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Gay Marriage & Adoption In Spain Soon!  
User currently offlineWolkenridder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2331 times:

The changes we've been living in Spain during the last 27 years are amazing!!!
Since the establishment of democracy, our country has been "changing its skin" dramatically, in a gorgeous way, after those awful and gray dictature decades. Nowadays we are not only the fastest-growing economy in the European Union, but also we are proud to be civilized and advanced enough to have almost approved the Gay Marriage and Adoption as from January 2005, with same rights as for heterosexuals.

As as Spanish citizen, this are great news!!!!

I just hope the Catholic Church will finally stop its stupid arguments against this saying that "gay marriage goes against nature" or that "gay adoption will cause phsycollogical problems in children". BUT DONT MAKE ME LAUGH PLEASE!!! Dont you guys think the Catholic Church is the LAST institution entitled to speak about "psycho problems in Children"??? I think the thousands of rapes and sexual aggressions Church Priests do every year to Children all arround the world causes many more and much worse psycho problems than having two dads or two moms giving lots of love!!!!

How is the situation in your countries?

[Edited 2004-07-21 22:22:07]

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

Civilized and advanced?? How about degenerated, sick and promiscuous?.
"A ver si Zapatero no es maricón".

Great news?? Qué coño??....no jodas!!

I was raised as a Catholic although I´m not a religious person so I'll leave the Cahtolic Church out of this, but they think the same way I do..and I´m sure that MORE THAN HALF of the population in Spain is not in favor of this decision...about 70% percent to be precise. Of the remaining 30%, about 20% percent didn´t give a sh*t about it and the last 5% were in favor...(los avanzados) according with some polls published during the last 2 weeks.

If letting a gay couple adopt children is to be civilised and advanced...sh*t!! I´ll be more than happy to live in an undeveloped country anytime.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineWolkenridder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2285 times:

IBERIA747,

Too bad there still are people like you in Spain. Let's hope we will do it, anyway.  Big grin

The only problem here in Spain, for our international A.netters, is that there is still a drammatic ideological difference between people in big cities like Madrid and Barcelona, and people in small cities (like IBERIA747 from Toledo) and in the country, the farms, etc. People in those small comunities very often, as you can see with the post of IBERIA747, still think like during the dictature. Too bad for them because they live "behind" the rest of the country!!!





User currently offlineJOSEMEX From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 1539 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2284 times:


>we are not only the fastest-growing economy in the European Union<

Good! Enjoy it while it lasts! (No mucho, por lo que se ve venir)


>I think the thousands of rapes and sexual aggressions Church Priests do every year to Children all arround the world causes many more and much worse psycho problems than having two dads or two moms giving lots of love!!!!<

Well, you seem to forget the fact that the overwhelming majority of all those agressions were between priests and children of the same sex...


User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2277 times:

Coño José Mari, ¿qué haces tu por aquí? ¿No estabas tu en Columbia?  Wink/being sarcastic


It's the Catholic Church IBERIA747 which always calls, or rather insults gay people. They do it in Church where they preach homosexuality is 'a disease'. Their thought and opinions are, as always, 3 centuries old. They are stuck in the Middle Ages. Why else do you think more and more Spanish people leave the Catholic church. That's why.

I've been living in this great country of yours for some 23 years now (Wolkenridder beats me in that aspect  Wink/being sarcastic), of which more than 15 years in Madrid. Taken into account that Spain is relatively a young democracy, it is incredible how fast Spain has been able to adopt itself, in every single aspect, be it democracy, cultural live, feminism, sexuality or whatever, except the Catholic Church. Everytime I listen to Spanish Bishop, I feel like he's gonna' shout ¡Viva el Caudillo! anytime.




Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineJOSEMEX From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 1539 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2272 times:



>MORE THAN HALF of the population in Spain is not in favor of this decision...about 70% percent to be precise. Of the remaining 30%, about 20% percent didn´t give a sh*t about it and the last 5% were in favor...(los avanzados) according with some polls published during the last 2 weeks.<

>Too bad for them because they live "behind" the rest of the country!!!<

Well, if the poll IBERIA747 quotes is true, then maybe you're the one who's out of touch with the rest of the country?


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

"(like IBERIA747 from Toledo)"

For your information I´ve been in Toledo for just 1 year since I work for a multi national company and I was sent to work here last year...I have spent all my life in Madrid, Zaragoza and have lived in the USA for example...a country much more advanced than ours.

You should think before writing those stupidities. First of all, you should let the effect of those f*cking things you take when going out on weekends pass before making such a fool of yourself...well, those who act and talk like you (los coleguillas gilipollas que van de duritos, sólo se meten basura y no tienen cojones para nada, no?) are exactly the only ones that think the same way you do about this ridiculous and sick decision of this so-called progressist and proactive government. That´s what I call to live behind the rest of the country.

!!Qué cojones sabes tú de la historia de España, niñato!! You are ignorant and immature enough to speak just for what you have heard from others like you...you weren´t even born when Franco died!!, and I was just 2 years old, so I don´t give a sh*t about Franco´s era, I just know how to make a difference between right and wrong.

Fastest growing economy?? "vamos arando dijo la mosca" I don´t think you are a big help for our economic development...seguro que hasta los discos los compras en "top manta"...si tienes con qué.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

If gay marriage and adoption is "avantgarde" for you and "civilzed" then I would rather have my children grow in an uncivilized country. Wolkenridder, your AntiChatholic Bigotry clouds your judgement. Most of the population in spain does not aprove of gay marrige and most of spains population thinks adoption should be for heterosexual couples. How can a child grow up in a home with two dads or two moms? it goes against common sense and nature. you, Wolkenridder, are the one that is "out of touch" with most of the population of spain.

Eso es lo que les pasa por votar por el maricon de zapatero, con el PP no tendrian este problema.


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

Wow, stay kind towards eachother guys...

I live in a country were gay-marriage is already legal for some time. I've always been a bit minded towards that decision, but if it can make people happy...

Something else is adoption: I will always vote against adoption for people of the same sex. A child needs both a mother and a father, point. A young child also isn't able to chose whether he/she agrees with an education of parents with the same sex, so it is the right of all children to grow up in a normal situation.

Unfortunately, politicians do not always listen to the people. Gay-marriage has been decided without asking our opinion, and I'm afraid that also adoption for people with the same sex will be approved, whether we agree with it or not  Sad

Frederic

PS: IBERIA747: great to see you again! Would love to discuss with you again soon - let me know if you are in Belgium!


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2242 times:

Hi Sabena690!!

Great to see you as well. I really enjoyed at the Manchester meet. Now I´m getting ready for the upcoming Amsterdam meet. Did you have a good time last Sunday spotting at MAD?.

Best regards.

Alfonso



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2239 times:



IBERIA747:

Tranquilo, colega, tranquilo.....

Who do you think you are that you can judge other posters on this board just by one (UNO) post? Look how you generalize about homosexuals and what YOU believe they do, when I bet you haven't even met one in your short live.

Luisca:

"Most of the population in spain does not aprove of gay marrige and... "


Bullsh¡t. More than half of the Spanish population does approve gay mariage. This is my source: http://www.gallup.es/notasp/nota54.asp

What's your source?





Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2233 times:

Luisca: If gay marriage and adoption is "avantgarde" for you and "civilzed" then I would rather have my children grow in an uncivilized country.

No; What´s "avant garde" and "civilized" is recognizing human rights even if ancient prejudices would demand continued discrimination.

I´d be with you if any actual damage was to be expected plausibly. But such damage does in practice only happen when having to deal with discrimination and prejudice on a daily basis coming from the likes of yourself.

The dark ages are on the retreat around the globe in most democratic societies. You cannot separate civil rights from human rights. Recognizing and overcoming prejudice is inseparable from democratic development.

I´m very glad that the chairman of the german FDP (and probable foreign minister in case of a future conservative election success) could just out himself to a general "oh, really?" response. The mayors of Berlin (SPD) and Hamburg (CDU) are also "out" without it affecting their political standing in any significant way. They´re judged by their performance first and foremost, and that´s how it´s supposed to be.

If you need to play "witch hunt" like in the old days, you´ll find plenty of third-world autocratic regimes which will welcome you with open arms. If that´s what really suits you.  Insane


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

Nice expressions! If you guys would have been posting in English, you would ALL have been banned! Big grin
(No hablo mucho, pero entiendo bastante)
Jan
Edit to correct typing error

[Edited 2004-07-21 23:45:43]

User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

"Look how you generalize about homosexuals and what YOU believe they do,"

Hello?? excuse me, but can you tell me where exactly did I say that??

" when I bet you haven't even met one (gay) in your short live."

Well, about my short liFe, I would say to you the same that´s written on some Virgin Atlantic Airlines A340-600s: "mine´s longer than yours".
About not having met a single gay during my life...well, I´m sorry to burst your bubble but I have met some of them...both men (¿?) and women (¿?).

And finally...gay marriage is one thing. If they want to live their lives that way it´s their problem...it´s child adoption by gay couples what I call disgusting, promiscuous and sick.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineWolkenridder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2216 times:

IBERIA747,

You dont have any idea who I am...your attitude just makes me laugh!!!
You remind me the angry children at school!! HE HE HE

I wont post anything else here because of course I dont pay 5 USD a month to discuss with a narrow-mind like you.

And by the way, be assured I will claim to the Forum Administrator against you because:

A) You are not expressing yourself in a civilized manner
B) You are using a lot of Spanish, which violates the rules of this web site.
C) You are insulting other members of A.net.



User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

Don´t worry...I already suggested deletion of the whole thread...

I don´t have any idea of who you are?? is that a threat?? anytime my friend!



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

I see the Spanish Inquisition is alive and "well"...!  Wink/being sarcastic

User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2188 times:

IBERIA747:

"Hello?? excuse me, but can you tell me where exactly did I say that??"

In reply number 6. Here's what you said:

"...you should let the effect of those f*cking things you take when going out on weekends pass before making such a fool of yourself...well, those who act and talk like you (los coleguillas gilipollas que van de duritos, sólo se meten basura y no tienen cojones para nada, no?)..."


"Well, about my short liFe, I would say to you the same that´s written on some Virgin Atlantic Airlines A340-600s: "mine´s longer than yours"."

That's not what your profile says, nor the fact which you admitted yourself that you were only 2 years old when Paco died


"...it´s child adoption by gay couples what I call disgusting, promiscuous and sick."

What's so disgusting and sick about it, Victor? Do you really think homosexual couples are gonna' have sex in front of their children? Did your parents have sex infront of you? Probably not so what makes you think child adoption by gay couples in disgusting? And now on to "Promiscuous". Care to explain what is "promiscuous" about gay couples adopting a child? They are couples, for Christ sake, they are married, just like heterosexuals. Why do you think they want to get married in the first place?


"I don´t have any idea of who you are?? is that a threat??"

He was simply stating that you don't know him, just as I did in reply number 10. Since you judge people without knowning them (at least two in this thread), Wolkenridder merely pointed out the 'little fact' that you don't know him. If you wouldn't have been as jumpy as you've been from reply number 1 on, we actually could have had a nice discussion. Perhaps another time...



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

Schoenorama,

If the above statement reguarding 70% of the population being against this is true, where is your oh so highly held issue of democratic government representing the people that you feverishly pitched with regard to Aznar and the Iraq war? Or is your slectivity of democracy in correlation with your personal political beliefs?


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2177 times:

Schoenorama:

About reply number 6, there´s nothing said there about homosexuals, so once again, can you tell me where did I mention and generalized about them as you say? Or is it that Wolkenridder is gay and you thought I was speaking about gays??...I never said that...I was speaking about the actual young Spanish guys, who think they are better, faster, stronger, wiser and smarter than God himself...and someone has to describe the picture for them, but from the other side. I´m tired of watching the same thing every day...they don´t respect anything or anyone...and now one of them comes here to say "this is good news for Spain"...I don´t know about the marriage polls, but about adoption, about 70% of Spanish population were against it.

It is not necessary to watch a gay couple having sex to cause psychological damage to a little kid that could be their child...the only fact of just seeing two people of the same sex being "dad" and "mom" is just not right...

Dad is a man, mom is a woman, period.

About your/my age...you said in post number 4 that you have been living for 23 years in this country "of his"...I´m sorry I read "this country of ours"...so in this case, "yours is longers than mine"...happy??



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day ago) and read 2160 times:

JAL777:

"If the above statement reguarding 70% of the population being against this is true, where is your oh so highly held issue of democratic government representing the people that you feverishly pitched with regard to Aznar and the Iraq war? Or is your selectivity of democracy in correlation with your personal political beliefs? "


It's your selectivity in believing previous posts which is the problem here. There are 2 previous posts of people claiming that the majority of the Spanish people is against this. NONE of them provide a link. In reply number 10 I said that a recent poll on this issue showed that the majority of Spanish people support both issues. I provided a link to my source, unlike the others.

Either you completely missed thread number 10 and its link to a credible source, or you are so hooked on Fox News, that you no longer know the difference between credible sources and complete and utter bullsh¡t.



IBERIA747:

"About reply number 6, there´s nothing said there about homosexuals, so once again, can you tell me where did I mention and generalized about them as you say? Or is it that Wolkenridder is gay and you thought I was speaking about gays??..."

You're right, I did believe you were talking about him and, no, I don't know if he's gay or not.

"I don´t know about the marriage polls, but about adoption, about 70% of Spanish population were against it."

That's not true, Victor. Read the link I gave above. About 25% is against it, not more.

"It is not necessary to watch a gay couple having sex to cause psychological damage to a little kid that could be their child"

There's absolutely no scientific or other evidence which even remotely suggests an adopted child suffers in any way when his/her adoption-parents are gay.

"the only fact of just seeing two people of the same sex being "dad" and "mom" is just not right..."

Why not? If the child doesn't suffer, if no psychological or other harm is done to the child, if the child can grow up in a perfectly stable family then what is not right about it?

BTW Do you work for CASA?




Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineDiamond From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3279 posts, RR: 63
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 23 hours ago) and read 2169 times:

" ... it´s child adoption by gay couples what I call disgusting, promiscuous and sick ... "

" ... If they want to live their lives that way it´s their problem ... "

" ... If letting a gay couple adopt children is to be civilised and advanced...sh*t!! I´ll be more than happy to live in an undeveloped country anytime. ... "



Iberia747: Can I help you pack? Can I make your ONE-WAY airline reservation to Morocco, Zimbabwe, Benin or other 3rd world country that is as hostile as you are?



Blank.
User currently offlineConcord977 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1261 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 22 hours ago) and read 2148 times:

" ... Don´t worry...I already suggested deletion of the whole thread..."

IBERIA747 - The whole thread is not yours to delete. The original post was a non-hostile, positive post by someone who wanted to share what he considered to be good news.

Your posts ARE worthy of deletion however. YOU have broken several forum rules ... no one else has.

You wiped your dirty shoes all over this thread. Stop complaining if you find it 'soiled'. You made it that way.



No info
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 20 hours ago) and read 2114 times:

Liberals Love freedom of speach until it is used against them, i have carefully read all of IBERIA747's posts and NONE break a single rule.



User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4537 posts, RR: 41
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 2116 times:

I would like to remind all of you to post in English only - there is nothing wrong with a quick "¡Hola!", but otherwise keep it English. I am going to delete the replies above which are in Spanish - but before I do, I want to know what was said.

Could someone please provide me with a decent translation of the following Spanish phrases used in this thread?

- "A ver si Zapatero no es maricón"
- Qué coño??....no jodas!!
- Coño José Mari, ¿qué haces tu por aquí? ¿No estabas tu en Columbia?
- los coleguillas gilipollas que van de duritos, sólo se meten basura y no tienen cojones para nada, no?
- !!Qué cojones sabes tú de la historia de España, niñato!!
- "vamos arando dijo la mosca"
- seguro que hasta los discos los compras en "top manta"...si tienes con qué.
- Eso es lo que les pasa por votar por el maricon de zapatero, con el PP no tendrian este problema.
- No hablo mucho, pero entiendo bastante

Please keep this civilised, otherwise I will be forced to lock the whole thread.

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
25 Post contains images IBERIA747 : "Iberia747: Can I help you pack?" Diamond, Oh yes, thank you. I hope there´s enough room at your house in one of those places. Concord977, Just becau
26 Post contains images Arcano : los coleguillas gilipollas que van de duritos, sólo se meten basura y no tienen cojones para nada, no?... " Qué coño??....no jodas!! !!Qué cojones
27 Post contains images Andreas : Arcano: Clearly the best post in this thread so far!! Exactly, sometimes politics have the task to bring human thinking a bit further...even if a majo
28 Gigneil : Most of the population in spain does not aprove of gay marrige and most of spains population thinks adoption should be for heterosexual couples. The o
29 Post contains images Klaus : IBERIA747: What´s the next step, releasing all paedophiles from prison and making paedophilia legal? The crucial distinction consenting adults has no
30 Greasespot : People complain and say a child needs a mother and father. In an Ideal world that is great. However this is not an ideal world. There are lots and lot
31 Cragley : I disagree with Gay marriage, but not a gay union with the same laws as marriage. As soon as you mention 'marriage', it gives all the religious croni
32 IBERIA747 : Klaus...my friend, this is not what you want but I won´t waste my time with you. Have a nice day!
33 777236ER : Iberia, you were raised by the same Catholic church who didn't do ANYTHING to stop slavery, or the holocaust. You were raised by the same Catholic chu
34 Klaus : IBERIA747: Klaus...my friend, this is not what you want< but I won´t waste my time with you. Have a nice day! I see. Not capable of backing anything
35 Post contains images Ushermittwoch : Klaus, now I finally know the second weak point of our fellow member IB.
36 Post contains images Klaus : I´ve not seen even a single strong point so far...
37 Post contains images IBERIA747 : 777236ER, Were you raised with me to be so sure of my education?? You don´t have any idea about what you are saying, pal. "Somehow I don't think the
38 IBERIA747 : Hahaha, this is getting funny!! Klaus and my dear old friend Ushermittwoch trying to play tough guys here!!...welcome "Usher"!! long time no see!!
39 Post contains images Ushermittwoch : True. Maybe due to my recent banning.
40 777236ER : Were you raised with me to be so sure of my education?? You don´t have any idea about what you are saying, pal You said you were raised Catholic. Wit
41 Klaus : IBERIA747: Hahaha, this is getting funny!! Klaus and my dear old friend Ushermittwoch trying to play tough guys here!! When you´re first making loud
42 LY7E7 : Great news for Spain. Congratulations! In my country the legislation falls behind Spain, yet the tolerance is very very high. In PA openly gay people
43 Post contains images IBERIA747 : 777236ER, Ok my friend...you keep insisting with the same. Have fun with it and enjoy your fantasy!!...you´re still too far but keep trying!!
44 777236ER : Let me ask you this, do you renouce what the Catholic church has done and taught?
45 IBERIA747 : No Klaus...I´m not trying to evade anything. It´s just that you joined this discussion a little bit late and by then I already had said what I had t
46 Post contains images Klaus : IBERIA747: No Klaus...I´m not trying to evade anything. Yes, you are: IBERIA747: What´s the next step, releasing all paedophiles from prison and mak
47 JoseMEX : >>Like it was said earlier. The church scandal was pedophilia and not homosexuality. The priest were and are not attracted to men. They were attracted
48 Post contains images JoseMEX : >With views like you have, and given the history of the Catholic church of which you like, I don't think you can call yourself civilised.
49 Post contains images Andreas : >>Like it was said earlier. The church scandal was pedophilia and not homosexuality. The priest were and are not attracted to men. They were attracted
50 JoseMEX : >I beg you pardon: So molesting male kids is not as bad as molesting female kids? And if the boys are 10 or 12 years old, it's also not so bad?
51 Krushny : Eso es lo que les pasa por votar por el maricon de zapatero, con el PP no tendrian este problema. Luisca, do you think there are no gays in PP? Did yo
52 Post contains images CPDC10-30 : An overwhelming majority of the children (and a great deal of them were teenagers rather than children) were of the male sex. All I'm saying is point
53 VirginFlyer : This is clearly not going anywhere productive, other than a serries of insults being sent back and forth in English and in Spanish. Feel free to start
54 Andreas : Jose, no need to get unfriendly, I'm just trying to find out just WHAT you meant by pointing out that Catholic priests preferably molest older male ki
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