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Kerry's Foreign Policy Ideas  
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1079 times:

With all the talk of this guy, and all the "good" things he says he can do on the domestic scene, I'm interested to see what his ideas are for our military and homeland defense, and how he would approach the middle east situation.

Personally, (and I know this is flamebait), but I think the man doesn't have the credentials to handle this nation on the international front...he may be able to give out all the welfare, or make sure the seniors get their medicare, but do you honestly trust this guy's defense policy (if there is sucha thing?) His "service" in the Navy was a joke, especially after tossing his medals in DC- I believe that story to be true.

Just wanting some ideas...not a political war guys.

DeltaGuy

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1051 times:

Basically, in the sad even that he wins:
Kerry's going to throw himself at the feet of Annon, as he bows to the altar of the UN for each/every/all things  Insane  Yeah sure






[Edited 2004-06-29 19:24:45]

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1045 times:

Most conservatives want to believe that, but it's a bit of ignorant naivte to think Kerry, or any U.S. President, would do what CB says. I think he'll most certianly treat the rest of the world with respect, not contempt, as our current President does, and he will discuss things with friends and allies, not shove it down their throats, as Bush did in Iraq.

In a world where there is a legit war on terror, I think he'll follow the basic outlines that Bush as, but not with the arrogance, nor with the lack of diplomacy that we've seen with this Administration. I'm still convinced, that whoever is elected, will have to expand our armed forces, and will have no choice but to keep the U.S. on a increased level of alert.

But you want this to be a bash-Kerry thread, and you know you did, DeltaGuy, so you guys go ahead, and have your fun.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1051 times:

I think the man doesn't have the credentials to handle this nation on the international front... his "service" in the Navy was a joke

Not that I am a fan of Kerry's hitherto non-existant foreign policy but if you compare his credentials to those of Bush when he took the job, I think you will find that Kerry wins by a large margin thanks to his past service on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

George W. Bush's service in the Air National Guard, however honorable it might have been, also pales in comparison to Kerry's decorated service in a warzone, no matter his later actions.

There are plenty of arguments to make about why Kerry is a bad choice. However, trying to attack him over lack of qualifications on these fronts when his opponent does not compare too favorably either is not one of them.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1036 times:

but it's a bit of ignorant naivte to think Kerry, or any U.S. President, would do what CB says.

...aside from the fact that it comes straight from his own friggin' mouth, right?  Big grin



and he will discuss things with friends and allies, not shove it down their throats, as Bush did in Iraq.

...then afterwhich they still tell him to f^ck off, because their financial interests contrast with our's and/or our security, then what?

Will Kerry act against their wishes? --not a shred of current nor historical evidence to suggest he would.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1030 times:

...then afterwhich they still tell him to f^ck off, because their financial interests contrast with our's and/or our security, then what?

You mean, like Bush has done for the last three years? My friend, you just described the foreign policy of the U.S. under your hero. I do not believe Kerry will hurt U.S. standing around the world, nor our ability to fight against the real terrorists (Iraq wasn't in that group-that was a war to help Bush get re-elected), in places like Afghanistan and the ME. He will, though, listen more to our friends and their concerns. Bush doesn't even have the sense to listen-he just does what he wants, and be damned the world. That makes us neither safer, nor more respected.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1023 times:

You mean, like Bush has done for the last three years? My friend, you just described the foreign policy of the U.S. under your hero.

...and rightfully so, but you failed to answer my question.


So again: and then what?


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Kerry, in all his years in congress, has never once authored a single bill which has passed.

If that's the case, don't look to him for any (good) new ideas.

Charles


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1008 times:

The answer is, as I've said, I don't think you give Kerry enough credit. You're so up the butt of the GOP you don't think anyone has the wisdom, indeed, the right or ability to defend the U.S. Therin lies the problem: you see a problem and I don't. I think Kerry will do just fine on national security. He isn't a dummy on the subject, and he'll put people around him, say like McCain for SecDef, who'll make sure things are done right, not half-assed, as Clinton often did on foreign affairs.


User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1003 times:

Let see, while in the Senate Kerry voted to cut or eliminate all of the following weapon systems.

B-1B Lancer

B-2A Spirit

F-14D Tomcat

Phoenix Missile System

Sparrow Missile System

F-15 Eagle

F-16 Fighting Falcon

F-117 Nighthawk

AH-64 Apache Helicopter

M-1/A1 Abrams MBT

Patriot Missile System

Tomahawk Cruise Missile

MX (Peacekeeper) Intercontinental Ballistic Missile

SDI

Aegis Air-Defense Ships (Ticonderoga Cruisers and Arleigh Burke Destroyers)

Reactivation of the four Iowa class battleships

Voted to gut the CIA and reduce its funding by billions and leaving the U.S. without a functional intelligence network.

Voted against the 1991 Gulf War

In 1993, Introduced Plan To Cut Numerous Defense Programs, Including:

- Cut the number of Navy submarines and their crews

- Reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one

- Reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force

- Terminate the Navy's coastal mine-hunting ship program

- Force the retirement of no less than 60,000 members of the Armed Forces in one year.

In 2002 voted for war with Iraq but later voted against funding for the war including body armor for the troops. "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it."



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 994 times:

Why are Americans so obsessed with the Army? A strong army is necessary for the US, but I don't think that Clinton has done a bad job (and he hasn't done a bad job, besides the critics given to him by the neocons who condemn EVERY decision taken by a Democrat, whether it's a good one or not).

Personally, Kerry isn't really my idea of a President. But Bush isn't either.

Kerry will have to deal with the whole mess caused by Bush, and for some reason, I hope that Kerry is not going to winn the next election. Like Bush doesn't represent the Republican values, Kerry doesn't represent the Democratic values in my eyes.

Let Bush do another disastrous 4 years, to give the Democrats some more time to come up with a real candidate. Although I hope that the Republicans will come up with a good alternative (McCain isn't too bad apparently), so that a Democratic President isn't necessary.

@B757300: if you think that, with your continuous hatress towards everything not extreme supportive to that idiot in the White House, you will convince other people not to vote for a Democratic President, I have to dissapoint you dude. Your hatress is even laughable.

Frederic


User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 995 times:

Why are Americans so obsessed with the Army?

It is a massive employer, source of economic growth, provides educational oppurtunities for people who otherwise wouldn't have it, puts alot of people into scientific research, etc., etc.,

It's not that we're obsessed with the military... the economic and political rammifications of a strong military are massive.


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 986 times:

Speaking of the Army, Bush cant lose with Clintons Army. Less than a year after Bush taking office, the Army performed very well in Afghanistan. Two years after he took office, the Army, politics ignored, did an excellent job ousting Hussein. To be realistic, if a President pushes military expansion, it takes more than two years for the results to be seen. Congress must appropriate funding, new equipment must be built, etc. It would take at least 3-4 years for the effects to be seen. So in fact, Bush has fought and won two wars with the Army maintained by the Clinton administration, no matter how much you say he downsized it.

Back to foreign Policy:

Bush - Governor of Texas, never left the country. Doesnt know locations of many countries on a map.

Kerry - Served on the Senate Foreign Relations committee.

Foreign policy credentials: Bush 0, Kerry 1


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 985 times:

The answer is, as I've said, I don't think you give Kerry enough credit.

Credit is something earned, not "given".




You're so up the butt of the GOP you don't think anyone has the wisdom, indeed, the right or ability to defend the U.S.

Wrong again.

For one thing, I'm so disgusted by the general Republican party as of late that I'll more than likely officially register as an independent post-election.

Secondly, there's PLENTY of people I'd rather see succeed in the upcoming election over President Bush, some Democrats. Unfortunately, none of them are on the ballot; and compared to John Kerry.....???

.......I'd rather a thousand ages and Dynasties of Bushs, than a fraction of a second of Kerry in power.



I think Kerry will do just fine on national security. He isn't a dummy on the subject

no, just that his voting record's been on the wrong side of history EVERY SINGLE TIME (pertaining to the subject at hand)



who'll make sure things are done right, not half-assed, as Clinton often did on foreign affairs.

Riiiiiight, which is why Bin Laden is still loose... and Saddam was able to violate as many resolutions as he did. Real bang-up job.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 968 times:

The problem with Kerry, is that he makes statements about gaining international cooperation in Iraq, but then when somebody asks him "how" he gets that deer in headlights look on his face.

Bush has been trying to do exactly that for two years now, and looks like his is finally getting that accomplished, ref Nato police training participation agreement in Istambul this week.

I see no reason to belive that Kerry would have had any greater success.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21479 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 959 times:

L-188: The problem with Kerry, is that he makes statements about gaining international cooperation in Iraq, but then when somebody asks him "how" he gets that deer in headlights look on his face.

Really? i doubt that.

There´s no magic involved; Just avoid the most blatant mistakes Bush has made and you´re all set: Present your interests on the international scene - just meet the others with respect while you´re doing it! That´s it.

It´s actually the same as in your personal relations. If you really shouldn´t understand this simple principle, it would make me wonder...  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 949 times:

B757300 brings up a very good point....and you'd continue to see this list increase if he takes office...items like the F/A-18E Super Hornet, JDAM bombs, F/A-22, the JSF, the new Aircraft Carriers, etc etc....the Dems lately have a history of getting into office, and not knowing how to use the militay power they're given...only to slash it.

Guess this one did turn into a war huh? Good stuff though, thanks B757.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 946 times:

Present your interests on the international scene - just meet the others with respect while you´re doing it!

What you fail to grasp is that even if he'd asked them while presenting roses/chocolate/champagne.... the French, Germans, and Russians still would have told him to piss off; if for nothing else than to protect their own [illegal] kickbacks.

The ~REAL~ question is, "what then?"

Would Kerry forge ahead with whatever resolve he had going in? The answer: NO!

Why? Because there's never been a molecular shred of evidence in his multi-decade voting/service record to suggest he would.

[Edited 2004-06-30 02:09:23]

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 940 times:

DeltaGuy, B7573000 hasn't said one good thing since he got here, and if you're using him to back you up, you don't have much to stand on.

User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 935 times:

I have heard ideas are foreign to Mr. Kerry....

 Big grin


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13612 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 931 times:
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he will discuss things with friends and allies, not shove it down their throats, as Bush did in Iraq

So what happens when our friends and allies don't want us to do something we really need to do? Will the President acquiesce to their wishes, or will he, with great regret, go ahead and do what's in the best interest of our nation?

If Kerry will do the former, then he doesn't deserve to occupy the Oval Office.


Back to foreign Policy:

Bush - Governor of Texas, never left the country. Doesnt know locations of many countries on a map.

Kerry - Served on the Senate Foreign Relations committee.

Foreign policy credentials: Bush 0, Kerry 1



Your argument would only hold water if Senator Kerry were running against Governor Bush.


He's not.


George W. Bush IS actively working as President of the United States, so no matter how many credentials Kerry can muster, he still can't trump Bush's actual job experience, regardless of what you may think of Bush's performance.






"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 929 times:

Governor of Texas, never left the country

Not true at all.

First of all, Bush did a ton of Gubernatorial work in Mexico.

For the sake of candor: Bush had never left the continent, nor never visited a country other than Mexico on official business.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21479 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 916 times:

EA CO AS: So what happens when our friends and allies don't want us to do something we really need to do? Will the President acquiesce to their wishes, or will he, with great regret, go ahead and do what's in the best interest of our nation?

What do you do when your friends don´t agree to your plans?

I hope that in case it´s about something that affects them as well as yourself you´ll try to convince them with all the arguments you´ve got, and conversely you´ll listen to any counter-arguments from your friends before you´ll agree on a joint effort to solve the problem.

I don´t hope you´ll just trample over your friends and let them deal with the consequences of your actions. There are people like that; But they usually don´t have many friends, for some reason...


Weird that I have to explain the fundamental basics of human civilization to you, don´t you think?  Insane


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 903 times:

For the sake of candor: Bush had never left the continent, nor never visited a country other than Mexico on official business.

It should also be noted that Bush is NOT PERMITTED to visit many countries (eg. Canada) as a private citizen due to his CRIMINAL CONVICTION for drunk driving. So travel was not the easiest thing for him prior to his election into public office.

If Bush were not born in the United States, his criminal conviction for a "crime of moral turpitude" would also make him permanently ineligible for naturalization into US Citizenship and could be used to deport him as a "criminal undesirable".

But we digress......

[Edited 2004-06-30 05:39:08]

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13612 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 864 times:
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What do you do when your friends don´t agree to your plans?

I hope that in case it´s about something that affects them as well as yourself you´ll try to convince them with all the arguments you´ve got, and conversely you´ll listen to any counter-arguments from your friends before you´ll agree on a joint effort to solve the problem.


Klaus, Klaus, Klaus...

Tell me this - what if you absolutely HAD to do "X", but your friends didn't want you to do "X" and there were no joint efforts that would work?

Would you subordinate your needs to placate your friends' wishes?

Sorry, but sometimes you can't get things done in a committee. Occasionally you have to do what is unpopular, and if doing what is right for the U.S. means that France and Germany aren't happy, then so be it.

While we'd love to have our friends agree with us, we don't need their permission.




"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
25 ConcordeBoy : and conversely you´ll listen to any counter-arguments from your friends before you´ll agree on a joint effort to solve the problem. Amazing! ...what
26 Post contains images Klaus : EA CO AS: Tell me this - what if you absolutely HAD to do "X", but your friends didn't want you to do "X" and there were no joint efforts that would w
27 ConcordeBoy : Too bad they never tried it with substantial arguments that could be verified in any way Saddam's violation of every UN sanction from the previous 12y
28 Post contains images EA CO AS : Your friends may have good and solid reasons for not wanting you to screw up something whose consequences they would have to suffer. Klaus, what conse
29 MaverickM11 : "No flimsy pretense in the world would have been enough - I´ll give you that. Too bad they never tried it with substantial arguments that could be ve
30 Post contains images Zhukov : If I remember well, the arguments of Bush administration for starting a military operation in Iraq were : - to eliminate the threat of massive destruc
31 ConcordeBoy : the american soldiers as liberators, but like invaders an accusation which is now, severely lacking in merit Furthermore, there is by now no evidence
32 Klaus : ConcordeBoy: Saddam's violation of every UN sanction from the previous 12yrs, couldnt be verified?? If that had really been a reason for the attack, t
33 Jcs17 : Since when has Kerry even laid out a specific initiative on foreign policy. His policy so far has been: bash Bush, bash Bush, bash Bush, involve the U
34 EA CO AS : You need to be right! I guess that's the part you don't seem to understand - your country's opinion of "right" differs from ours. Ultimately though, i
35 Klaus : EA CO AS: I guess that's the part you don't seem to understand - your country's opinion of "right" differs from ours. Maybe I´m old fashioned... But
36 Zhukov : ConcordBoy, I've just read the EA CO AS post, and he's speaking of invasion, isn't he ? Besides, I'm sure there isn't much people in Iraq who really b
37 Alphascan : It should also be noted that Bush is NOT PERMITTED to visit many countries (eg. Canada) as a private citizen due to his CRIMINAL CONVICTION for drunk
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