Ryanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16 Posted (9 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1492 times:
I'm interested to find out what our German friends think of 'Schumi'. He is almost certainly the best F1 driver ever but in England when we have sports stars who achieve mega-fame and riches (e.g. Beckham) they regularly get pilloried. Is this the same with Schumacher in Germany, or is he really popular?
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8522 posts, RR: 46 Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1473 times:
Schumi is pretty popular, the only German sports stars that get "pilloried" are football players... I wonder why. People don't like the fact that people who suck at their job still earn millions and millions of Euros.
On the other hand, almost every German who earns a fortune is somehow suspect, since most people do that by robbing others or the state. Best example of this is the Vodafone/Mannesmann ordeal. I don't want to explain that one because I don't want to get angry.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
Oly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6517 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1469 times:
Tangent to the topic....
I've got a F1 nut friend in Canada and she said that in the past 3 races MS has (allegedly - lawyers might be reading ) bent the rules, to be polite about it, and the FIA have seemingly (allegedly - lawyers) turned a blind eye. (Passing under yellow, passing on the warm up lap and something else I forget)
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13599 posts, RR: 63 Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1451 times:
I had a colleague, who, coming from Kerpen about 20 km away, was in mechanic school with Ralf Schumacher (both Schumachers are qualified car mechanics). Ralf was apparently a friendly and popular guy, while his older brother Michael (also going to the same school, but a different class), was considered to be a bit withdrawn and a bit arrogant.
I see Michael Schumacher´s Challenger quite often on the GA ramp beside the cargo ramp at CGN (no, you can notz see the plane from a public place, there is a hangar in the way).
Tiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 days ago) and read 1358 times:
"The tabloids prefer to write about Ralf and his big-boobed wife, Michael doesn't really produce many headlines with his life, because he's a very family-focused man."
I always get the two wifes, mixed up, Cora and Corrina. Which one is which?
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10046 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1346 times:
to answer your friends opinion of Michael breaking rules. Well, that is not true (anymore, he did when he was driving for Briatore/Benetton 10 years back, though): The yellow flag affair in Indianapolis was a (unmeasurably) dead race, so no rule-breaking overtaking, just balancing on the edge (what really clever people often do!). And both other cases you refer to are unknown to me. German motorpress discusses issues like this to death, but beside the yellow flag-thing I heard and read nothing this way.
general answer to the topic: as said, Michael is probably the most-liked and respected sportsman in Germany, because he represents classic "German" virtues: hard work, honesty, trying harder than anybody else around, true to his wife, no mistakes, no affairs.
But that also leads to that he is not really loved passionately, because he is somehow "inhuman" in the way he doesn´t seem to make mistakes. He is also seen as a rather boring guy. Absolutely no society guy, he´s basic and simple like where he comes from. His riches didn´t corrupt him like so many stars. And he is no show-off at all.
Undoubtedly he is someone to be respected, and without a doubt the most successful and complete driver ever. Who is Senna, Clark, Stewart? They didn´t achieve 50% of what Schumacher did.
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 33 Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1331 times:
Who is Senna, Clark, Stewart?
well, Senna and Clark are legends..because they are both dead, both dies in race cars, Senna during F1 GP in Imola, Clark in Hockenheim...and both are deservedly legends!
I sincerely hope Schu will make it out of F1 alive, don't get me wrong, but he will have a problem to achieve the same "level of legend" as these two.
Senna was probably the most spectacular driver that ever lived..someone remembers his first lap in Donington in that legendary GP Europe in the pouring rain? Must have been 92 or 93...see, that's what I'm talking about.
Schu did the same, e.g. Barcelona a few years later, when the track was virtually fully underwater...I remember the headlines of those days: Michael came, saw and...walked on the water. True! But then Senna was earlier!!
Stewart was or rather is a likeable guy, a hard worker with tons of luck, but not really one the super legendary divers, just like Prost or Mansell.
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 54 Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1329 times:
Oh, I don't know, Andreas. Fangio has a legend about him, and he died in his bed, I don't see why Schumacher should be different.
As for his alleged misdemeanours, there's always going to be whispers about him because he has form in this regard. People were pretty much willing to give him the benefit of the doubt over the Damon Hill incident until he tried the same trick the following year with Villeneuve. So it isn't as if there's no justification whatsoever for alleging sharp practice, wrong as it may (and probably is) be. It might slightly taint him, but the truth is that Schmacher could well be the finest motor racing driver in history.
There's an unfortunate irony here. Schumacher is so dominant, so clearly a cut above everyone else, that the sport has become mind-numbingly dull to watch. That might be his biggest problem when people look back on his career. I hope not, that would be truly unfortunate.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 33 Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1322 times:
Why did I know that of all people YOU'd come up here...?
Fangio is an altogether different case. His career was in the fifties, most people weren't born than...so basically it's either the driver, that is dead, or the fan not being born ...and Schu is an ongoing event so to speak! (and I guess he'll break all records there are until he finishes his career, even the most ridiculous ones).
Now as for his reputation: I don't exactly see the point in picking Schu as being an unfair driver, remember the famous duels between Senna and Prost? Senna did ram Prost's car in Suzuka at a racing speed of 300km/h, now THAT was completely crazy...or the other incident with Prost ramming Senna, and Senna driving on and even then only some utter morons of the FIA (do I remember the name Ickx??) could take away the title from him?
I guess it's what makes drivers really great: They just can't stand to lose a race, no matter what, even if it leads to unfairness.
He was treated unfairly, too: remember Spa, when cars had that wooden plate to kill diffusor effect below the cars? He spun his car at around 220km/h over the kerbs, caught it in the spin and drove on to win! Later he was disqualified because he had damaged that wooden plate...RIDICULOUS!!
So where's the point? His try to kick Villeneuve out wasn't exactly unfair, it was purest frustration...and Villeneuve of all people should know this...remembering his late daddy who did the same!
Gman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1317 times:
I take my hat off to Schumacher for his and Ferrari's dominance, but I think his domination of the sport is more to do with the Ferrari horses behind him then being that much better a driver than anyone else.
I find Schumacher's style of driving to be very boring, I was brought up on Mansell throwing his Williams around, you could see when he was on charge. Whereas with Schumacher you can't tell if he is on a fast lap or not. Today's F1 is all about everyone watching Schumacher race away and accepting 2nd place. Mansell, Senna, Prost and co would of chased him down and put him under pressure and we've seen him crack when pressure is put on him by the likes of Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve.
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 54 Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1316 times:
I'm not quite sure why you reacted so strongly, Andreas. I was praising Schumacher, not criticising him.
I was just saying that those two incidents are the reason why people feel free to suggest sharp practice, even when there isn't any. Saying that he can't bear to lose and that's what makes him great is exactly the point. Senna also did the same type of thing as you say.
The reason I gave the exampel of Fangio, is of a great driver who is long remembered, even though he didn't die during a career in what was a much more dangerous sport then. Schumacher almost certainly won't be fully appreciated until he has finished in Formula One, but my point is that he certainly will be appreciated, even if he lives (as we would all hope) to a ripe old age.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 33 Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1309 times:
Oh Lord, do I really have to place smilies every 2 words? I'm not reacting strongly, but merely wanted to add a few points that indicate why Gman's post is completely wrong.
No, maybe with the exception of Senna none of them would have chased him down, and even Senna did see the real potential of Schu when he was still alive...that's why he hated him instantly: He saw himself, 10 years younger, as talented as himself, as dedicated as himself..the future...and for the first time he saw the guy that would be his successor...and nobody wants to see THAT!!!
The role of Ferrari in Schu's career: Irrelevant, he would have done that with every team there is: Gathering all that topstaff he put together, and developing a car that is nothing short of sensational when it comes to reliability. As for speed: look at Rubinho! THAT is the real speed of the car..and it fits Schu perfectly well: reliable, neutral with a slight tendency to understeer..the rest is the so-called Schu-factor: Driving like a computer!
Cracking under pressure: Gman, don't read those crappy columns by Stewart and Irvine..Stewart is close to old-age senility and Irvine...well we all remember what Schu did to him when they were teammates: He completely annihilated him, period!
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10046 posts, RR: 11 Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1307 times:
"Senna was probably the most spectacular driver that ever lived".
He was a great driver, but even if he would have survived its very unlikely he would ever have achieved the amount of success Michael Schumacher has accumulated. Sennas career had its ups and downs, more ups than downs, but he always had at least one opponent that was of his quality, even if it was someone different each year. I personally never liked Senna very much, it started when he drove for McLaren, when F1 became more boring as it is today. And I never forgave him when he kicked out Prost in a race that decided the championship (1989, or was it 1990?). That was worse than Schu´s action against Villeneuve in ´97, only that Senna didn´t get punished for it!
"Senna was probably the most spectacular driver that ever lived".
Well, does someone remember Gilles Villeneuve? He rivals Senna in this respect. I´ve seen several races live on track when he was with Ferrari, and these races were the most spectacular I´ve ever seen - because of him. A kind of boy-faced madman, but what a racer!
A big plus for Schumacher is that he is driving for the most popular team as well. Ferrari is head and shoulders above everyone else, in terms of quality, history, looks and popularity. A retreat of Ferrari could kill F1 in a minute, it would be worse than if Williams, Renault and McLaren would resign together.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10046 posts, RR: 11 Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1302 times:
"Mansell, Senna, Prost and co would of chased him down and put him under pressure and we've seen him crack when pressure is put on him by the likes of Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve."
Mansell and even more so Damon Hill were absolutely not of the league of Schu, Senna and Prost. They just had 1 or two great seasons with stunningly superior cars (but, god, were these Williams cars ugly!). Excellent drivers they were, that is undisputed. And Mansell was a great fighter, too.
What I really would have known is how would F1 be when Schumacher and that other great complete analytic allround-driver, Niki Lauda, would have had the chance of racing against each other!
Gman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1287 times:
Nigel Mansell would of surely have won more than one World Championship if his luck would of been better. At least three more World Championships were on the cards but bad luck struck with him suffering a back injury in practice for the 1987 Japanese Grand Prix, the blown tyre while leading at the 1986 Australian Grand Prix and the appalling run of luck he had in the 1991 season. He is the only driver to have won the F1 World Championships and Indy Cart Championships (proving that Yanks can't drive in the process) in back-to-back seasons and came within a few laps of winning the Indy 500.
Mansell was also involved in what is probably the greatest grand prix drive ever during the 1987 British Grand Prix, when after a tyre problem came out 30 seconds behind Piquet. After 10 laps the gap was down to 20 seconds, after another five laps the gap was down to 10 seconds (thats 10 seconds in five laps!!!!, Schumacher would of stuck his car in the wall by now) , followed by the greatest overtaking maneuver in F1 history. The man is a legend without a doubt.
Also you can't compare Barrichello and Irvine with Schumacher, they are not given a fair go to take on Schumacher by Ferrari. One of the reason I detest the Ferrari organisation.
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 33 Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1261 times:
Well tavong I really appreciate your concern about what Monty has to tell the world every time someone sticks a micro in his face, but I have to tell you a few terrible truths you will not read in Colombia:
1. Monty should do his homework, that is, test work during the winter, instead of giving interviews just how ggreat he is, and how great his car is...he would come to the conclusion neither is true!
2. Monty should try to get rid of his Schu complex..it starts getting ridiculous!
3. Monty was never and will never be a champion...simply because HE breaks under pressure..but he doesn't recognize it...it's always the others.
Juanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1249 times:
Andreas: where in his reply did Tavong say anything about JPM? Anyway, what I do not like from almost all F1 racers (MS, RS, JPM, FA included) is that they are extremely arrogant; of course MS can be that way because he have won a lot; but JPM has been champion too, not in F1 yes, but we won Indy 500 in his first and only try and also won the 1999 Indi Car series; if those competitions mean nothing to you Europeans that is your problem, in fact a lot of Americans see F1 the same way; I would say that here in Colombia we have enjoyed his participations in Indi Car series as those races were extremely harder and more competitive; F1 is, most of the times, too boring to worth the early morning wake up to see 21 drivers behind MS.
But as you did, to stay in the topic, MS is a really good driver, but, I don't think he would have won as many races with, for example, 2004 McLaren car, unfortunately there is not a final word on this discussion because we'll never see him driving any of those cars any time soon.
Photopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2538 posts, RR: 19 Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1248 times:
Oh PLEASE..... give me a break.
Gman94 wrote....."He (Mansell) is the only driver to have won the F1 World Championships and Indy Cart Championships (proving that Yanks can't drive in the process) in back-to-back seasons and came within a few laps of winning the Indy 500."
You need to brush up on your motor racing history a little. There's more to the world than British racing drivers.
Kindly note the following.
Formula 1 World Champions AND CART Indy Champions AND Indy 500 Winners
1984 CART Champion
1969 Indy 500 Winner
1978 Formula 1 World Champion
1989 CART Champion
1989 & 1993 Indy 500 Winner
1972 & 1974 Formula 1 World Champion
1995 CART Champion
1995 Indy 500 Winner
1997 Formula 1 World Champion
So Mansell won both as well.... but DIDN't manage the Indy 500 victory. Simply not up to the measure of these three who did it all.
On a side note. Anybody remember the classis lap-after-lap wheel-banging race at Imola between the late Gilles Villeneuve in his Ferrari and Rene Arnoux in the turbo Renault. Now THAT was a race to remember.
Gman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1223 times:
Sorry Steve you need to brush on your English reading, I said 'back-to-back' seasons no other driver has done that and I never made any degoratory comments to non British drivers except the joke I done about American drivers.
MNeo From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2004, 776 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1189 times:
what i really liked about shimi was his first 2-3 years in ferrari. during those times he managed single-handetlly to win races. for him and ferrari it was
Shimi made ferrari
Ferrari made shimi win
then ferrari made barichello.
the next logical step would be for michel to retire or to move inot a smaller club abd help them out.
PS: anyone remmber the ner perpindicular turn in sam marino a coule of years back. he took it like with the E-break and drove from it like nothing happened.
also i have videos oh him taking a stock 550 around tracks in Italy/Germany and trust me that was some driving
Tavong From Colombia, joined Jul 2001, 834 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1175 times:
"1. Monty should do his homework, that is, test work during the winter, instead of giving interviews just how ggreat he is, and how great his car is...he would come to the conclusion neither is true!
2. Monty should try to get rid of his Schu complex..it starts getting ridiculous!
3. Monty was never and will never be a champion...simply because HE breaks under pressure..but he doesn't recognize it...it's always the others."
Who is starting to talk about JPM???
1- I agree he should be less arrogant and the car is never has great as he or BMW/Williams say. No discuss point
2- Shumi also needs to get rid of his Mony complex, he should stop defending his brother and babbling about Monty and anyone who barely fades his "magnificence" don0t worry sooner or later he will begin with the Alonso complex.
3- Maybe JPM breaks under pressure but even Shumi got to learn to control that, i really don't see a reason for why JPM would never be a champion, that's pretty arrogant from you....
And back to the point please read again my post, i said that SHU IS AN EXCELLENT DRIVER what do you argue about that??????
The fact for me is that Shumi has an excellent car that surpasses everyother car in F1 that's a fact you can't deny, and at this time F1 has became a boring thing, the car is so excellent that Shumi keeps faded by that car, you barely see his abilities to race the car, maybe the Clasifications are becoming more exciting than the career itself, or if the car doesn't fades the driver why is all the rules change about the car limitations and all the other things F1 will change if not cause the F1 became a complete "money wins the races?"
Ferrari has an outstanding budget for their cars, that have made them almost unbeatable since 2001, the other teams would never have that amount of money, that is harming the competition cause everyone already knows that Shumi will win, Barrichelo has the eternal second, i really would like to see emotion in a race a Shumi pressured when he shows all their skills ans abilities, hes great, it's better than JPM no discussion but come on at this time the F1 became the competition where the car wins the races the human is only for verification. (IMHO)
Colombian coffee, the best...take a cup and you will see how delicious it is.
25 L410Turbolet: Isn't M. Schumacher TOO good for the F1 as a whole??? He needs only one more GP to win and he's a champion - and there are 7 more GPs after Silverston
26 Andreas: L410Turbolet: Could you please explain that? I've heard that from other sources, too, but I can't quite follow: To be champion you need the number of
27 Tiger119: If this is how you all feel about Formula One (speaking in generalities mind you), I would hate to be part of a conversation about football (that's s
28 L410Turbolet: Andreas, I only heard it from "other sources" (Eurosport) just like you, without bothering with the math. I guess you're right! I don't follow F1 as m
29 Delta767300ER: From a U.S. point of view I have always been a Schumacher fan since I started watching F1 in 1994 when he drove for Benneton. Sadly F1 Racing isnt ver
30 Andreas: Tiger: Don't worry, quite a few people who do have a basic understanding of racing, mostly those, who've done it themselves, are saying that...you're
31 L410Turbolet: Andreas, yeah, that's what I've heard about MS as well. Stories about him staying with the mechanics long into the night, helping them with the tuning
32 Delta767300ER: Hey, This is off topic but does anyone know if their are any F-1 video games for PS 2 or XBOX? Thanks! -Delta767300ER
33 Gman94: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00023HUQW/ref=br_lf_li_1_2/202-5378324-4827805 Not sure if it's available in the US, I haven't played it but
34 Andreas: Ban of Tobacco ads: Crap, total utter crap, especially since you still have those in the cinema, newspapers etc. The effect is questionable at best! T
35 Delta767300ER: Thanks for the link. I just read the reviews and saw the screenshot. It looks awesome. I am going to do a search and see if i can somehow get a copy i
36 Andreas: Gman, try this one...sorry couldn't resist! http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00023JDK8/qid=1089371418/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_8_1/202-7130390-7183040
37 Gman94: Andreas, I think Senna is a legend, the only point I was making was that I also consider Mansell a legend and more to do with his style of driving tha
38 Andreas: Good Lord, that joke is old...even Arsenal@LHR doesn't use it anymore Mansell a legend? WEll...err...yes somehow I guess *ROFLMFAO*
39 Alessandro: Not German, but I don´t fancy MS too much. He almost started a fistfight with Coulthard after running into the rear of his car during a rainy F1 race
40 Gman94: Apologies Andreas, it was the best I could come up with at short notice at work. Try these instead for an excellent insight into German culture. I scr
41 Andreas: Ok Gman, you want war...you got it : Well Gman, I'm afraid you didn't get the point behind all this! We do this for.....you! And the likes of you, be
42 Gman94: Ok Andreas, If you want war you've got war, You know what happens to Germany when you go to war with us, but I wont mention that. Also the war is not
43 Banco: As for the beer, I don't drink and think all beer tastes of cats piss whether it's German or British Er. You may like to know that you've just declare
44 Andreas: Yes, I don't want to remind you that last time you had help...couldn't do it on your own ...ok that's probably oversimplifying the whole thing, but so
45 Banco: And modern wars ARE decided by penalty shootouts, and you know who wins, right? Well it used to be Germany, but now you can't get beyond the group sta
46 Andreas: We are talking Germany - England...so far we've won Oh why yes and it took England exactly 25 hours longer to go home...great achievement!
47 Gman94: Actually Andreas if you take into account the days on which we played our first and last game and you played your first and last game, we lasted about
48 Andreas: ...meaning, since the outcome was disastrous for both teams, that we handled the EC much more efficient than you guys...and we got a 25 hour headstart
49 Banco: There is not, and never has been, any need to catch you. All we do is wait until you pop off for your 26 course breakfast, as is your wont, and then t
50 Racko: Who cares about towels, you two just bashed beer! Go have your red wine puppies and leave the discussions to real men
51 Andreas: Ah yes, now we have a Frankfurt-born "real man"...sounds about as realistic as a "real man living close to Brighton" Banco..as far as I know in the en
52 9V-SPF: A suggestion for all Brits and Germans on here: The ultimate fight for towels can be fought here: http://www.expedia.de/daily/promo/handtuchkrieg/?rfr
53 Andreas: The first sentence is an insult for all intelligent people worldwide: They know how to play football on a somewhat decent level... Dear Englishmen, do
54 Banco: Racko, it wasn't me who bashed beer. I was suggesting an Anglo-German alliance against namby-pamby softies in our midst who don't like it. Let's get '
55 Gman94: Racko, it wasn't me who bashed beer. I was suggesting an Anglo-German alliance against namby-pamby softies in our midst who don't like it. Let's get '
56 Andreas: That sounds as if everybody tries to forge an alliance with everyone present in order to bash all others...should make this thread quite worthwhile, t
57 Vaporlock: Well, although I'm not German I think the Michael Schumacher is a great F1 driver. Actually, I guess I'd have to say he is and has been the best - his
58 Silverfox: Ryanb Schu is NOT the best F! driver ever. His records do speak volumes, but as a DRIVER he is crap. I would like to see him on a like for like basis
59 Racko: Actually, according to Michael Brundle the fastest F1 driver ever was Stefan Bellof, sadly he passed away way too early to achieve any great victories