gone The RF-101's are gone The RF-8's are gone I don't belive any of the proposed RF-18's where ever fielded
45 Post contains images JeffM : The Navy still has the F14 w/TARPS. Just as good. And let's not forget the RA-5
46 L-188 : Yeah, but pods aren't the same as dedicated aircraft either.
47 JeffM : True, to some degree, but aircraft that can perform more then one role well, seem to be the future as missions change. Taxpayers don't want to buy som
48 Aloha717200 : "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth
49 Jamesag96 : Still pathetic.... Terrorists don't need any more reasons to do anything against those that they despise...be it the Americans, Brits, French, Spanish
50 Aloha717200 : I've made my point. If you still find it pathetic, then there is nothing more I can say to show you why I believe that this is a war not worth dying f
51 Post contains links GDB : More on the Draft story; http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1228178,00.html
52 TriJetFan1 : This isnt true....... The extreme left just puts it out there into scaring the uninformed into thinking that Bush is going crazy....Basically to get v
53 L-188 : Well the liberal media also forgets to mention that bill is a baby of the democrats, not the republicans.
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