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Only Three Days For Venezuelan Referendum  
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 827 times:

Next Sunday maybe define the future of Venezuela. Their people must decide about Hugo Chavez to stay or to go.

I know that this topic has been treated before but their importance is big, among many other thing, because the next election process in the U.S. and the rough relations Bush-Chavez.

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUssherd From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 821 times:

If I were in Venezuela I'd be voting for Chávez to go. No doubt about it.

I have to admit that when Chávez came to power I had hoped that things in Venezuela would change for the better. While I never thought that the the man himself had the qualities to be a good president, I'd hoped that he'd have the sense to surround himself with good people who could help in the governance of the country. Well... that certainly didn't happen!

At the same time, I don't believe that getting rid of Chávez will cure the country's woes. Likely, we'll just end up where we were before the 'Revolución Blovariana', with the old corrupt & nepotistic political elite back in office, looking after their own interests while Venezuela stagnates. Whatever happens, Chávez will leave a legacy of inter-class conflict that may linger for years to come.

...... evidently, I'm not in a very positive mood today  Sad



Cada loco con su tema...
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 817 times:

Ussherd

Everybody wants the best for Venezuela.

Let's trust in Democracy and Venezuelan voters.


User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 811 times:

Who is the alternative?
Does anyone really believe they could do better?

" Whatever happens, Chávez will leave a legacy of inter-class conflict that may linger for years to come."
While Chávez' policies were sometimes debatable I think that whoever will succeed him will probably cause even more grave class conflicts. Ever wondered why the economic elites tried a coup few years ago? They had a hard time under Chávez.



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlineUssherd From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 804 times:

Ever wondered why the economic elites tried a coup few years ago? They had a hard time under Chávez.

The economic elites in Venezuela are as rich as they ever were, and always will be. Certainly, having Chávez in power didn't suit them at all, and they want to see Chávez removed from power simply because he interferes with their interests; namely, the acquisition of more and more wealth. This is clearly seen in the attitude of the higherarchy in PDVSA (the state oil company), who clearly think of the company as their own personal money making machine. The losers are the poor, who are poorer than they ever were; and the once fairly sizable middle class, who now see themselves sliding into poverty. Over the past few years I've noticed the development of very real feeling of resentment against people who have managed to achieve a measure of prosperity. I'm not talking about the rich elites; I’m talking about the professional classes, people who have gone to university, have managed to find a good job and have worked hard to get ahead. The bulk of the (poor) population now regards this middle class with resentment; the thinking being that, because they have prospered, they must be capitalist parasites who have acquired wealth at the expense of the poor. The problem is further compounded by the fact that a sizable proportion of small businesses and large farms are in the hands of immigrants or first generation Venezuelans. So... not only have the poor of Venezuela been raped by evil capitalists… they have been raped by evil, foreign, imperialist capitalists. You get the picture?! That’s the legacy that I'm talking about… an ingrained ‘us against them’ mentality that has the potential to turn things very ugly.

As to who could replace Chávez… I really don’t know. I don’t think the opposition have a charismatic leader who would be capable of (a) uniting the various anti-Chávez factions who make up the opposition, and (b) uniting the country as a whole. Having said that, I do think that getting rid of Chávez is a must. While the traditional political elites were corrupt to the core, they at least knew what they were doing. Chávez and his cronies are not only corrupt in equal measure, but are completely inept as well.




Cada loco con su tema...
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 792 times:

Su hora de liberacion esta cerca.

The time of your liberation is close

I am praying that Sunday will be the end of the Chavez Dictatorsrhip


User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 781 times:

"That?s the legacy that I'm talking about? an ingrained ?us against them? mentality that has the potential to turn things very ugly."

My prediction is things will turn ugly, and not only in Venezuela.  Sad

Another thing I'd like to ask: is there something like a "moderate" opposition in sight? I mean those who tried the failed coup de etat were hardline capitalists from the far right I was told, and I bet they are eager to fill the power gap quickly if Chavez is removed from power.

Y Luisca esta loco, como siempre. *shaking head*
After all, IF the Venezuelians decide to remove Chávez they do so at their own will and with their own power, right?



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlineWhitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 772 times:

someone on the left of US politics sent me an email yesterday about something like $60m of US taxpayers money being spent here to bring down Chavez.

This is shameful if true. Why should the US want to spend their tax dollars bringing down an elected government? Do those US taxpayers care that their hard earned bucks are being spent to deny democracy? Venezuela elected Chavez. US tax dollars are being used to unseat Chavez. Is that right?


User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 766 times:

"Why should the US want to spend their tax dollars bringing down an elected government?"

Well, it's not the US in general, but the guys who run the country at the moment. The conservatives of Venezuela are the ones running most of the oil industry, AFAIK, and the oil industry of Venezuela has close ties with the oil industry of the US, and the .... you go figure.

I haven't heard of those $60m yet, but it's an open secret that the US gov and it's secret services played a big role in the failed coup in 2002.

Nevertheless it will be interesting how the Venezuelians will decide today.
Although I am a bit sceptical of the legitimacy of a recall vote of a (twice) democratically elected head of state, wether one likes him or not.



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlineUssherd From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 765 times:

According to the CNE (electoral council), the preliminary results show 51% of voters in favour of Chávez and 41% against. These results still have to be validated, but it looks like Chávez is staying.


Cada loco con su tema...
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 750 times:

Really sad results for the Venezuelan opposition.

I hope the best for Venezuela, but unfortunately don't predict any good by the moment.


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