JeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 53 Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1671 times:
Personally I doubt any of the numbers on that page are credible.
I find the cost just as high as the rest of you, but I don't want the money spent on welfare, and unemployment checks either. I would prefer some of the money be left in our pockets in the form of less tax, and the rest in correcting many of the corrupted social programs that have been draining our economy for so long. Take your pick..
A flat tax could be designed to fill the coffers sufficiently to handle social programs and issues.
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12595 posts, RR: 64 Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1648 times:
Like all that money we piss away on military retirement .... What a waste.
A waste? Hardly, when you consider it's one of the reasons our Armed Forces are comprised of volunteers who actually want to be there!
The phrase "you get what you pay for" comes to mind - I certainly don't want to see the U.S. Armed Forces be made up primarily of those who had no choice in the matter! You get better people when they want serve, and paying retirement benefits help entice many into military service.
I'd never begrudge any member of the military their pension, nor should any American.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Continental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5476 posts, RR: 20 Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1644 times:
Ah crap, not again! Jeff thinks EVERYTHING is wrong and not credible! What else!??!
WellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1639 times:
But the war will get Bush a lot more dough from the oil companies once he's voted out. Certainly that's much more noble than helping children. He ain't getting shit from Head Start.
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 20901 posts, RR: 55 Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1626 times:
L-188: There is no proof any of those allegations are true Klaus.
There are numerous cases of corpses of former prison inmates very obviously heavily beaten and grossly abused as evidenced by heavy bruises all over the bodies.
The US death certificate disingenously states "natural causes" as cause of death.
"Fortunately", the occupation authorities forbid any further post-mortem examination after a US military death certificate has been issued.
Why is that?
L-188: More likely it is overreported BS by the Arab media.
There are many photographs of the bodies, made by western journalists as well and shown on TV. Together with the US death certificates that are blatantly false.
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12595 posts, RR: 64 Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1624 times:
How many people tortured to death is a botched liberation worth?
Botched liberation? I can't recall ANY liberation that occurred without bloodshed. Freedom isn't free, y'know.
There is no proof that U.S. forces tortured anyone to death - and if that DID occur, those directly responsible will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
But to answer your question, even if the number were just one less than the number of people who would otherwise have been tortured to death by Saddam's henchmen, then I'd argue it's probably worth it (meaning X deaths are worse than X deaths minus 1).
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 20901 posts, RR: 55 Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1619 times:
EA CO AS: Botched liberation? I can't recall ANY liberation that occurred without bloodshed. Freedom isn't free, y'know.
Weak excuse for a long chain of blunders that have cost thousands their lives already, with no end in sight and terrorist recruiting skyrocketing.
EA CO AS: There is no proof that U.S. forces tortured anyone to death - and if that DID occur, those directly responsible will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Would be nice; Experience doesn´t necessarily support that, though. There´s a strong tendency to sweep it under the rug; We can only hope that the will to get to the bottom of this comes through, this time.
EA CO AS: But to answer your question, even if the number were just one less than the number of people who would otherwise have been tortured to death by Saddam's henchmen, then I'd argue it's probably worth it (meaning X deaths are worse than X deaths minus 1).
According to that, repeating the Holocaust in the other direction would have been justified - as long as the allies would have stopped the furnaces in the death camps just one prisoner short of matching Hitler´s death toll?
Sorry, but with moral standards like that you can just pack up, go home and close the door in silent shame.
Airplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1611 times:
love it how people can put a price on the freedom of the Iraqi people and claim it isn't worth the expense.
Do you really contend that the average American gives a rat's ass about the freedom of the Iraqi people? Do you guys continue to pretend that GWB launced the invasion of Iraq to liberate the Iraqis?
Well...even if you are living in such a dream world, guess what? Iraqis aren't liberated, they're not better off in fact many are dead, the US has created untold new martyrs and enemies and the end is not anywhere in sight. Bush has drained the surplus, is eating into the rainy day money and will go into the hole soon.
The Iraq war money counter is a wake up call. It is a dramatic (some would say sensational) way to illustrate just how much this whole fiasco is costing. I'm just happy my government didn't get sucked in to that money pit...
Of course our economies are tied so closely together that some of the shyte is splattering us here in Canada. So believe it or not we are all concerned none the less.
Goose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 17 Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1611 times:
There is no proof any of those allegations are true Klaus.
More likely it is overreported BS by the Arab media.
The most interesting thing about all the media coverage about Abu Ghraib is that the outlets all showed mock "shock" about the pictures coming out, and these "previously covered up" abuses coming to light -- when in fact they (or anyone worth their salt) most likely knew about it for some time before.
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 20901 posts, RR: 55 Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1608 times:
The US government has asked several media to hold back on the story to "protect US servicemen" and to "conduct their investigation". And for several weeks, the media apparently obliged. The original abuse reports by the red cross, for instance, reach back a full year, however. So the government sat around doing nothing about it for many months, apparently.
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1605 times:
I love it how people can put a price on the freedom of the Iraqi people and claim it isn't worth the expense.
I love it how some gullible souls, like you, L-188, think that unending billions, and 800 American lives are worth the expense towards getting George W. Bush re-elected.
That's what this whole freaking idiocy was about-and nothing else. Congratulations on trading American soldiers for a White House. And you say you honor American servicemen and women. What a joke.
President George W. Bush requested the extra funding to cover the cost of military operations, which have spiraled upward as US troops combat insurgencies in both countries.
Continental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5476 posts, RR: 20 Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1599 times:
Nicely said Alpha 1. I have to agree with Klaus here, even though we are intervening in Iraq to stop terrorism, it seems to be creating more terrorists. They are doing it as a result of the US being there. I could see many who lost their families because of the US turning into terrorists. And now having to fuel this war with more of our money which will in the end spawn more terrorists is just strange. Perhaps they should rethink...
Jutes85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1594 times:
Man, that number is amazing.
The US should have invested $115 Billion to research in alternative fuel resources. They would have found it by now, and no one would give a shit about the middle-east, WMD or not.
Dc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1585 times:
Alpha 1 , High gas prices is exactly what Dubya wants .... West Texas crude is at record high prices now ... Do you really think we would have invaded Iraq if they didn't have oil ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1583 times:
Alpha 1 , High gas prices is exactly what Dubya wants .... West Texas crude is at record high prices now ... Do you really think we would have invaded Iraq if they didn't have oil ???
You don't know much about supply and demand, especially in an election year.
And answer to the second sentence, yes I do, because Bush was bent on revenge, and a trophy to use towards re-election.
25 Dc10guy: You may be right.... But the Texas oil connection is too close IMHO ..
26 Hamfist: Just did a search and didn't find any posts complaining about the $2-5 billion a year we were spending during Slick Willie's term to maintain the Nort
27 Globalexpress: As George W. Bush asks Congress for billions more to fund the occupation, your welfare systems are crying out for investment. Oh but its the war on TE
28 JeffM: Welfare is not an investment. That is just plain rediculous. More like cancer. Think about it... Welfare fuels poverty.
30 KYIPpilot: EA CO AS A waste? Hardly, when you consider it's one of the reasons our Armed Forces are comprised of volunteers who actually want to be there! Volunt
31 Flying-Tiger: @ Jeff: Nice to see that you´re not able to accept ANY other opinion. I can only feel sorry for you... just open a door and look outside, there is an
32 OO-AOG: I love it how people can put a price on the freedom of the Iraqi people and claim it isn't worth the expense Bush and his friends are humanists, every
33 Cedarjet: Jeff M, your heart is cold indeed. In defence of the attack on Iraq, "I don't want the money spent on welfare, and unemployment checks." In other word
34 Globalexpress: Apparently so. But they're democrats, so it doesn't matter.
35 L-188: Handouts don't help. Isn't there something about teaching to fish, rather then giving a fish in the bible. but enough about the US welfare system.
36 Globalexpress: Who gives a shit about the Bible? Ok then, invest in education and teach them to fish in the LA River
37 L-188: They have a river in L.A. I thought that was a joke.
38 Globalexpress: It was. They have sewers. Anyway, seriously, the money used in Iraq could be used for far more sensible things. I'm using LA as an example, with its e
39 L-188: Hell, I avoid California anyway. Way too much socialism in that part of the world. A lot of the problem is the illegals comming over and burning up th
40 Globalexpress: Cool, it would be cheaper anyway now wouldn't it? Before we get into a discussion about immigration its not just California that could do with a bit m
41 L-188: No not ethnicty, Globalexpress. But being illegals they are by definition cut out of all the lowest paying wages, no bennies and I don't doubt often,
42 Cedarjet: Aaaah gawd, the idea of California being socialist is really, really funny. The state that had Reagan as governor, now with Arnie as the governator. W
44 Globalexpress: I disagree that California is socialist in the manner you describe. You describe a one-way socialist state. I don't think the governor of California c
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