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Supreme Court Dismisses Pledge Case  
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1217 times:

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court at least temporarily preserved the phrase "one nation, under God," in the Pledge of Allegiance, ruling Monday that a California athiest could not challenge the patriotic oath while sidestepping the broader question of separation of church and state.

The decision leaves untouched the practice in which millions of schoolchildren around the country begin the day by reciting the pledge. The court said the atheist could not sue to ban the pledge from his daughter's school and others because he did not have legal authority to speak for her.

The father, Michael Newdow, is in a protracted custody fight with the girl's mother. He does not have sufficient custody of the child to qualify as her legal representative, eight members of the court said. Justice Antonin Scalia did not participate in the case.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=558&e=1&u=/ap/20040614/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_pledge_of_allegiance



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1199 times:

Good news. Not let's de-politisize this "story" and just leave the pledge as it is. It violates no one's right, or pursuit of happiness, or anything. Just let it go.

User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1178 times:

Well, from what I understand, the United States Supreme Court did not really judge on the core of this issue, rather on a secondary issue: the fact that the father does not have sufficient custody of the child to qualify as her legal representative.

If I was an American - and, mind you, having some time to waist - I'd keep pursuing this case as I don't think it's lost for good.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1167 times:

If I was an American - and, mind you, having some time to waist - I'd keep pursuing this case as I don't think it's lost for good.

On what grounds? On what grounds does it deny you "life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness", because someone puts the word "God" in something? Does "God" bother you that much. If it does, if you're an American, don't say the word if saying the Pledge, but don't tell ME I can't say it.


User currently offlineYanksn4 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1403 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1167 times:

Qb001, what is it that "One Nation, Under God" offends you? It dosen't say "one nation, under Jesus or Mohammed."


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User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1150 times:

what is it that "One Nation, Under God" offends you?

If, like myself, you're an atheist, that is believing that there is no such thing as a god, then I could find it offensive that the Government, through its institutions (schools), is trying to push the notion of a god down my throat.

The problem is not in the private belief of a god. The problem arises when the government wants you to believe in a god.

Hey, as I often say, if you want to live in a god driven country, why don't you go to Iran? Over there, they cut people's heads should they dare implying that there is no such thing as a god...



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

I know about girl's mother was trying to fight with the custody. It will not had any problems with her father.

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16945 posts, RR: 48
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1142 times:

I'm fairly opposed to religion but I've never understood the idea that someone is "offended" by saying the word "God" in the Pledge. Who the hell cares? I say it when I recite the pledge--I've said all kinds of stuff when my parents drag me to church. It's never meant I actually believed any of it, or that I was being persecuted because of my disbelief, or that I was being forced to acknowledge something I find contrary to my beliefs. Again, who the hell cares? Just say the damn Pledge (or not--it's perfectly within your right) and move the hell on!


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineStretch 8 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2566 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1133 times:

I was right during the oral arguments - this case would be decided on the standing issue, and it was.


Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
User currently offlineN6376m From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1115 times:

Note that 3 of the Justices in a concurring opinion did specifically address the constitutional validity of the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge.

While the concuring opinion is not law, it was clearly intended to send the message where 3 of 8 members of the court stood on this matter (Scalia recused himself from this case). I've got to assume that if a similar case makes its way back to the USSC, Scalia would vote with these 3 and make it 4 out of 9 meaning that really just one vote is the difference.

Full opinion available at http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=02-1624

For our attorney friends here, I've got a question. I understand that the father is in a custody battle with the mother. If a state court grants father some rights, is the entire suit re-established at the USSC or does he have to start over from the very beginning?


User currently offlineSolarix From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1082 times:

Anyone who is "offended" by the plege is just a wuss. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

This idiot is just wasting everyones time with this silly lawsuit. He should just shut up and go back to watching Barney and the Care Bears.


User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1070 times:

I have no problem with *one nation, under god* part... However, what I DO have a problem with, is when they made it (or tried to make it) mandatory...

I don't see the point in the pledge, I don't see why people would waste their 30 seconds to say something they don't even know... it doesn't make you more or less of an American nor does it make you a patriot...

For me, it's just a short piece of writing which, in my mind, has no effect on my pride, my patriotic sense, or me being an American...

Say it if you want to, but don't expect me to say it with you.



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1060 times:

I agree with Vafi, there's nothing wrong at all about "one nation, under God" in the pledge. It doesn't force people to actually believe in God.

I have a problem with the mandatory thing as well, I didn't like it when I was in school. I don't need a little pledge to prove my respect and patriotism to this country, because it exists whether I say the pledge or not.



-NWA742


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13804 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1058 times:

Well, I´ve seen videos of four year old kindergarten children recitating this pledge (Besides hearing stories from my daughter who is a high school student in Sacramento, CA). Those kids don´t even know what they are talking about. Having some adult swear to uphold the constitution is ok, even though I´m against the religious connection (currently the EU has a similar problem. Some Roman-Catholic countries, esp. Poland and Italy, want a statement included in the preamble of the new EU constitution, which defines the EU as based on Christian belief).
It reminds me of children during the Nazi period being sworn in on Adolf Hitler.
One should be able to understand what one is swearing an oath about.

Jan


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1057 times:

The "under God" part is the only bit of the pledge I object to, but I solve that problem personally by keeping my mouth shut for just those two words when I have to recite it...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1038 times:

I remember an amusing incident once when our children's director at church was at a loss for a moment. She turned and asked our youth minister which flag should we pledge allegiance to first, the Christian flag (which has its own pledge) or the Stars and Stripes? He said Old Glory. Until that day (which was a few years ago, not when I was a kid), I didn't know there was a Christian pledge, but there is.

User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1024 times:

What is a Christian flag ? (I didn't know there was one...)

User currently onlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1013 times:

In judical terms this is what is known as a punt.

Even the moron father, says that he will be back, to threaten the liberty of the citizens of the US again.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineFlyboy36y From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3039 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1002 times:

Even the moron father, says that he will be back, to threaten the liberty of the citizens of the US again.



How?


User currently onlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 991 times:

He is a lawyer, so he claims others with similar views as his are pounding at his door to take their cases.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
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