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Holland Without Dykes  
User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3434 times:

As many of you probably know, about 66% of our lovely little cold and wet country is below sealevel.
This made me think how my country would look like without the protection of our dykes. After a search on the net I found the picture below.

The light green area shows parts of the country which will be flooded without the protection of the sea dykes.
The dark green area shows parts which will be flooded without protection by river dykes.
The yellow areas are dunes, our natural protection against the sea.




I myself live near the coast next to the word "Noordzee", at the weakest part of the dunes.

AMS btw is also built below sealevel. Elevation is -11 ft.

Well, scary isn't it?

Sander


I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

all the lesbians are leaving Holland?


"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
User currently offlineCaravelle From Norway, joined Aug 2000, 666 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

Not really.
They're all dykes....

- caravelle



Trains and boats and planes....
User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3316 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3368 times:

Aviationfreak,
sorry to disturb but what you state is not true. (66% of land below sea level)
Only some reclaimed land (mainly the western part of Noord Holland) is below sea level.
What the map shows are the areas that could be flooded in case a catastrophic combination happened. (W storm winds + very high tide + broken dykes)

I used to live at minus 2.8m and I can tell it was easy gardening...


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

Yeah i've often wondered what would happen if the coastal defences broke. Still, you Dutch are very resourceful and clever people not to mention organised and motivated - i'm sure you'll find a way of stopping the water.

If it was Britain - we'd be screwed. There would be a massive political debate on it, Michael Howard would accuse the Labour party of being leaky, and not watertight on home defence project. Then there would be controversy as bribes and bungs would have been exchanged through the contractors chosen to do the work - the contract would be removed and that company will go bust amidst claims of financial impropriety. The simplest and most cost effective design for the coastal defence would be rejected for reasons not clear to anyone.

The design chosen would go to Sir Norman Foster and it would costs seventeen times more than the other design. It would then be blocked through local council planning meetings by local residents who refuse to have the coastal defences in their towns, and who would petition the government to reconsider, and would organise marches through London to protest against the concrete monstrosities. Planning would be delayed five years. Work will begin in 2009, whereupon the design is already obsolete. The work was designed to take 24 months but it takes five and a half years to complete and runs some 450% over budget. There are claims and counter claims over financial irregularities, new Bentleys for Construction CEOs, and accounting ineptitude. The tabloid press nickname the whole mess Barriergate.

Of course by then we are all drowned. Thank God its you and not us.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

lakobos, all that land IS at or below sealevel.

The map doesn't show the few islands that would still stick out, true. But that's only a very small area.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Iakobos, with all due respect but you once told me that you lived here for 8 years isn't it? Well I'm born and raised and went to school here and know very well what the situation is.
However you have a point somewhere. I wasn't accurate enough in my statement because I was still at work and was desperate to shut down my system and to go home. According to the site where I stole the pic from 25% is below sealevel and without the dikes aprox. 66% will be remain flooded permanently or will be flooded regularly.

Don't know how your Dutch is today but you can read it yourself:

http://www.natuurdichtbij.nl/kennismaken/drassigedelta/drassigedelta.htm

Without looking at the map I can tell you that provinces like Zeeland, Zuid-Holland, Noord-Holland (where I live), Friesland and Groningen mainly consists out of reclaimed land. Flevoland consists only out of reclaimed land.
Do you know there are only dikes along the coast from Den-Helder, the most northern city of Noord-Holland, up to the German Border. If the land behind the dikes didn't need protection we wouldn't need them.

Well, at least you know why we pay so much taxes out here. Big grin

Hope this helps,
Sander

[Edited 2004-07-21 20:12:36]


I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineNoelG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

Chris,

That is so funny - ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Unfortunately, also scarily true!

Straight onto my tiny respected list!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Noel.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3325 times:

Cheers mate Big grin

England - home of the Brave and the Cynical.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3318 times:

For the benefit of the original poster, who probably is not a native English speaker, "dike" = a device to hold back water, while "dyke" = a woman of a Sapphic disposition.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21495 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3302 times:

At least Dictionary.com says dike and dyke are both valid forms for the water barriers...  Wink/being sarcastic

User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3301 times:

Thanks PROSA, but reply #2 made me already aware what the real meaning is.

Already edited my last post.  Big grin
It's a litle bit confusing because the Dutch word is "dijk". And since "dyke" is an existing English word I was thinking the spelling was correct.
Though I can see the funny side of it.  Laugh out loud

Sander



I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

Would I still be allowed to visit?

Signed,
Kaz


User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3316 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3259 times:

AviationFreak steeds perfekt en nog mijn derde taal in de huidige rangschikking... for a little over 7 years I felt a submarine, living in Lisse and working in the Ship's Hole.

I did not argue about the principle, this is cast in iron since NETHERlands was a few centuries back mostly wetlands and marshlands.
The map however does not show solely areas which are (under normal circumstances) below sea level, but also (and mainly) areas which would be flooded in some specific and unfortunate circumstances, IF there were no dikes/dykes.
It also includes nearly 8,000 sqkm of land reclaimed recently from the sea.

My family originates (15th century) from a place (which also determined our family name) which is shown below sea level on your map.
I can assure you that there was no dike, nor is there one now, and still, at last check I could not find skin between my toes...
The total area (naturally) below sea level ranges from 25 to 70% depending on which website one consults.


User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3258 times:

Every website I consulted seems to agree with each other.

Yes, it's true that the map doesn't show the many islands that will remain in Zeeland, Zuid-Holland en Noord-Holland. I've seen many maps which did.
And where is it your family originates?

Sander



I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

I think I was living in AMS when Flevoland became the 14th (?) province - when was that, exactly ? I remember being very impressed with the idea of a country building itself a whole new province.

User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3245 times:

JGPH1A,

Flevoland was the 12th province. Though the Flevopolder existed for a while they became a province together with the Noord-Oost Polder when I was a little kid. That must have been late eighties.

The more posts I read from you the more curious I am.
What is your actual nationality? Hope you don't mind for asking?

Sander



I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3237 times:

Sander - I am a citizen of the world ! I travel under a British flag of convenience, I was born in England but I am South African by naturalisation and preference. I've lived/worked all over - JNB,SWI,AMS,SYD,LHR,NCE, so it can get confusing.

I only lived in AMS in the 90's, so it must have been well after Flevoland became a province. I was still impressed by it though.


User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3227 times:

That explains a lot. First I thought you were French hence the place were you live and the flaggy in the corner. Then I thought you were a Dutchman who lives at the French Riviera. Then I read your posts in the "Best Country" thread about your live in South Africa. You have an interesting live!

Yes the whole province is below sealevel. Though surprisingly it's a beautiful but extremely flat countryside now. With (for Dutch understandings) only 2 big cities and a few towns. One of them, Almere, is growing rapidly with more than 100,000 citizens now.

Sander



I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3223 times:

I drove out to Flevoland especially, just to see it. Very flat - but then most of the Netherlands is ! Is it there that they were building the replica VOC ship, the "Batavia" - in Lelystad, which I think is in or near Flevoland ?

User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3316 posts, RR: 34
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

Sander hi,

Family roots (mother's side) are documented until the 15th C, oldest trace being a cove on the southern bank of the Schelde (verdronken land van Saeftige), where my ancestor was "running" a cabaret. The cove was called "de blijdevaarde" hence the family name became (after several church and municipality typo) "blijweert".

Had it not been for the Dutch blockading the river, I could possibly still be in the business...


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