Jmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3076 posts, RR: 20 Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1793 times:
Just a wierd idea I'm going to throw out there..........
It's no secret that many people on this forum have a deep single-minded interest in the airline industry. Has anyone heard of Asperger's Syndrome or possibly even been diagnosed with it? It's not a negative thing at all....just different. Please post your thoughts.
M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2184 posts, RR: 6 Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1737 times:
Darn...All these years I thought was was just Attitude
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
SafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 20 Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1734 times:
Asperger's syndrome is a condition where young children experience impaired social interactions and develop limited repetitive patterns of behavior. Motor milestones may be delayed and clumsiness is often observed. Language:
lucid speech before age 4 years; grammar and vocabulary are usually very good
speech is sometimes stilted and repetitive
voice tends to be flat and emotionless
conversations revolve around self
Cognition
obsessed with complex topics, such as patterns, weather, music, history, etc.
often described as eccentric
I.Q.'s fall along the full spectrum, but many are in the above normal range in verbal ability and in the below average range in performance abilities.
many have dyslexia, writing problems, and difficulty with mathematics
lack common sense
concrete thinking (versus abstract)
Behavior
movements tend to be clumsy and awkward
odd forms of self-stimulatory behavior
sensory problems appear not to be as dramatic as those with other forms of autism
socially aware but displays inappropriate reciprocal interaction
I really do not see how having a hobby - and an aviation one for that matter - and this syndrom are related.
Mats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 573 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1728 times:
jmc1975,
You have raised an interesting point. I think that most airline enthusiasts fall within the limits of normal human behavior. Here is my response both as an airplane junkie and as a healthcare provider:
Many people have undue interest or knowledge of specific, limited subjects. Sometimes this conglomerate of mental data is about sports teams, movies, and similar trivia. It can be eccentric, but not necessarily pathologic.
There are certain key features of pathologic behavior that differentiate it from "being a little weird."
For example:
- Does the behavior cause significant personal or emotional distress?
- Does the behavior interefere with one's ability to function at work, school, and social settings?
- Is the behavior a violation of a social norm?
- Is the behavior statistically infrequent?
In most cases, an airline obsession is not distressing and it does not interfere with academic, professional, or personal relationships. It's certainly not infrequent, given the number of people on this board!
Yes, I find it odd that I can tell you every airline I've flown, every airport I've visited, and the airport codes for obscure locations. It's odd, but I would not consider my abilities to be a disorder.
It's worth mentioning that Aspergers, autism, and other disorders exist on a spectrum of severity. There might be Asperger's-like components to our personalities, but these are not sufficicent to make a diagnosis.
UN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4286 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1724 times:
Jmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3076 posts, RR: 20 Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1712 times:
SafetyDude,
I'm not implying that everyone who has an interest in avaition has Asperger's Syndrome. I just believe there are a few of us on this forum who can relate to the condition. It is apparent that despite your interest in the industry, you do not have this condition. You made it clear by stating that you don't relate to the majority of the symptoms. Nevertheless, this is definately something worth looking at in greater depth.
GSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2473 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1707 times:
Jmc1975: To what end?
Looking for more & better service at my home airport.
GSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2473 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1698 times:
"Nevertheless, this is definately something worth looking at in greater depth."
Looking for more & better service at my home airport.
OB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2535 posts, RR: 9 Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1695 times:
Darn...All these years I thought was was just Attitude
I second that. What worries me is that I have a lot of those symptoms:
Abnormal nonverbal communication, such as problems with eye contact, facial expressions, body postures, or gestures.
Failure to develop peer relationships.
Scapegoating by other children as "weird" or "strange".
Lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people).
Markedly impaired expression of pleasure in other people's happiness.
Inability to return social or emotional feelings.
Inflexible about changes in specific routines or rituals.
Repetitive finger flapping, twisting, or whole body movements.
Preoccupation with restricted areas of interest (unusually narrow or unusually intense). Some examples are obsession with train schedules, phone books, stamp collecting, or other collections of objects.
Preoccupation with parts of whole objects.
Repetitive behaviors, including repetitive self-injurious behavior.
There is no general delay in language.
There is no delay in cognitive development, or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills or in curiosity about the environment.
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Sometimes
5. Sometimes
6. Sometimes
7. Yes
8. Yes
9. Yes
10. Sometimes
11. Sometimes
12. No
13. Yes
Redngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 54 Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1683 times:
Having a fascination with something outside of the "normal" hobbies doesn't necessarily mean it's a pathological obsession. For example, here in the US, planespotting is not considered a normal hobby whereas it is well accepted in Europe.
I have Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder and that definitely can cause me to get more into something than I should, but it doesn't mean that every hobby I have is due to a pathological interest.
Asperger's is a difficult diagnosis, dependent on ruling out more prevalent conditions. While you might find some insight into your own condition by studying others (as I have) it doesn't mean that you actually have it.
Brick From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1554 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1658 times:
Yep. My brother in law has been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. The guy is 31 and is still living with the parents because he just cannot function on his own (and he's tried many times with failure).
Jmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3076 posts, RR: 20 Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1657 times:
Just an observation........
The Respect Rating of those of us who can relate to the condition are relatively low. The one with the highest RR is Redngold, who suggested the topic be moved. The only reason this is on Civil Avaition, is because it is far less likely for people with Asperger's to visit the non-Aviation forum.
PanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2478 posts, RR: 13 Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1633 times:
1. Abnormal nonverbal communication, such as problems with eye contact, facial expressions, body postures, or gestures.
2. Failure to develop peer relationships.
3. Scapegoating by other children as "weird" or "strange".
4. Lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people).
5. Markedly impaired expression of pleasure in other people's happiness.
6. Inability to return social or emotional feelings.
7. Inflexible about changes in specific routines or rituals.
8. Repetitive finger flapping, twisting, or whole body movements.
9. Preoccupation with restricted areas of interest (unusually narrow or unusually intense). Some examples are obsession with train schedules, phone books, stamp collecting, or other collections of objects.
10. Preoccupation with parts of whole objects.
11. Repetitive behaviors, including repetitive self-injurious behavior.
12. There is no general delay in language.
13. There is no delay in cognitive development, or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills or in curiosity about the environment.
That kind of scares me. That is almost the perfect description of my behaviors . Especially #9. I could tell you the license plate number of any given person on my block, or the customer code for most Boeing jets, or which code Airbus uses for which engine, etc. And I don't memorize these on purpose . This thread is kind of a downer.
"I have Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder and that definitely can cause me to get more into something than I should, but it doesn't mean that every hobby I have is due to a pathological interest."
I've got OCD, too. I completely agree with you on this. Every hobby of mine isn't due to a pathological interest.
Mhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5035 posts, RR: 37 Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1611 times:
Scares me too! Though I doubt I have it, I've never been diagnosed as having anything like that.
There is one relevance to aviation I can consider. there is a boy at my school with this syndrome. He is intelligent, but has to be chaperoned, else he goes mental if something goes wrong. He has attacked students and teachers much older and bigger than him, and screams and shouts when things don't go his way. Potentially a problem in an aircraft!
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
FoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2689 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1538 times:
Good topic, and interesting to hear it brought up on this forum. I think Mats made an excellent point--it's all a matter of degrees, and to what extent one's "interest" or "hobby" interfere's with one's daily life and normal human interaction.
While most of us here--the vast majority, I'm sure--are simply interested in aviation as a hobby, I would not be surprised in the least if a few people here could be diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. It's funny, I was actually thinking of this in particular when I read a recent article in the Times about the guy who (as some New Yorkers may know) is totally obsessed with the NY subway system and has been arrested for impersonating transit workers, entering restricted areas, and even operating subways(!) The article mentioned how an obsession with railroads is a classic manifestation of the syndrome, and it occurred to me that planespotting, etc. is not all that different.
Cha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 744 posts, RR: 8 Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1482 times:
This topic is a perfect example of why many non-medical people should not self-diagnose. The internet is a great thing but with all of this information out there and available, I see people fall into these traps on a daily basis. First of all, only a residency trained, board certified Psychiatrist can accurately medically diagnose somebody with Asperger's. Period. End of story. Most of the clinicians listed on that website are clinical psychologists and even some school psychologists...while they are highly skilled, they may not be able to tease-out psychiatric conditions from medical conditions...they've never received the training!
Depending on the healthcare system where you live, there are varying degrees of difficulty to see a Psychiatrist. But to list a few symptoms/criteria on the internet to get refferals, to me, is unethical.
Bottom line, go to your doctor. I am a firm believer (outside of the Emergency Department) that the healthy (non-diseased) state is the norm.
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
Jmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3076 posts, RR: 20 Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1458 times:
Cha747,
You're not as right as you think you may be. It's not a matter of going to see a doctor...it's not a hazard to our health to have AS. It's quite obvious you don't have the condition, therefore, your conclusion of leaving it in doctors hands, is moot, and it is impossible for you to see the world through the eyes of a person with AS. People with AS are more qualified than a non-AS doctor to self-diagnose and to identify the condition in others. Again to reiterate, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to see the world as a person with Asperger's does, just as it is IMPOSSIBLE for an Asperger's sufferer to see the world the way you or the general may see it.
WGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 46 Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1436 times:
Well let's see, I guess I don't have it, based on my review of the following symptoms:
1. Abnormal nonverbal communication, such as problems with eye contact, facial expressions, body postures, or gestures.
2. Failure to develop peer relationships.
3. Scapegoating by other children as "weird" or "strange".
4. Lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people).
5. Markedly impaired expression of pleasure in other people's happiness.
6. Inability to return social or emotional feelings.
7. Inflexible about changes in specific routines or rituals.
8. Repetitive finger flapping, twisting, or whole body movements.
9. Preoccupation with restricted areas of interest (unusually narrow or unusually intense). Some examples are obsession with train schedules, phone books, stamp collecting, or other collections of objects.
10. Preoccupation with parts of whole objects.
11. Repetitive behaviors, including repetitive self-injurious behavior.
12. There is no general delay in language.
13. There is no delay in cognitive development, or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills or in curiosity about the environment.
So let's see, reviewing it:
1. No, I don't have that problem.
2. Not a problem.
3. No comment .
4. I definitely don't suffer from that, my job as librarian of the SCRVRHS requires me to point out objects of interest to other people, and I love doing it (I also do this a lot at home, on the road et cetera with anyone I am travelling with. "Ah, look, an American Airlines 767!")
5. Definitely not me; I can't enjoy myself when others around me are not.
6. Don't have it.
7. Definitely don't have that, I get bored doing the same #%!& over and over...
8. Nope...
9. No, since unlike most of you I have a life outside of the aviation sector .
10. No, and actually that seems rather weird...
11. Unless wolfing down 5 cans of Dr. Pepper a day qualifies, the answer is no.
12&13 don't seem applicable...
So I guess I don't have it...
However I'd also venture to guess that some members of this website, particularly those obsessed with certain airlines such as SQ, EK, QF et cetera, quite possibly do have it.
AgnusBymaster From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 649 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1385 times:
1. Abnormal nonverbal communication, such as problems with eye contact, facial expressions, body postures, or gestures.
2. Failure to develop peer relationships.
3. Scapegoating by other children as "weird" or "strange".
4. Lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people).
5. Markedly impaired expression of pleasure in other people's happiness.
6. Inability to return social or emotional feelings.
7. Inflexible about changes in specific routines or rituals.
8. Repetitive finger flapping, twisting, or whole body movements.
9. Preoccupation with restricted areas of interest (unusually narrow or unusually intense). Some examples are obsession with train schedules, phone books, stamp collecting, or other collections of objects.
10. Preoccupation with parts of whole objects.
11. Repetitive behaviors, including repetitive self-injurious behavior.
12. There is no general delay in language.
13. There is no delay in cognitive development, or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills or in curiosity about the environment.
1. Yes, to an extent. Have difficulty making eye contact, difficulty standing/sitting still when talking, tend to move my head around a lot while talking
2. Yes. As a kid, I interacted very well with adults and poorly with other kids. Other kids scared me and I would run and hide whenever I saw someone I knew
3. To an extent. Other kids ignored me or made fun of the way I talked because I acted mature for my age and dressed in a preppie sort of way
4. No. I love pointing out new things. If someone is having trouble, I try to help them.
5. I get uncomfortable expressing emotions when around others. But, I tend to be happy when I'm around someone who is upbeat
6. No, for the most part.
7. I am habitual at times and I have a few rituals. I adjust to new circumstances well for the short-term, but long-term adjustments are hard for me.
8. Only when nervous
9. Yes. Always been obsessed with train and airplane schedules. Never really sure why. I use to make up my own schedules as a kid. Also had an imaginary car company and an imaginary airline and a bunch of imaginary cities and countries. These were passing obesssions, but the scheduling obsession has stuck with me
10. Not sure. Don't think so
11. Airliners.net?
12/13. Language/cognitive functions developed normally, but I was really advanced in terms of cognition and verbal skills by age 7. I was frequently described as "adult-like" when I was in elementary school.
InnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 19 Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1311 times:
"there is a boy at my school with this syndrome. He is intelligent, but has to be chaperoned, else he goes mental if something goes wrong. He has attacked students and teachers much older and bigger than him, and screams and shouts when things don't go his way. "
For those of you that have seen "Rainman" this is something along those lines. There is a condition that is, non-clinically, referred to as being an "idiot-savant". People like this may have some extraordinary abilities in some ways and function far below norms in others. Many of the symptoms look like the routinized behavior of OCD (e.g. The character in Rainman's need to shop at a certain store and watch "Judge Wapner" at a certain time.").
There is a guy who is a janitor at the hospital my wife works at. He can tell you massive amounts of data about the Civil War and most Nebraska Cornhusker football statistics (the 2 aren't related!). However, ask him to reason out exactly why he needs to mop this hall first and the other one second and he will go into "reset mode".
Regarding the topic at hand, certainly the hyper-focus of some people with Aspergers could be directed at aviation and/or the airline industry. However, given these peoples' lack of communication and social skills, I would seriously doubt the likelihood of them being a participant on a board such as this.
"This topic is a perfect example of why many non-medical people should not self-diagnose. The internet is a great thing but with all of this information out there and available, I see people fall into these traps on a daily basis. First of all, only a residency trained, board certified Psychiatrist can accurately medically diagnose somebody with Asperger's. Period. End of story"
That's a statement that, in its scope, borders on the ridiculous. Sure you can say that many people shouldn't diagnose stuff based on their interpretation of a list of criteria. These people are susceptible to what is sometimes referred to as the "horoscope effect". Simply put, if you read the horoscope at the beginning of the day, you will sub-consciously make things happen to make it come true. If you read it at the end of the day, you will be able to look back and make things fit the intentionally vague wording of the horoscope predictions.
With diagnosis (of themselves or others), many people lack the experience and objectivity to accurately weigh whether or not they fit certain criteria. However, to say "all" people should shut their yap and leave it up to a doctor is just as narrow-minded. Trust me... I'm not a doctor or mental health professional and yet I know more about certain subjects than some that I have met. Also, in the end, some things are just bloody obvious. I don't need to be a doctor to diagnose myself with a broken leg.
In general, you are right... but in your all-inclusive insistence you were just as wrong as the point against which you were trying to argue.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 890 times:
RE: - Does the behavior cause significant personal or emotional distress?
- Does the behavior interefere with one's ability to function at work, school, and social settings?
- Is the behavior a violation of a social norm?
- Is the behavior statistically infrequent?
Nancy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 467 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 848 times:
Look at how many people are absolutely obsessed by sports, having a strong interest in something really isn't an indication of disability. I had four verbal students with PPD (Pervasive Developmental Delay which encompasses Autism ,Asperger's, Rhett's and PPD_NOS) two boys were absolutely obsessed with sports, one was completely focused on Emiril (the chef) and the girl was really into Harry Potter. People with Asperger's Syndrome are interested in all sorts of different things and one person with Asperger's can be as different from someone else with Asperger's as any other 2 people are. There are certain traits that indicate a cause for concern, extreme difficulty with transition or change, inability to withstand certain sensations (ex fluorescent lights) delayed social abilities : look at the above. The thing to be careful of is that one thing can look a lot like another to an untrained person, even to a highly trained person it can be difficult to figure out exactly what is going on. If you know a child whose behavior gives you a reason to believe that he or she may have PPD, try to get the child an evaluation by a trained, professional (psychologist or psychiatrist) who has experience with PPD. There are many interventions that can be of great help, but the kid needs an accurate diagnosis. There are also certain things that only a doctor can rule out, such a seizures or hearing impairments. It is important to find out what is going on so that you can address it appropriately.
That being said, having PPD isn't a sentence to a lonely, unfulfilled life. Many people with PPD are gainfully employed in careers that use their strengths, and they have friends and families. Most, however, do need some additional help to get to that point.
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. Especially #9. I could tell you the license plate number of any given person on my block, or the customer code for most Boeing jets, or which code Airbus uses for which engine, etc. And I don't memorize these on purpose 
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