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Senate Rejects Bid For Ammendment Against Gays!  
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1877 times:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,125628,00.html

...rather surprising to me.

Not sure whether to be happy or sad, but I think overall, this is a good thing!

93 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

Well based on your title you must be overjoyed.

But then again, it was no surprise. Too many RINO's and commies in the Senate. Of course Lurch and Sir Sue-A-Lot couldn't even make the vote. Guess they didn't want to go on record and drop a few points in the polls.



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineVSLover From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1897 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

sad?

how might one be sad about the repeal of basic civli liberties/writing bigotry INTO the most sacred of american documents??


User currently offlineATL2CDG From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 296 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

Heaven forbid that we follow in the footsteps of most other advanced Western democracies that extend rights to all people without bias to sexual orientation! Bush can kick and scream all he wants, but you'll never find the 2/3 vote in both houses to pass a constitutional amendment. Most people understand that the U.S. Constitution is about preserving rights, not taking them away.


Ignorantia juris neminem excusat.
User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1839 times:

It's a step in the right direction.... but, I'm not holding my breath.  Big grin


Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1838 times:

OK well, now that this exercise in primary season politics is over can we get back to the real issues? If anyone thought this had a chance of passing the senate with 48 democrats and 25 moderate republicans they were on crack. This was a simple, and probably misguided attempt to appease the far right fundamentalist christians. At least here when the religious zealots lose some vote very few of them will take up arms against the government.

Back to the economy and the war on terrorism.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlinePhxairfan From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 811 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1833 times:

I favor civil unions instead of marriage, but I do not think their should be laws/amendments about them. What people do on their own time is their business. Would I be rioting in the street if it passed, no. Am I going to be partying in the street since it didn't, no.

User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1811 times:

Good, now they can let it be what it is, a States Rights issue.




Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1801 times:

Good, now they can let it be what it is, a States Rights issue.

Problem is the federal courts won't let it be. Activist judges, such as Kennedy, Souter, Stevens, Breyer, Ginsburg, and O'Connor would force it upon every state if they have the chance.

The House is working on a bill that would strip the federal courts of their ability to hear any case relating to marriage. Congress is grated such authority in Article III, Section 2. It has been done many times in the past and only requires a simple majority vote in Congress. Then and only then it will it be a real "states issue".



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineN6376m From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

This is a very good thing. Right wing nuts need to understand that being a conservative means that you want less government intervention in citizen's lives not more.

The lame ass argument that gay marriage would destroy the sanctity of the institution is absurd. Heterosexuals with our 50%+ divorce rate have already done that. Furthermore, the notion that someone else being married or remaining married affects my marriage is crazy.

Why should our federal government carve out a group of people and deny them certain rights and legal protections?


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1795 times:

"anyone thought this had a chance of passing the senate with 48 democrats and 25 moderate republicans"

25 moderate republicans? Where?
I can count no more than 6.
Plus, the GOP has Zell Miller who is more conservative than some of the most conservative Republicans !


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5426 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1793 times:

All I have to say is thank God for "activist judges." Without them, separate but equal would still be the standard down here in the South, interracial marriages would be illegal, and it would be illegal for a consenting heterosexual couple to engage in oral sex in many states.

I was quite pleased to see this blow up in Frist's face.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1790 times:

I did not know that the house could do that (see reply 8) that seems like the best alternative this moment, to save the issue from activist judges.

User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1789 times:

The lame ass argument that gay marriage would destroy the sanctity of the institution is absurd. Heterosexuals with our 50%+ divorce rate have already done that. Furthermore, the notion that someone else being married or remaining married affects my marriage is crazy.

Read what has happened in countries that have legalized queer marriage. The vast majority of children are born out of wedlock, divorce rates rose even higher (mostly because homosexuals do not stay "married") and fewer and fewer people act get married. Homosexual marriage does destroy the concept of marriage and their are multiple studies by many organizations to back this up.



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5426 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1786 times:



Read what has happened in countries that have legalized queer marriage. The vast majority of children are born out of wedlock, divorce rates rose even higher (mostly because homosexuals do not stay "married") and fewer and fewer people act get married. Homosexual marriage does destroy the concept of marriage and their are multiple studies by many organizations to back this up.


Funny, opponents of interracial marriage said the same thing back in the '50s and '60s.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineATL2CDG From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 296 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

B757300:

First, human rights are not a state rights issue. It's a federal concern.

Second, find here Article III, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution:

Clause 2: In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

I see nothing whereby the Congress has the authority or the ability to dictate what cases or concerns are subject to review by the federal court system. They may be able to remove the Supreme Court from jurisdiction, but be rest assured that the federal court system below the Supreme Court will continue to fight for the continuation of rights, not the ending of them.

These are NOT activist courts as neo-conservative prefer to label them. These courts, both on the state and federal level, have a responsibility to interpret various laws as written, and with the U.S. Constitution and her amendments as the supreme law of the law, make decisions regarding the constitutionally of said laws. A legislature writes a law restricting the rights and privileges of a select group of people; the courts finds this a violation of the equal protections amendment (and rightly so). It's quite simple.

If you want to live in a society by which the laws are dictated through a religious authority, move to Iran. The United States is a secular federal republic and the government has an obligation to protect the rights of ALL citizens, not just those that wear a cross, slap a Jesus-fish on the back of their SUV and mindlessly follow George W. Bush.

[Edited 2004-07-14 23:15:21]

[Edited 2004-07-14 23:24:32]


Ignorantia juris neminem excusat.
User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

I've never understood why it can't just be referred as a "Civil Union" instead of marriage. My partner and I had ours almost two years ago in Vermont and if we were living in Vermont as opposed to Georgia, we'd basically be treated like a married couple. Massachusetts and San Francisco's intentions were great, but Vermont seems no problem with the Civil Union concept. At the same time it keeps the right-wing over zealous religious fanatics at bay.  Big grin


Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

"divorce rates rose even higher (mostly because homosexuals do not stay "married")"

Really?

How much higher? Given that people like you are always crowing about how the percentage of homosexuals are no more than 1% of the overall population, an increase in gay divorce (even assuming that ALL gay couples should divorce) should have no statistical bearing on overall divorce rates which are exceptionally high among straights to begin with. (About 50% in the US, 50% in the Netherlands, 45% in Canada).

Math may be hard for Barbie, but its even harder for you !

You and quivering lipped lisping Frist need to go back to the drawing board.


User currently offlineN6376m From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1767 times:

B757300 - please list what countries you are referring to and what studies show the relationship between legalization of same-sex marriage and the outcomes you describe.

I think you're just talking out of your ass and making up statistics to support your claim.

Remember there's something called the post hoc fallacy which means that just because something occurs after an event, it doesn't mean that it is caused by the event.

Primitive man didn't understand this. That's why they though that sacrificing virgins would calm the Gods and offer them protection from an earthquake but never realizing that an earthquake's occurance had nothing to do with the sacrifice or lack of sacrifice of a virgin.



User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1751 times:

Contrary to what many choose to believe, this is not a civil rights issue and in no way compares to the issues facing people of color.

I think the activist judges are trying to trump the system to promote their own beliefs without regard to the laws of the land and the will of the people. There is a right and a wrong way to do this, these judges, and these mayors are going about it the wrong way.

Not that anyone cares, but I believe that a same sex couple should under the bindings of a union have the same rights and privileges that a man/woman union would.

Seriously, could same sex couples do much worse than the already sickening 50% divorce rate?

It appears to me, that it is far too easy for anyone to get married same sex or not...Brittany Spears, J-Lo....a few of my cousins. Ridiculous.

J



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

I'm gay and against gay marriage.... marriage is a religious term that is only going to radicalize the right wing & make them MORE miltant..

anyway... I'm glad that it never got to the floor, but it's a sad day in Washington when your supposive "future" president misses so many votes, including this one.

I'm wondering if the gays & lesbians are going to support Kerry now..

anyway, i'm glad to hear it was shot down :P


User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

Why would gays and lesbians support Kerry now...he has said the same things Bush has said regarding Gay Marriage...well as of yesterday he had. No telling today.  Smile

Another question, why is it Gays and lesbians? Isn't the term "Gay" like an umbrella for both sexes? Seems a tad redundant.

J



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4130 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1715 times:

Back to the economy and the war on terrorism.

Thank you. I'm so sick of this Gay Marriage Amendment crap. There are so many other problems both in the country and in the world that are more important than gays wanting to get married. This is simply Conservative pandering to their base, meanwhile wasting time and taxpayer money on their zealotry.



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1707 times:

Don't worry, I said it, and I meant it, Right wing nuts usually don't like change and hate anything that doesn't benefit them!

I said that people who support the bill also were or would be against desegregation of our public places in the 50s/60s and would probably be racist...

It's no news to me that b757300 thinks this way.



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1696 times:

Contrary to what many choose to believe, this is not a civil rights issue and in no way compares to the issues facing people of color.

...really? Do expand on that.



(I could however, save you the time by stating that unless you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that gays are not born as they are, you're wasting your time).


25 AIR757200 : At least my Senator is on my side as I received this E-mail... "Thank you . . . . . for contacting me to share your opposition to the federal marriag
26 JAL777 : As a card carrying member of the Republican party... I am absolutely................ relieved. What a STUPID idea.
27 Jaysit : "Contrary to what many choose to believe, this is not a civil rights issue and in no way compares to the issues facing people of color." Really? How s
28 Post contains images AvObserver : Amen to this! It's sad that Bush remains firmly under the thumb of the religious right on this issue, another example of how their misguided influence
29 Garnetpalmetto : What an incredibly sophomoric comment, B757300. It makes you sound much younger than what your profile says Funny, his age changed in his profile. It'
30 Jamesag96 : Concordeboy...I'd be wasting my time then because I too tend to believe that people are born that way. I have several family members and some close fr
31 Dc10guy : Let me get this "straight" The fag hating republicans have complete control of both the congress and the senate and the white house but they won't ban
32 Dl021 : Are we back to really important stuff yet, or are we still bitching about the President appeasing the hard right religious in his party? If we are sti
33 Aloha717200 : I am really surprised that even a good many of the GOP senators opposed this bill as well. There is NEVER a valid excuse to write bigotry and discrimi
34 Dc10guy : Sometimes the truth hurts... The republicans are not standing up for the family dude ??? America is in trouble. Men are marring men women marring wome
35 Diamond : Somewhere in the 'bunker', Cheney, Bush and Rove are having a scotch on the rocks, and sampling their latest contraband Cuban cigars. Why? Because thi
36 Alpha 1 : A very good thing. I think the Republicans should go back to one of their core issues, states' rights, and let each state decide for themselves. It is
37 Dc10guy : Diamond, You hit that nail on the head... As long as the gay issue is on the front page the Americans coming home in coffins problem will slip from th
38 ATL2CDG : Alpha 1: The Republicans gave up their 'core issues' with international 'intervention', bigger government and hijacking of social policy. It's all smo
39 Post contains links Johnboy : Hey, here's some food for thought! For those that that care to view, it's the news story that states European study shows that same-sex marriage doesn
40 Ussherd : Meanwhile, back in the UK the the House of Lords voted 148 to 130 to add an amendment onto the Civil Partnerships Bill, to allow close relatives who a
41 Post contains links Scbriml : Quote from BBC item about this: "BBC religious affairs correspondent Jane Little says that to many Americans the constitution itself is sacred - despi
42 JGPH1A : 11,000 attempts ? Blimey - I wonder what they were all for...
43 N6376m : B757300 - Where are all your "facts" about the runaway divorce and illegitimacy rates? You've shown yourself to be a bull$hit artist with a big bark b
44 Alpha 1 : Facts are that gays getting married, while I'm against it for my own reasons, will not threaten traditional families, if those who start traditional f
45 Jaysit : "A very good thing. I think the Republicans should go back to one of their core issues, states' rights, and let each state decide for themselves." Let
46 JeffM : Since there most likely isn't a statistic on the divorce rate of gay couples... what is the "separation rate" on these unions? I have read and heard p
47 Klaus : JeffM: Since there most likely isn't a statistic on the divorce rate of gay couples... what is the "separation rate" on these unions? I have read and
48 Garnetpalmetto : Where are all your "facts" about the runaway divorce and illegitimacy rates? You've shown yourself to be a bull$hit artist with a big bark but very li
49 Jamesag96 : While I don't agree with Mr. Stretched 757...maybe the guy had a birthday. As for you maybe you should stop calling the kettle black...with some of yo
50 Post contains images Dl021 : Hey, what about the rights of tg to get married to other tg's? Now there's a stumper (no pun intended) (well, now that I think about it I'll take cred
51 Post contains images Alpha 1 : Garnettpalmetto, B757300 NEVER will discuss the merits of anything. When confronted with opposing views, he clams up, or tries to shift the blame to D
52 Garnetpalmetto : While I don't agree with Mr. Stretched 757...maybe the guy had a birthday. James - read more carefully. His age changed downward. Now unless he ages i
53 Go Canada! : Im a conservative by nature but legalised gay bashing is wrong.Its not for the state to define marriage.Its a religious and moral issue. The state sho
54 B757300 : If any of those statistics are close to accurate, it would be a good time to become a "Gay Partnership" Attorney, as it appears there will be lots of
55 Dl021 : I'm not answering for JeffM, but for myself here.... This will wander for a bit then get back to the main point of the thread. The threat many people
56 N6376m : B757300, Offers a smart ass answer but no substance to defend his position. Put up or shut up. -76M
57 Jaysit : D1021 : Nice response, but no cigar. " If someone wants to argue this point then fine, but it is a legitimate concern, especially since no one here se
58 Garnetpalmetto : Dl021 - Kudos for at least offering a cogent argument. Certainly better than what some members are offering here. It's an argument though, that I don'
59 SegmentKing : I just got done watching Divorce Court. I actually want there to be gay marriage just for the fact that we'd have a Gay Divorce TV show...
60 Post contains images Iflyatldl : How 'bout another Gay reality show; "Who wants to be my Daddy?" Um, wait, it was done last summer.
61 ATL2CDG : How 'bout a reality show based on this 'traditional marriage' family we're trying so hard to protect...? Drunk father in a wife-beater; loose mother w
62 ConcordeBoy : I'd like to think that I and Concordeboy at least prove that argument to be false. Yeah, I got a bit of "what are yous?" when I was growing up, but I
63 AGrayson514 : This reminds me of something my mother always says when a subject about politics comes up: "Its all about the money" I wonder how much of this does ha
64 Post contains images Alpha 1 : The threat many people perceive to homosexual marriage is from the further degradation of the family unit. How, for Christ sake? When gays get married
65 JeffM : "And JeffM, you bring up something not many people have asked about, but, in fairness, how does even that threaten the "traditional" family, or "tradi
66 777236ER : Your a father with young children, as am I, I'm sure you may find it uncomfortable answering "Daddy, why are those two boys kissing? You don't kiss yo
67 NormalSpeed : I'm afraid I'm going to have to go with Alpha 1 and the liberals this time around. A constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage just seems like an e
68 Pdpsol : JeffM, Though I do not personally enjoy seeing men being affectionate in public... Your a father with young children, as am I, I'm sure you may find i
69 JeffM : "Why do public expressions of affection and the thought of having to 'explain' a homosexual couple to your children make you feel 'uncomfortable'?" Be
70 Pdpsol : JeffM, Yes, I had read your prior postings and am aware of the fact you support the ratification of laws creating same-sex civil unions. I too am agai
71 JeffM : Yes, you have made a correct assumption. I do value my comfort over that of gays. Your question was rediculous as you phrased it, and it was not about
72 JeepBoy : Alpha one says: Facts are that gays getting married, while I'm against it for my own reasons, And what exactly is that reason? Prove to those of us th
73 Post contains images Alpha 1 : JeepBoy, obviously, you know nothing about me on this forum, if you're going to write such crap. And what exactly is that reason? The reason is, becau
74 Post contains images CPH-R : Damn, I think this is the first time someone has ever mistaken Alpha 1 for being on the Right side of the political compass It would be like seeing pe
75 Alpha 1 : Damn, I think this is the first time someone has ever mistaken Alpha 1 for being on the Right side of the political compass Nah. Indianguy dies it all
76 Post contains images Espion007 : ill put it the way Jon Stewart did. it would be almost impossible to pass such an amendmant because it would take 2/3 of the senate and the house and
77 Pdpsol : JeffM, I believe you have made your position very clear: - You value your 'comfort' over that of gays and lesbians - You have an incomprehesible posit
78 JeffM : Pdpsol, Your screwing this one up as well. I said I was uncomfortable explaining why a man wants to "marry" another man to a young child, NOT that gay
79 Post contains images Superfly : Conservatives should be the number 1 advocates of gay marriage. After all once you get married, there is no more sex. Thus no more gay sex. Senator Fi
80 Post contains images Santosdumont : Superfly wrote: Senator Fist, is against gay marriage because he must of had a bad gay sex experience. Hell, I guess a last name like Fist doesn't rea
81 Post contains links Schoenorama : It looks like some Republicans not only are in favour of Gay Marriages, they're also in favour of Gay Rape! "Lawmaker arrested for alleged lewdness Re
82 Pdpsol : Just what we need.... another closeted Republican resorting to late-night rendezvous in public restrooms for some nookie...
83 Jaysit : "I certainly don't want it taught as an "acceptable alternative lifestyle", if that's what you mean." But if you support gay civil unions, which I ass
84 Gigneil : I have two points. 1)If you think a man and a woman are more capable of raising a family than two men, you've never once watched daytime television. 2
85 Jaysit : "I believe I already said if you want look at some guys hair ass and drool...go for it..." Thanks ! But then I also want the right to put a ring on hi
86 N6376m : What cracks me up as a conservative is that so many of my so-called brethern can't accept the fact that government recognition of one's marriage neith
87 JeffM : "But then I also want the right to put a ring on his finger and take him home to Mom.." LOL.... but you you can't.
88 Jaysit : ""But then I also want the right to put a ring on his finger and take him home to Mom.." LOL.... but you you can't." Thats OK. I already did, and Mom
89 MaverickM11 : "While you people have been busy hating (and cheating on your wives), we've been busy creating wonderful lives for ourselves." Child, please. The gays
90 Gigneil : I assure you, we don't do more. We do about the same. Straight people can be just as shallow and vindictive as gays, in fact, most are. N
91 Luv767s : I just love it when the "conservative" position is to let the states do their own thing (i.e. definition of Republican), but if that thing is NOT in t
92 Post contains links David b. : Here we go again
93 AGrayson514 : Luv767s: If Republicans would stick to their "conservative" ways then we wouldn't see them getting invovled in peoples' lives and rights regarding rel
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