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Pilot Whose Bomber Dropped A-bomb On Nagasaki Dies  
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5350 times:

Here is a link to the news article:

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5091878


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
154 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5297 times:

A true hero.


.


User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5296 times:

A real hero in history--he saved millions of lives, Japanese and American by dropping the bomb on Nagasaki.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5294 times:



Rest in Peace, General Sweeney

(And Alpha1, you're right on in what you said in this thread.)



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2969 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

"About one-third of Nagasaki City was destroyed and 150,000 people killed or injured, and it was said at the time that this area would be devoid of vegetation for 75 years."
http://www.csi.ad.jp/suzuhari-es/1000cranes/nagasaki/

Yeah, true hero...



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5280 times:

I have no personal feelings for Mr. Sweeney. However I believe that Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings were not necessary. The war would have been won anyways with Soviet and American troops invading Japan. Hundreds of thousands of innocent lives were taken. That does not make Sweeney a hero.

I also do not like remarks in the spirit of "he was doing his job" . That is unacceptable. There are comparisons for that that I'd hate myself to make.






2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5522 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5270 times:

He is a true hero. He helped prevent the Japanese from killing even more! He basically totally ended WWII.

User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5251 times:

With regards to the military state of the conflict in Japan and surrounding area in fall 1945 - the war was supposed to end without loosing more then 200.000 lives. US did not save a single life by dropping that bomb. It's more like the bomb had to be tested in the real world situation. Another reason is purely political - w/o the A-bomb Soviets would probably invade Japan (a move they started in Sept. 45).


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5243 times:

US did not save a single life by dropping that bomb.

Bullshit, I'm no historian by any means, but I know that the sole purposes of dropping those bombs were to end the war and save millions of lives that would be lost (on BOTH sides) with an invasion of Japan--which would've had to occur if we didn't nuke them, because they sure as hell weren't going to stand down until they did get nuked.



-NWA742

[Edited 2004-07-18 19:47:34]

[Edited 2004-07-18 19:48:08]

User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

What did Alpha say that got deleted?

Usher, are you serious? I can't stand this whole "we are all people" line that many Europeans use. You are dammed right I care about American citizens first.....As far as I'm concerned, a million Japanese could have been bomed in order to save some American lives. They declared war, they live with the results.

And the bombing did save many lives. If America had been forced to invade, the Japs would have fought to the end and many more Americans and Japanese would have died.

May he rest in peace.


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

NWA742:
If you are not historian (not even an amateur one) please do some research. I understand your patriotic feelings, but you have to try to see a broader view.

Invasion was on its way. Red Army even performed some reconnaissance landings on the Japanese land. After fierce battles of Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, etc. US simply prefered to choose an easier way. Unfortunately it was an unhuman way.

[Edited 2004-07-18 19:56:10]


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

What did Alpha say that got deleted?

I don't remember exactly, but nothing unnecessary------I don't know why his post was deleted.

US simply prefered to choose an easier way. Unfortunately it was an unhuman way.

Or, maybe a way that would end up costing less lives to end the war. Yep, that's an unhuman way alright.  Insane



-NWA742


User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5214 times:

If the USA had invaded Japan the body count would have been higher. The other point to make was that Japan started an agressive war for no good reason.


It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5207 times:

If your concern is total number of lives lost - you are wrong.




2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5202 times:

The total number of lives lost in WW2 would have been HIGHER had it not been for the two a bombs being dropped.

As you are living in Israel, please answer me this, if heaven forbid The arab armies invaded and Israel was in a war it could not end would you not back a nuclear strike?



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5201 times:

The other point to make was that Japan started an agressive war for no good reason.

No one argues about that. Japan had to be defeated. The method is questionable.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5193 times:

If your concern is total number of lives lost - you are wrong.

How is that?

Japan had to be defeated. The method is questionable.

If the method hadn't been used, a full invasion of Japan would've had to occur. That would cost millions of lives on both the Japanese and American side, everybody knows that. The method that was used ended up killing thousands and thousands, but hadn't it been used, we would be looking at millions and millions today.



-NWA742


User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5192 times:

Theres no easy option in war.America took the option it believed would save more lives.


It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineSjc>sfo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5188 times:

NWA742:

"If the method hadn't been used, a full invasion of Japan would've had to occur."

To that, I say bullshit. The bomb did not need to be dropped on a civilian center. The ratio of soldiers to civilians in Hiroshima was something on the order of 15:1.

The point of the bomb was to say "surrender, or we'll eradicate you". We didn't HAVE to start with eradication on such a collossal scale.


User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5185 times:

To that, I say bullshit. The bomb did not need to be dropped on a civilian center. The ratio of soldiers to civilians in Hiroshima was something on the order of 15:1.

The point of the bomb was to say "surrender, or we'll eradicate you". We didn't HAVE to start with eradication on such a collossal scale.


I agree, dropping the bomb on civilian centers was to get them to surrender. That's why I agree with what we did, because if we didn't get them to stand down, we would've had to invade them, or nuke them again, costing millions of lives more than what those two bombs did.



-NWA742


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8378 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5174 times:

Actually, the original plan was to nuke our way into Japan, creating a path. This would have caused hundreds of thousands more lives lost and, since we didn't know of radiation at the time, thousands of our own troops would have died.

This is sad, though. We just lost Bob Morgan not long ago, as well. As the old adage goes, whenever someone dies, an entire world dies along with them. I'm sure they were very interesting men.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5173 times:

NWA742 :
You agnore the Soviet military power that was there as well. Again, it was also a political decision - Showing the US power to the USSR in order to keep them out of Japan.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8378 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5166 times:

That's right. We didn't want the Russians in Japan. That would mean another Korea, a communist North and a free South.


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5164 times:

NWA742 :
You agnore the Soviet military power that was there as well. Again, it was also a political decision - Showing the US power to the USSR in order to keep them out of Japan.


Well, believe what you want LY7E7, but I'm just talking about the MAIN reasons the bombs were dropped, to end the war and save lives--it was a political decision to end the war, and a moral decision to save lives.



-NWA742


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5159 times:

I seem to recall reading that the bombs were dropped just days before the Soviets promised to invade.......This could have had something to do with it.

However, it doesn't change the fact that millions of Americans and Japanese would have died if the US had invaded.


25 B757300 : Here is a sobering little fact for anyone who thinks invasion was the better choice. In 1945 the United States placed a large order for Purple Hearts
26 Yhmfan : If the method hadn't been used, a full invasion of Japan would've had to occur. That would cost millions of lives on both the Japanese and American si
27 Jcs17 : Not only did dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki basically end the war, sparing millions of lives, but the situation would've become a lot di
28 Bigphilnyc : Yeah, Japan was a real victim in World Wa- Oh, wait, they fuckin started the damn war! Fools.
29 Pelican : I wouldn't say he is a hero. He saved lives. The lives of American soldiers. The costs were hundred of thousands lives of Japanese civilians. I won't
30 Schoenorama : NWA742: "I agree with Alpha 1, B757300, and JCS17 -- this guy was ordered to do this mission, and he did it." Fantastic! That makes "Chemical Ali", th
31 B757300 : The bomb could have been dropped on a military target just to demonstrate its power and a message sent to the Japanese that cities would be next. It w
32 NWA742 : Fantastic! That makes "Chemical Ali", the Iraqi general held responsible for the gassing of the Kurds, another Hero, as he was just following orders,
33 Pelican : Hiroshimawas a military target. Who was talking about Hiroshima? I prefer to say it was also a military target, because cities are more than Army head
34 Rjpieces : One of the reasons Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen was because Tokyo was firebombed to a more devastating effect AFAIR.
35 Yhmfan : Yeah, Japan was a real victim in World Wa- Oh, wait, they ****in started the damn war! Please do not consider the following as defending Japan. It is
36 Sinlock : To draw a parallel, if (and this is definitely in the hypothetical) OPEC countries place an embargo on the United States, do you think that the milita
37 Post contains images Yhmfan : I know that at some point someone was going to open that can of worms........ Glad to oblige!!
38 Post contains links Klaus : Ah, there you are, Sinlock. You´re still an answer short on your very own recent thread Glad To Not Be French. We´re waiting!
39 Iakobos : In the second half of 1945, with the war in the European theatre of operations pretty well done, could the US of A (the government and the people and
40 Jamesag96 : A few points and then I am out: 1.The Atomic Bombs were used to stop the war and make a statement. People forget the fervor in which the Japanese serv
41 Schoenorama : NWA742: "We weren't portraying Mr. Sweeney as a hero simply because he followed orders, he's a hero because he ended the war with his mission, and sav
42 LY7E7 : With all due respect to the US role in WWII , and even taking into account both military and political reasons that stood behind Hiroshima and Nagasak
43 Post contains images Schoenorama : LY7E7 It is nice to see that we can agree on something!
44 Zak : it is shocking how firm people still believe in ww2 era propaganda, i can only agree withLY7E7 that this was one of the darkest chapters of human hist
45 NWA742 : But Mr Sweeney didn't know that at the time he pushed the button, now did he. He was 'simply following orders' Wrong. It was a top secret mission of c
46 Alpha 1 : Yeah, true hero... Hero is a word thrown around too much. We're calling every soldier serving in Iraq a "hero", when they all volunteered, and are doi
47 B757300 : "Having found the bomb we have used it. We used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and b
48 MartinairYYZ : US did not save a single life by dropping that bomb. True, they did the exact opposite......... KILLED tens of thousands of INNOCENT people...
49 Alpha 1 : True, they did the exact opposite......... KILLED tens of thousands of INNOCENT people... War is hell. Another naive soul to deal with. About 200.000
50 BH346 : As someone who is half Japanese (Okinawan technically), I believe that the use of the atomic bomb was justified. It was certainly the lesser of the tw
51 Schoenorama : NWA742: "Our guys probably told him time and time again that it would end the war, he was probably convinced of that fact so he could to be able to li
52 Post contains links Alpha 1 : In other words, you haven't got a clue! You'd like this to be what happened, but you don't know. Yes we do. Truman was told of the weapon, shortly bef
53 VonRichtofen : Hiroshima was a military target yes (I've visited the ruins of the site) but the vast majority of casualties were civilian and good percentage of that
54 NWA742 : ...'probably told him' ... 'probably convinced' ... 'could be able' ... In other words, you haven't got a clue! I made it clear that I was assuming, S
55 Alpha 1 : I wonder how many of you with grandfathers who fought for the US in that war, would never have been born, had the revisionsits here had their way, and
56 N6376m : "Innocent victiims" is a very subjective term. Let's remember, the Japanese people, by in large, considered the emperor as a god on earth. Their devot
57 NWA742 : I wonder how many of you with grandfathers who fought for the US in that war, would never have been born, had the revisionsits here had their way, and
58 Dl021 : Here I seem to be in agreement with Alpha 1 and the others who cindone the pilots actions. The bomb was dropped to prevent the necessity of home islan
59 IHadAPheo : In seeing that Alpha did me the kind favor of summing up what I was going to post in an eloquent way that never could dream of doing I will just make
60 B757300 : If people think the atomic bombs were bad, they would really be whining about what the Allies would have used during the invasion. With the surrender
61 Flight152 : Hiroshima was a military target yes (I've visited the ruins of the site) but the vast majority of casualties were civilian and good percentage of tha
62 Schoenorama : Alpha1: "History proves it was the correct desicion, because it ended a 6-year old conflict, that could have reached 8 years, had it not been used." .
63 Alpha 1 : ...that 'could' have Would have reached 7 years, Schoenerama, could have gone a lot longer. It would have happened, if not for the bomb being dropped.
64 NWA742 : ^^^^^ What he said. -NWA742
65 Dl021 : Alpha has stated the facts as they are. I know we aren't always in agreement, and I wonder why he understands the way WWII had to play out but sees no
66 Jamesag96 : "Travelling sure opens ones eyes..." I was thinking the same thing...only about riding the boat out to the Arizona and standing on the deck of the "Mi
67 MD11Engineer : Well, many Germans have been against nukes during the cold war, because Germany would have become the battlefield and target in case of WW3, so the op
68 LY7E7 : MD11Engineer: These were almost the same facts I wanted to post. Thanks.
69 Pelican : MD11 - respect that's a very good account of historic facts that everybody who talk about this topic should know. @B757300 the German military advance
70 Gman94 : I do consider the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings a dark chapter in human history but the whole of the second world war was a dark chapter of which th
71 Post contains images GKirk : Very sad news, he was doing his job. But it was a job that nobody will ever forget. Thanks to his job, the Japanese were taken out of the equation in
72 LY7E7 : why are you not condemming the Japs for starting their war on the USA at Pearl Harbor Because this thread deals with a different issue. No one here re
73 Schoenorama : Alpha1: It is clear that we're never going to agree on this subject. The problem isn't limited to Hiroshima or Nagasaki. The problem is that you and m
74 Alpha 1 : Because this thread deals with a different issue. There's where you miss the boat. It's not a different issue at all. It's a continuem of the same iss
75 Garnetpalmetto : I wouldn't exactly pay attention to the writings of Eisenhower and the like on the matter. While they were there, I'm sure Ike would have loved to hav
76 Alpha 1 : I wouldn't exactly pay attention to the writings of Eisenhower and the like on the matter. Eisenhower was in charge of Europe, not the Pacific at the
77 Banco : The trouble with subjects like these is that you are always dealing with counter-factual theories - what might have happened, versus what did. As a re
78 EMBQA : I didn't have time to read each and every posting, but here's my input. More people died that first night of fire bombings over Tokyo that night in Ju
79 Alpha 1 : That makes justification in terms of numbers alone extremely dificult, not to mention possibly callous. I certainly don't see it as being callous, to
80 Banco : Alpha1, the rest of it I pretty much agree with. On this point: I certainly don't see it as being callous, to be honest. And tell the GI's and their p
81 Post contains images Alpha 1 : Ok, I gotcha on that one. And funny you mentioned Uncle Joe-I thought of that quote and almost put it in one of my relplies.
82 Go Canada! : I do not believe that Schoenorama has a leg to stand on.Spain is hardly a good example of fighting a nice clean war. America chose the lesser of two e
83 Gman94 : I have one more thing to add to this debate. You can't judge history on the standards of today. It's one of the reasons why the British government wil
84 EMBQA : You can't judge history on the standards of today SO TRUE...!! Today we have CNN, The BBC and FOXNews with LIVE coverage minutes after an event occure
85 Goose : You only need look at the casualty figures for Iwo Jima to get an idea of what would've happened if the Allies (primarily Americans) had invaded Japan
86 MD11Engineer : One thing most people forget is that the bombs were originaly intended to be used against Germany. Most of the top scientists involved were either pol
87 LY7E7 : Germany can be thankfull to the Russians Germany (at least the western part of it) with the entire western Europe can be also thankful to the US and U
88 Pelican : Jan, you are right, we have to be glad that the war in Germany ended before the bomb was ready unless the war would have been even worse. German scien
89 Post contains images L410Turbolet : Schoenorama proved once again to be the unofficial king of bizarre and idiotic comparisons here on a.net (i.e. Chemical Ali post) and his armchair pac
90 Goose : ... and that doesn't count the millions of Japanese who would be killed - civilians were being trained to take on machine-gun nests and tanks armed wi
91 Donder10 : Another issue to be factored in is the possible results of the Soviets managing to gain substantial amounts of land in an invasion of Japan.Although c
92 Goose : Another issue to be factored in is the possible results of the Soviets managing to gain substantial amounts of land in an invasion of Japan.Although c
93 Post contains links Nosedive : Red Army even performed some reconnaissance landings on the Japanese land. After fierce battles of Guadal Canal, Iwo Jima, etc. US simply prefered to
94 Kalakaua : Does anyone remember the coup that took place in the Imperial Palace?
95 Schoenorama : Alpha1: I'm afraid you're still not getting my point. Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough, so I'll try and give it one more shot (no pun inten
96 Nosedive : The attempted one by that one Japanese Major? It failed.
97 MD11Engineer : I´ve got to contradict the statement about Germany having almost built the atomic bomb. I know, it was assumed by the emigree scientists that there w
98 Juanr : I just hope he won't rest in peace. Juan SKBO
99 L410Turbolet : Schoenorama, I'm saying that he was a hero at least as much as any Allied aviator, sailor, infantrymen that risked and many actually made the ultimate
100 MD-11 forever : EMBQA "Up until the Atomic bombings, the Emperor was, supposedly, kept 'in the dark' by the Militarist government and was unaware of how dire the situ
101 Kalakaua : The attempted one by that one Japanese Major? It failed. But imagine if it was successful...
102 Pelican : I wouldn't call him a hero. Fo me it's problematic to call someone a hero who killed hundreds of thousands civilians although he may have saved even m
103 Gman94 :
104 LY7E7 : You can not condemn a man for carrying out his orders during the darkest chapter of human history. Can we please avoid such sentences? I don't think I
105 Gman94 : You can not condemn a man for carrying out his orders during the darkest chapter of human history. Can we please avoid such sentences? I don't think I
106 Post contains images L410Turbolet : OK LY7E7, according to your logic the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombings were a private actions of the Enola Gay crew or Gen. Sweeney's crew? They were part
107 Airplay : A true hero. Hero? Although, he performed his duties, I'd hardly classify him as a hero. Furthermore, lets remember that there are several people who
108 Greaser : The U.S Desperately needed to end the war.. FRance was just about to recover, so was the rest of Europe. The Americans witnessed the ferocity of the J
109 Boeing nut : US simply prefered to choose an easier way. Unfortunately it was an unhuman way. Yea, and war is humane...........
110 Airplay : Nagasaki and Hiroshima were not mass murders, tell that to the millions of dead Allied Soldiers who died due to conventional warfare in Europe and the
111 Gman94 : So what your saying is that civilian lives are valued more highly than the lives of soldiers. Aren't they both human beings? Taking the British army w
112 Alpha 1 : I just hope he won't rest in peace. Juan SKBO Well, Juan, despite you're cruelness, he is resting in peace, because he served his country well, helped
113 Post contains links Gman94 : Alpha 1 I think it's Coventry you are referring to. http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/15/newsid_3522000/3522785.stm
114 Schoenorama : L410Turbolet: "Schoenorama, I'm saying that he was a hero at least as much as any Allied aviator, sailor, infantrymen that risked and many actually ma
115 N6376m : I think this thread misses the point. General Sweeny's heroism was no greater than the heroism displayed by millions of other service men and women th
116 MD11Engineer : Latest during WW1 with the advent of the heavy bomber did the concept of total war appear and the distinction between combatants and civilians as comp
117 LY7E7 : L410Turbolet, I got your point.
118 Juanr : Well, Juan, despite you're cruelness, he is resting in peace, because he served his country well, helped it win a war, and had the nations' gratitude
119 LY7E7 : Juan, As you can understand from my previous posts in this thread, I have serious doubts about the necessity of use of atomic weapons. However, and de
120 Alpha 1 : Anyway real cruelness is to be able to live and die in peace after have killed more than 150.000 innocent civilians in just a couple of seconds, perha
121 N6376m : Alpha1 - you've done it now. A couple of weeks ago I made a crack about a teenager and it almost got me banned. You've now violated the non-agism rule
122 Post contains images Juanr : But it was a war thrust on us, and we did what we had to do to end it. You're one of these revisionists hacks, and you have absolutely no clue to what
123 Alpha 1 : Alpha, you are taking this personally.. That's where you're wrong. I grew up around history-my father taught high school history for 30 years, and he
124 Juanr : Right there, you show abject igonrance. WAR HAS NO RULES. War is hell, and you do what is necessary to win. In 1945, long before you were born, it was
125 Alpha 1 : WAR HAS RULES! So, you tell me something. Put yourself, for a moment in the shoes of one Harry S. Truman, 33rd President of the United States for a mo
126 Juanr : Anyway, I wouldn't be proud of winning a war in a such coward way. Juan SKBO
127 Goose : Anyway, I wouldn't be proud of winning a war in a such coward way. Spilling additional blood and sending more men into the meat-grinder, in order to a
128 Airplay : Alpha, You used several tired old arguments and labels in replying to my statements. However, in my opinion you didn't offer a reasonable argument tha
129 Goose : If you think war has no rules, then lets hope you never achieve a position of power where you can excercise your belief. Although this comment was dir
130 L410Turbolet : Alpha, you definitely have my respect for your patience... L410
131 Airplay : When you're fighting a war of attrition and survival, like the Second World War was, you figure out real quick how far you're willing to go to ensure
132 Goose : OK then. Why is what Al Queda does considered "terrorism"? How about Palestinians and Israelis? Who is right and who is wrong? Who is good and who is
133 Garnetpalmetto : Why is what Al Queda does considered "terrorism"? Because most political scientists are now stepping away from attaching values to what terrorism is a
134 Alpha 1 : Anyway, I wouldn't be proud of winning a war in a such coward way. Oh, you'd rather the U.S. sacrifice a million of it's own sons, and a few million m
135 JetService : Other than the fact that the A-bomb requires less hardware to deploy and was able to deliver an unthinkable surrender, what the hell's the difference
136 Alpha 1 : But JetService, killing them with the TNT is within the "rules" of war. Signed, Juan SKBO (dripping with sarcasm)
137 MATURRO727 : Hey ! Alpha 1: I think you have to stay calm ! Take it easy, this is not a fight this is a forum so please behave your selve MATURRO727
138 MD11Engineer : The main difference are the long term effects through direct irradiation and radioactive fallout, e.g. genetic mutations causing lots of handicapped b
139 Banco : Just on the "war has rules" thing: In 1940, following the fall of France and the evacuation at Dunkirk, Britain was primed for a German invasion. The
140 Post contains images Kay : LY7E7, great signature!!!! kay
141 MD11Engineer : Banco, Don´t forget about the homeguard (or LDV, Local Defence Volunteers as they were called at this time) armed with the infamous pikes, lemonade b
142 Banco : Indeed Jan. It just re-inforces the point that (in reality) the British wouldn't have had a prayer using conventional defensive methods. Had tactical
143 MD11Engineer : BTW, there existed a secret army, recruited from the ranks of the LDV, which were then trained for guerilla warfare against the invaders, with weapons
144 Go Canada! : Banco you are correct in your statements, Britain would have used chemical weapons and if it had had a nuclear device it would have used it. Lets be c
145 JGPH1A : Just to go back to a point made early in this thread... " I can't stand this whole "we are all people" line that many Europeans use" RJ - if we are no
146 Iakobos : Go Canada! If you suggest to put us back on the line (re. "let us be clear"), I propose the following changes 1/ militarily, Japan started the war in
147 Garnetpalmetto : Juan's obsession with the "rules of war" are quite humorous as he seems to believe that they're some monolithic thing that all sides MUST follow. The
148 Post contains images Banco : The British decried American guerilla tactics during our war for independence and believed that Colonial snipers targeting British officers was coward
149 Goose : Rules of war are a nice thing to have - they ensure POWs are treated somewhat decently The Japanese showed during the Bataan Death March that even rul
150 Airplay : As I said, there are no rules in War. OK Goose. Then why are so many "war criminals" tried for attrocities?
151 L-188 : Then why are so many "war criminals" tried for attrocities? Their side lost?
152 Alpha 1 : L-188 got it pretty close. There's no doubt that the winning side writes the history. But there's also no doubt that Germany and Japan committed horri
153 Goose : OK Goose. Then why are so many "war criminals" tried for attrocities? Because they ended up on the losing side. A certain man who set in motion some o
154 Cptkrell : I don't think this will be a duplicate post; my machine dumped off-line as I hit the send-button earlier today. After perusing this topic I decided to
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