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Outsourcing Cost 4,633 US Jobs In 1Q 2004  
User currently offlineB2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1369 posts, RR: 59
Posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

Interesting news release from the Bureau of Labor Statistics today. It sounds like the impact of outsourcing on the US labor market has been exaggerated, although the report doesn't address how many jobs were not created in the first place in the US due to outsourcing, which is probably impossible to count.

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/news.release/reloc.txt

Of the 239,361 private sector nonfarm workers who were separated from their jobs for at least 31 days in the first quarter of 2004, the separations of 4,633 workers were associated with the movement of work outside of the country, according to preliminary data. Domestic relocation of work--both within the company and to other companies--affected 9,985 workers. (See table A.)


----------------------------------------------------------------------
| |
Action | Layoff events | Separations [Job Losses]
| |
------------------------------------|---------------|-----------------
| |
Total, private nonfarm sector.......| 1,204 | 239,361
| |
Total, excluding seasonal and | |
vacation events 1/..............| 869 | 182,456
| |
Total with movement of work 2/..| 119 | 16,021
| |
Overseas relocations..........| 34 | 4,633
Within company..............| 21 | 2,976
Different company...........| 13 | 1,657
| |
Domestic relocations..........| 79 | 9,985
Within company..............| 65 | 8,191
Different company...........| 14 | 1,794
---------------------------------------------------------------------

--B2707SST


Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 40
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1597 times:

Of course, what the economic geniuses on the left and the media always fail to mention is that America does about 30% more INSOURCING than outsourcing.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1594 times:

Tchah ! Those pesky Injuns...

User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1586 times:

I don't care about your numbers...Bush has lost 4 million jobs on his watch...or is it three million? The economy has added over 1.4 million since last Sept. you say? Hmmm...don't care he has still outsourced millions of jobs...

Signed,
The Ignorant

Oh...and all of these so called "jobs" only pay between 10-20 an hour and are for burger flippers and warehouse workers...rabble, rabble, rabble.

Signed,
The Stupid



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29706 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

Bush has lost 4 million jobs on his watch...or is it three million

Sounds like John Kerry is telling a fishing story. How much bigger is it going to get?



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

I am sure Kerry couldn't catch a fish, and it would be Bush's fault...that or the f'ing Secret Service scared em all away.




Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2675 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1520 times:
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What's always absent in these mindless attacks on outsourcing is the fact that US prosperity is inextricably tied to its ability to export goods and services to other nations. When China and India are prosperous, and their citizens' standard of living is rising, they'll want more and more stuff -- because they can afford it. That is already happening.

If America tries to beggar that growth by throwing cold water on China and India (and everyone else) through protective tariffs, or restrictions on outsourcing, it will hasten its own economic decline.

Face reality. China with its billion plus people is the economic power of the future. India is close behind, and so are other Asian nations. No small nation of 300 million, like the US, is going to stop that. And there's no reason to stop it. Enjoy the global prosperity it will foster.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1515 times:

>>>Face reality. China with its billion plus people is the economic power of the future. India is close behind, and so are other Asian nations. No small nation of 300 million, like the US, is going to stop that. And there's no reason to stop it. Enjoy the global prosperity it will foster.<<<

The US population has always been "small compared to India and China. No big news here. Global prosperity is an upsidedown pyramid with US consumption (read, middle class) supporting most of it. Case in point; trade deficits. We buy much more of the worlds good than they buy of ours. Of course to do this you need a strong middle class. By American corporate greed outsourcing American jobs to the lowest bidder and then to sell these goods back in the US is unhealthy for our economy. Don't giver me the bullshit about free trade. There is no free trade. We need a managed trade policy like the rest of the world and like we used to have.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1512 times:
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Who was the signer of NAFTA? Who as President when the recession from which we just emerged began? Was it Bush? Reagan? Somebody remind me....the dems seem to need a scapegoat for the problems they say our economy has. I really want to help them further identify problems and scapegoats....now when I want a solution I will contact somebody else, because I have yet to see a solution being offered by the dems for any of these problems that they say are being unattended.


Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineB2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1369 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1495 times:

Just to put the numbers I posted into context, the BLS states that during 1Q 2004, there were 12.175 million job separations and 12.812 million hires.

Hires: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.t02.htm
Separations: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.t03.htm

Thus, the 4,633 job separations attributed to outsouring account for 0.05%, or one twenty-fifth of one percent, of all job separations during that period.

--B2707SST



Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3219 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1487 times:

Well, I hear there are about 4,633 job applications going unfilled in the Detroit area because nobody wants to 'degrade' to $16-22+/hr plus benies plus holidays plus a couple weeks of vacation plus a couple weeks of sick pay plus time off for seeing your kid being born plus time off for a flat tire plus getting a three-hour lunch and then being too lazy to call your boss plus the friggin' dog's got a toothache plus fishin's good and it's a nice day plus it's first day of deer season plus it's opening day for the Tigers plus we're in the playoffs plus my friggin' car is broke (ooops, I built that car on my last job).

I stopped by a saloon for a quickie on the way back from Home Depot today to hear the barmaid bitching she wasn't making any tips and couldn't afford gas. By my second beer she was putting a $5 in the damn jukebox to hear shit she could hear for free on the in-house stereo and was still pissing and moaning. And she ain't even a blonde!

Damn, I'm glad I'm retired. Regards..Jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6659 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1484 times:

By American corporate greed outsourcing American jobs to the lowest bidder and then to sell these goods back in the US is unhealthy for our economy


In 2003,the US 'insourced $131bn worth of services and 'outsourced' $77bn.All for protection then,FDXmech?


User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2675 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1477 times:
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"Global prosperity is an upsidedown pyramid with US consumption (read, middle class) supporting most of it."

Yes -- and with US consumption per capita of every natural resource on the planet, from oil to zinc, leading the charge. That's what "supports" the American middle class.

The reason I have no use for all this whining about outsourcing is that the average standard of living in the US (and Canada, and other developed countries) so far outstrips the rest of the world that it should embarass the hell out of us. Yet we bitch because employees in India, prepared to work twice as hard for half the pay, are taking a relative handful of "American" jobs away. You want to throw up the tariff walls, load on the trade restrictions, and smite Asian prosperity? Go ahead -- that approach worked really well in the 1930s.




Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1471 times:

>>>Yes -- and with US consumption per capita of every natural resource on the planet, from oil to zinc, leading the charge. That's what "supports" the American middle class.<<<

I don't get your point.

>>>The reason I have no use for all this whining about outsourcing is that the average standard of living in the US (and Canada, and other developed countries) so far outstrips the rest of the world that it should embarass the hell out of us.<<<

That's your problem. If you don't want to lead a decent life, then don't. If you want to live life like a third world citizen - go ahead.

>>>Yet we bitch because employees in India, prepared to work twice as hard for half the pay, are taking a relative handful of "American" jobs away.<<<

Then why don't you volunteer for a pay cut and work twice as hard? Maybe they'll outsource financial journlist jobs too.

>>>You want to throw up the tariff walls, load on the trade restrictions, and smite Asian prosperity? Go ahead -- that approach worked really well in the 1930s.<<<

Don't make me laugh with your tarrif & protectionest baloney. With our trade deficit compared to almost any other country - you've got some set.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1468 times:
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Arrow....do I detect the vaguest hint of a threat? Are you insinuating that we could have averted the second world war if we had only given the Japanese everything they wanted (which we pretty much did) and ignored their rape of CHina? Or is there another set of circumstences to which you are referring?

Globalization is happening and there is nothing that can or even should be done. All the posts I see about how the 1.4 million jobs created recently are "low paying McJobs" really reinforce this. Immigrants have always come to this country willing to do whatever it took to get ahead. As soon as they get ahead their children get picky and refuse to do the same work as being beneath them. Well, somebody has to do the work, and if people are willing to do the same work as others for less, more power to them. The extra profits generated will be spent on something here and create more opportunity. You just have to be willing to grab the opportunity.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2675 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1459 times:
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"Are you insinuating that we could have averted the second world war if we had only given the Japanese everything they wanted (which we pretty much did) and ignored their rape of CHina?"

Wow. No -- what I was referring to was the introduction of the infamous Smoot-Hawley Act, which imposed a wide range of sky-high tariffs on everything imported into the US. The theory was that it would spur domestic economic activity. In practice, it simply guaranteed the US recession would turn into a depression, and the rest of the world got sucked in for the ride. I hear some of the same arguments today -- watch Lou Dobbs for a while and it will make you cry. There is zero recognition that protectionist policies actually have the opposite effect to what was intended. If the US goes protectionist, the rest of the world will follow suit (led by France, I'm afraid). What's that old saying? Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Now, I guess you can argue that if they hadn't passed Smoot-Hawley, maybe events in Europe and Asia would have turned out differently. I don't think so. Japanese and German militarism and expansion plans were well under way when the depression took hold.

But ... there's no question that it was the war that yanked the US out of the depression. The reason that GATT, followed by the WTO, came into being was so that the 30s would never happen again. Unfortunately, few remember that.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1450 times:
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Sorry, dude, I am just not used to well thought out, reasoned responses to posts here. You are correct, Smoot-Hawley Act of 1930 was a terrible idea, and whether the other countries passed their versions in retaliation or for similar reasons (dems wanted the protectionism, reps wanted the isolationism and less competition) it deepened the depression.

And yes, war did yank us out of the depression.

Not enough people even know who Santayana was to avoid repeating history, dude, unless we have some leaders who won't be blinded.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3219 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1437 times:

Another thing, DI021, you stated, in paraphrase, that the "..US gave the Japanese everything they pretty much wanted..."

I would suggest you read about the embargos that the US sanctioned against Japan prior to their Pearl Harbor adventure. I am not positioning for a debate here, but there were various circumstances leading up to Japan's decision to attack the U.S. (not that it was a good idea  Smile )

I agree with you 100% that people who really want to achieve do what is neccessary (alluded to in my facitious and admittedly sophomoric reply #10). I've been in several positions where I couldn't afford to take out Sweet Sue for a good dinner in a Mercedes, but I sure as hell did what I had to do to keep the lights and heat from being turned off. Most of the folks I know "been there, done that", too. Like you, I guess I don't see the problem.
Regards...Jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1431 times:
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Jack.,..I hear you. Just for note, the US shipped the Japanese everything they wanted in terms of trade except for oil and war materiel, right up until the war. From the time of the Washington Naval Treaty where the Japanes were treated better than others, until the rape of Nanking we were trading with very few limits with them. Our scrap metal shipments to them made up for a lack of steel production capability they had and helped them boost war production in the years leading up to WW2.
When I say we gave them what they wanted I am referring to the lengths we went to in order to avoid war. I think that we have done Japan nothing but favors (outside of the war, that they started since they were not willing to leave China/Manchuria, and considered us a threat to their plans for the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere that saw them taking over DUtch and BRitish territory in order to assure themselves of oil and trade routes) and we did the same for them afterwards as well. They have the strongest democracy in Asia as well as the strongest economy, due to the will and resourcefulness of her people, and the protection by and trade with the US.




Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3219 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1423 times:

Dl021; yes, we are agreed. My previous comment (not clearly stated: my bad) was in reference to oil/steel embargo.

The Japanese have well capitalised on the opportunities that the U.S and allies introduced them to; possibly others will eventually recognise a freer market and a freer society ain't that all of a bad thing. Kind regards...Jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1410 times:
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Imagine what a nation today could do given those same opportunities? We, the United States, are the best friend any nation could have (face it, we are there for our Allies when they need us) and there are a couple right now making some very important decisions as entire nations about which direction they will go. We are going to eventually go along with their free will and leave them alone as long as they don't threaten us again, but imagine how much farther they will be along in economic terms if they are our democratic allies and friends rather than isolated and dictatorial. I know there are many on this forum and elsewhere that say we should not impose our brand of democracy on the world...but I sometimes feel that is like saying we should not issue smallpox vaccinations to countries that can't make them. Our form of democracy was usable two hundred years ago as well as today.


Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2675 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1401 times:
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"I know there are many on this forum and elsewhere that say we should not impose our brand of democracy on the world...but I sometimes feel that is like saying we should not issue smallpox vaccinations to countries that can't make them. Our form of democracy was usable two hundred years ago as well as today."

Yes -- but you need to recognize that yours isn't the only form of democracy on the planet -- and maybe it isn't even the best. The right to self-determination includes the right to decide what form of democratic government works best. It's fine to export the principle through moral persuasion, but don't impose a system that was designed for a completely different nation under completely different circumstances. Democratic principles will take root and grow much more quickly if they are germinated by the people in the country -- not transplanted from somewhere else.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2963 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1397 times:

Wow!
50 jobs per day, the end of the world...NOT.




Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1398 times:
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I understand, and even agree to a point...but the problem is not will they have a parliamentary/federal or bicameral/multi-party form of democracy....many of these countries are in need of a real deomcracy where power changes hands peacefully every 4 or 8 years and the lawmakers are truly answerable to the people. Say what you want, but western deomcracies are there, where people will vote you out if you let them down or vote in someone else who has a more persuasive argument.

Most of the countries that I am referring to have nothing that approximates this. It's as if they are culturally and politically 500 years behind what we call the 1st world and new world. ANy ideas how to put a lid on the medieval urges that come over peoples who are possessed of 21st century weaponry? Any idea of how to educate entire populations in better ways of expressing dissatisfaction than by lashing out with extreme violence? Any way of putting an end to the apologists of this type of behavior? I'd like to hear some answers if forcefeeding freedom is not the answer, and it obviously is a really inefficient way of spreading the good news.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2675 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1391 times:
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D1021 --

All good questions, to which there aren't any good answers. But you can't forcefeed it by imposing democratic principles on people who are having trouble feeding and housing themselves. It's no accident that democracies flourish in nations with high standards of living, and repressive dictatorships flourish in places that don't. The US is trying impose secular democracy on Iraq when the water and power systems don't work, abject poverty is prevalent, and religious fundamentalism still dominates political discourse. Fix those problems first (well, fix the waterworks/power and the poverty -- the other one is a lot tougher). People can embrace democracy if they're not starving.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
25 Dl021 : Hey, good news there...the water and power are now more reliable than pre-invasion. If only we could get those idiots to quit blowing up their own sys
26 Goose : It's no accident that democracies flourish in nations with high standards of living, and repressive dictatorships flourish in places that don't. Just
27 Dl021 : Goose, I know that India is the worlds largest functioning democracy, but their democracy is perhaps not yet ready to be exported. The fact that they
28 Goose : The countries we are discussing have no real history of any kind of democracy, or real hope of experiencing them. We have to figure out how to help cr
29 Arrow : I won't dispute that India is a big democracy -- but I would argue its the exception that proves the rule. Most democracies flourish in prosperous pla
30 Dl021 : GOose, I saw that you post was directed at Arrow, but it made me think hence the response. I was in no way denigrating India, and am wondering how the
31 Post contains images Goose : I won't dispute that India is a big democracy -- but I would argue its the exception that proves the rule. India is the world's largest democracy in t
32 Post contains links Dl021 : In order to get back to this thread, here are a couple af articles many will find very interesting. THey come from european or acceptable to the left
33 FDXmech : >>>I saw a political cartoon the other day...it showed an American from 20 yrs ago waving a US flag and a sign that said my country right or wrong...a
34 Post contains images Goose : I would like to know why you think India has succeeded in the face of competing religions and factional violence.... Well, truth be told, I was always
35 Dl021 : FDXmech I think the articles to which I posted links should show what I wanted to point out about the outsourcing issue being somewhat to highly overb
36 Goose : This is true, but there are still are serious problems, mostly caused by premature de-colonisation, but that is a different story. True, but that the
37 Dl021 : I see an opportunity whose time has gone by....unless the members put aside their resentments and jealousies to create an unequalled economic opportun
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