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Olympic Spirit?  
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1339 times:

This doesn't let me rest, and I want to hear what people from, France, GB & the USA think about the case, as well as neutral people:

The German military riders team won the team gold medal, and Bettina Hoy won the single gold medal on wednesday. However, the "ground jury" (some sort of technical officials) decided that she should get 14 seconds.

Here's what happened:

They were doing Jump riding (I don't know the correct term, but you know what I mean) and when a rider starts he has 45 seconds time to ride around the course before he has to start the actual competitive riding. The time starts when a rider crosses an imaginery line before the first obstacle. Then on a display the timer starts to count the seconds a rider needs for the course. Now Bettina Hoy accidently crossed the start line during her "warm-up riding". It was absolutely obvious that she didn't intend to start, as she was riding very slow and not in the direction of the first obstacle. The timer that counts the seconds did not start, leaving no chance for her to realize that the time was already counting! Now she continued her warm-up for another 14 seconds (perfectly within the 45 seconds she has for warm-up) before she crossed the start line again, this time fast and approaching the first obstacle. She went on to an amazing performance winning Germany the gold medal for the team and making the ground for her own single medal.



Now afterwards, France, Great Britain and the United States appealed against the result, because of this incident. The ground jury accepted and denied Germany the gold medals.

Germany appealed against this decision at some sort of technical commision, saying that due to the timer not starting Hoy had no chance to realize the mistake and start asap (what she would obviously would have done had she known that the time was already counting) because the display still showed the warm-up countdown. The appeal was upheld again and Germany again was 2 gold medals richer.



Now France, Great Britain and the United States appealed again, and the CAS decided that the technical commitee did not have the right to decide on this issue and again made France in the team and a GB rider olympic champions.

Again, Bettina Hoy did not have any advantage because of the start!

This leaves Bettina Hoy and the German team, who have won the gold medals in a sportive way and simply were the best this time with no medals.

Not only do I think that the decision is wrong (because the ground jury made a mistake themselves and you can't punish an athlete for a mistake of the judges), but I also think that the appeals from France, Great Britain and the United States are against the Olympic Spirit. They happened to be worse than the German riders this time, and even if you were the favorite you should accept it. If the Germans had have any advantage, the appeal would be perfectly ok with me - but not like this.

I don't understand how you can be proud of a medal you didn't win?

While the US officials showed at least some symphaty and acknowledged that the situation was bad and that they did not want a medal ceremony, the French officials acted as if Bettina Hoy had shot their horses and obviously that they won the gold medal in a perfectly right way. Pathetic.

Just a little bit more food for thought: When the American swimmer Aaron Peirsol was disqualified (the DQF was later taken back), the Austrian Silver Medal winner Markus Rogan said that he doesn't want a gold medal he didn't win and can't be happy about winning this was. I think, this should be the Olympic Spirit.


What do you think about it?

88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1329 times:

While the US officials showed at least some symphaty and acknowledged that the situation was bad and that they did not want a medal ceremony, the French officials acted as if Bettina Hoy had shot their horses and obviously that they won the gold medal in a perfectly right way. Pathetic

Please don't put the US and the French points of view together on this.

[Edited 2004-08-22 15:26:10]


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1325 times:

Even worse:

The French denied the usual shakehands after the event...my reaction would have been:

Spit in their frigging faces!!!!!  Angry  Angry  Angry  Angry  Angry

Sorry but this was outrageous..Germany won fair and square and they were the best..obviously an unacceptable fact for some so-called "sportsmen"  Angry

And the Brit captain even stated openly in a TV interview: I want to take advantage by all means, no matter who was the best during competition.

Dear Brits: You are currently building a tremendous reputation for being one of the sorest losers ever in sports history...soon you'll be co-No. 1 together with the Frogs, your buddies in mind anyway!  Angry

Seriously: I hope very much you won't make it to Germany 2006, I really do, just to watch you whine and scream in the streets..that would be the correct and well-fitting revanche for this!!

And for those interested in technicalities: What Olympic champion (she is...NO ONE ELSE!!!) Bettina Hoy did happens all the time and never was a problem, because it does not give an advantage whatsoever...and IF there was a mistake it was the guys working the clock, but there ARE rules that in such a case you may never ever hand over responsability to the rider. Period!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1316 times:

Personally I think the Olympic spirit is gone. It's too political IMO.
And a case like this and that american swimmer case totally blows everything.
Off course cheating is wrong, but none of these cases was actually cheat. It was just simple accidents. And you shouldn't be disqualified for accidents.

Why just not accept that you came in as number 2 and stop looking for cases to get the gold medal winner disqualified.

This also reminds me of the Aussie swimming qualifications, where Ian Thorpe got disqualified in the 400m something for falling in the water before starting. And the winner actually gave up his place to Thorpe, because he knew that Thorpe were the better swimmer, and would have won the qualification if he competed.

That is true sportsman ship and all my respect to that guy!!  Big thumbs up


[Edited 2004-08-22 15:42:46]

User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

Should I manage to turn up I'll buy you a beer QI...just for this post!!

Oh and should by chance Olivier le Page and that other sick F#@k read this...should I ever meet you face to face...I'll throw you on the ground and pi@s in yours!!!!

And to the Brits...you are now level with these cheating intrigating monkeys...what you always wanted to achieve in life!!! Congrats!!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1308 times:

Well, thank you Andreas Big grin

For once I actually used my brain for something good and I was awarded a beer for it as well.
Damn I should use my brain for more good things in the future then  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

There hasn't been a non-political olympics since the 1936 games.

Then came the Hitler games, and then the cold war games.....There was some hope from Barcalona on but it wasn't to pass.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

Andreas: Oh and should by chance Olivier le Page and that other sick F#@k read this...should I ever meet you face to face...I'll throw you on the ground and pi@s in yours!!!!

Now that would show them what the "olympic spirit" is all about, wouldn´t it...?  Wink/being sarcastic

I agree it´s a sad state of affairs and those who are pushing forwards no matter what should be ashamed of themselves. The judges made a mistake. Can they be disqualified as well, by the way...? Big grin


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1297 times:

Actually the three that scored the Mens Gymnasitics competition have been.

The two that screwed up and their supervisor.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1294 times:

Klaus this is all about revenge...no teaching anymore!!! When I heard about that ridiculous verdict, I said a few things that were much worse, trust me...it had something to do with the language these morons would be speaking right now  Big grin!!!

I never said I'm a good or even nice guy, I'm a mean, greedy, heartless, dark-blue-suit-wearing, French-face-spitting, cheese-eating surr...oh no stop, these last two don't belong here, but the rest is true  Big grin

QI: Well done...since I probably won't make it next weekend I count on you to forget this during your drinking spree all over the capital Big grin Big grin Big grin



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

L-188: Actually the three that scored the Mens Gymnasitics competition have been.

So there´s still hope for justice...  Acting devilish


Andreas: Klaus this is all about revenge...no teaching anymore!!!

Okay. So good that we´ve talked about it.  Wink/being sarcastic


Andreas: I never said I'm a good or even nice guy, I'm a mean, greedy, heartless, dark-blue-suit-wearing, French-face-spitting, cheese-eating surr...oh no stop, these last two don't belong here, but the rest is true

Sure. We always knew that.  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1272 times:

So there´s still hope for justice

Yup, maybe some day Roy Jones and the 1972 US Basketball team will get their gold medals.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1270 times:

Good!!! Remember...Darmstadt is not THAT far....  Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin

And as for the Brits...I have a few on the team...afraid you guys will have to pay the price!!  Acting devilish  Acting devilish  Acting devilish

Oh and Kirkie, should you read this: Flooding England AND France is a good idea...RIGHT NOW would be a good time...if you need help...just holler!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1258 times:

L-188,

And hopefully that american boxer who "lost" in Seoul will get his too. But I doubt that will ever happen in my lifetime.



User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1252 times:

That would be Roy Jones...


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1247 times:

Oh... damn.. Was his name Roy Jones.. I didn't know his name. I only remember what happened.
I thought you ment that Roy Jones was the name of the coach of the basketball team.

Edit: But thanks for clearing that out for me.  Big thumbs up

[Edited 2004-08-22 16:38:17]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1240 times:

Andreas: Good!!! Remember...Darmstadt is not THAT far....

Woo-hoo! I´m so scaredBig grin


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1237 times:

You should be...you are not by any chance Olivier le Page...?  Big grin

Gah! Just typing this name and I feel like going to the toilet....  Acting devilish



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1233 times:

Andreas: You should be...you are not by any chance Olivier le Page...?

I don´t think so... no, I checked again. Phew!  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1231 times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/equestrian/3578698.stm

She had 45 seconds to start - not to warm up - after the bell, and crossed the line. Crossing the line means you start, end of. Whether the counter started or not is moot, and clearly those much more higher up in the sport than us agree.


User currently offlineGman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1221 times:

I don't know what you guys are moaning about anyway it's not a real sport.

Any sport where the winner is decided by a group of judges instead of athletes running faster or scoring more goals, can not be classified as sport as far as Im concerned. That includes silly sports like dressage, gymnastics, figure skating, synchronized swimming and all others where a panel of judges decide the winner based on such small techincal differences that are not even visible to the watching public, unless someone falls on their head.

As 777236ER has said, it's quiet clear in the rules of the sport that it is 45 seconds to start, if you cross the line after 5 seconds then you have started. She broke the rules therefore doesn't deserve the gold medal. The question should be can you proud of medal not won by following the rules of the sport?



British Airways - The Way To Fly
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1220 times:

777: if you have no idea what you're talking about, better be quiet!!!

Or even better, read the regulations AND the decisions that have been made up to now (quite easy..this happens all the time)...IF there was a mistake, it was the guys at the clock...Hoy did take NO advantage and the clock, the only info she gets about what happens, was still counting backwards...meaning she has not started yet and needs to do so during the period of time shown on that clock!

Fire that guy if you like...would be another nice example for sore losership on the Frog-Brit side, but Hoy did well AND SHE WON...and Law lost it and should be deeply ashamed..but obviously that's not in the system of this "gentleman".

Hoy and the Germans ARE Olympic champions!!

And for the sorest losers on this planet: Why don't you just make a habit out of staying away from sport's events held in Germany for the next 50 or 60 years, huh?
2006 would be a brilliant year to start with this habit!!!


btw: I've read the comments on BBC and they VERY CAREFULLY tiptoe around the question about what really happened.

So no bad blood from the Brit side in this disastrous affair?? Well..nice to hear, but there will be bad blood from the German side...and deservedly so.
This was a THEFT! And Britain has again shown what unbelievably sore losers they are!!! I always knew that about the French...good to know who's there partner (and brother) in crime



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1207 times:

777: if you have no idea what you're talking about, better be quiet!!!

I'm only saying what news sources say.

Or even better, read the regulations AND the decisions that have been made up to now (quite easy..this happens all the time)...IF there was a mistake, it was the guys at the clock...Hoy did take NO advantage and the clock, the only info she gets about what happens, was still counting backwards...meaning she has not started yet and needs to do so during the period of time shown on that clock!

The mistake clearly lies on her part. She crossed the start line after the bell.

Fire that guy if you like...would be another nice example for sore losership on the Frog-Brit side, but Hoy did well AND SHE WON...and Law lost it and should be deeply ashamed..but obviously that's not in the system of this "gentleman".

Hoy and the Germans ARE Olympic champions!!


No they're not.

And for the sorest losers on this planet: Why don't you just make a habit out of staying away from sport's events held in Germany for the next 50 or 60 years, huh?
2006 would be a brilliant year to start with this habit!!!

This is a technical fault in a technical event. Rules are rules. She crossed the start line after the bell and within 45 seconds - she STARTED, whether the clock started or not.

And once again I'd like to point out, those senior in the sport agree.


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1196 times:

SORRY? Those senior on the BRIT side agree...which is rather poor, too.

Quite obviously the British media...as usual, left out those opinions that were a bit critical with Brit behaviour here.

Instead of pointing out that this was a technical fault, that CANNOT be used to the disadvantage of the competitor, they agree in this medal robbery, based on a completely useless formalism that goes strictly AGAINST the idea of teh regulation! ...very funny to hear this from a country that uses the principle "substance over form"...very funny....

Again read and understand instead of citing sources who do NOT cover the relevant angles such as BBC world!

Hoy and the German team were fastest, made the fewest mistakes...so WHO is champion?? Those who lied and cheated...congratulations Frogs and Brits!

Be happy with your theft, be proud with your behaviour after the competition, DENYING the shakehands (that goes for the Forgs only...speaks for itself!)...choke on it!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1190 times:

"She had 45 seconds to start - not to warm up - after the bell, and crossed the line. Crossing the line means you start, end of. Whether the counter started or not is moot, and clearly those much more higher up in the sport than us agree."

And what are those 45 seconds for? They are there so that the horse can ride a few metres on the course to get a feeling for the ground again etc. - What's that called if not warm up?

And actually, those higher in the sport did not agree - they took the decision back. The ones who made the decisions in the first place were those who made the mistake with the clock.

Comparision with football:
A team attacks, the linesmen raises his flag, the referee whistles and the defending team stops to play because of offside. Meanwhile the attackers score a goal and afterwards someone tells the referee that it wasn't actually offside. Does the goal count or not? Of course not, because you can't blame the defending team for not defending when the referees made a mistake.


25 777236ER : SORRY? Those senior on the BRIT side agree...which is rather poor, too. Those senior in the sport, who obviously upheld the appeals by the other natio
26 Andreas : Racko...good point! ...besides the point about those "higher up in the sport than us" is about as risiculous as it gets! So if someone up the ladder s
27 Andreas : And just for you 777, because you seem to have a grave problem with reading today: The highest court for the equestrian event did give the medal to Ho
28 777236ER : Two posts of nonsense with nothing at all to do with the actual infringement. Do you agree that the German made a mistake?
29 Andreas : ????????? And what exactly are you talking about?? Did you follow the event at all? No, I don't think so.... Ah I see, you're talking about YOUR posts
30 777236ER : And what exactly are you talking about?? Did you follow the event at all? No, I don't think so.... Which has what to do with my post? The German made
31 Andreas : Yet again, the Olympic officials disagree. Presumably they have more grounding in this sport than you, no? And again you prove impressively that you d
32 Andreas : The rules clearly state once you cross the start line the run is under way. Excellent, brilliant, spot on! So tell me, Mr. Genius, WHY didn't the cloc
33 MD-90 : Why couldn't she have ridden again? Remember Tonya Harding complaining to the judges that one of her skate laces or something was broken, and she got
34 Post contains links 777236ER : Excellent, brilliant, spot on! So tell me, Mr. Genius, WHY didn't the clock start running for Hoy? In fact, it continued to count backwards! I'm still
35 Andreas : 777...you are starting to get really boring...you are citing BRIT sources and BRIT officials (and the same all over again), they say the Germans made
36 Gman94 : You guys questioned the Olympic Spirit going missing with this incident, but what you are actually saying is that you should win at any and all costs.
37 Racko : Even when one would say that the mistake of the officials isn't important (which it is, imho), I still say that it is against the Olympic spirit to ap
38 777236ER : 777...you are starting to get really boring...you are citing BRIT sources and BRIT officials (and the same all over again), they say the Germans made
39 LH526 : At least we germans have the pride of being the bst in this competition. Although the french and brits won the medal, all they got was a medal with sh
40 MD-90 : This is plain insulting now. ROTFLMAO!! 777 telling ANYONE that they're insulting...coming from him that's hilarious. Anyway, yes she broke the rules,
41 G-KIRAN : Oh and should by chance Olivier le Page and that other sick F#@k read this...should I ever meet you face to face...I'll throw you on the ground and pi
42 777236ER : Anyway, yes she broke the rules, but the clock was inaccurate. If the clock had been run correctly, then she would deserve the penalty for going over
43 Andreas : All I read from our Brit members here just shows one thing: You cannot prove she made a mistake because she DIDN'T make one: The clock didn't start to
44 Post contains images GKirk : Everyone knows that its embarrassing to the Olympics if any German wins anything so, the result was rightly changed
45 Post contains images Andreas : Kirkie...that coming from a Scot seems....not insulting at all, given your brilliant olympic/WC/EC track record btw: How about that flooding? Are you
46 Sebolino : The reaction of Racko and Andreas shows very clearly how allies can turn into ennemies in no time (at least in people's mind). Andreas: And to the Bri
47 Banco : Hmmm, funny how not so long ago all the Germans were complaining at how the English didn't like the verdict of the referee in Euro 2004, and how we sh
48 LH526 : The rules, the rules, the rules . Oh c'mon guys! I would have voted against germany as well if she made the accident in full knowledge. But as repeate
49 Andreas : Seb...I'm talking about the FRENCH EQUIPE!!!!! Not the French people...so for Christ's sake, calm down! As for the French equipe on the other hand...m
50 Post contains images QIguy24 : Andreas, Relax a little bit. Take a deep breath We don't want you yo get a stroke. There is no one in here who is better to bash England and Kirkie th
51 Post contains images Andreas : QI...don't you worry...WOW!!! That's the second post today indicating that I'm needed...OH LORD, someone needs me, thank you ohh THANK YOU *falling-to
52 Post contains images QIguy24 : What was the first post I needed you in? Well I guess that Middle East Airlines sucks just as much as me when it comes to bash brits But I will call t
53 Racko : C'mon, I've stated my opinion, how exactly does that make me an enemy, Sebolino? Or a "toddler with nappies on my head", G-KIRAN? And again: Those hig
54 Post contains images Sebolino : OK, let's make a deal. The Germans win, and the French keep the gold medal (OK, that's not funny ...)
55 Post contains images Andreas : Other deal: Germany wins AND gets the medals...the Brits don't come to Germany in 2006, and THEN we forget about that pissing business...how's that so
56 Post contains images GKirk : Stop whining you German cheese eating surrender monkeys They broke the rules so therefore are disqualified, got it?
57 Post contains images Andreas : Kirkie shut up! Scots are not part of the olympic community...and in football you just got shot out by Loddar's friends of the Hungarian opera, so why
58 777236ER : Other deal: Germany wins AND gets the medals...the Brits don't come to Germany in 2006, and THEN we forget about that pissing business...how's that so
59 Paulc : Why did Hoy cross the start line then if she did not intend to start ? I find it difficult to believe that a rider of Hoy experience does not know whe
60 Post contains images Andreas : paulc...why am I not a bit surprised...? 1. I was extremely pissed off by the way the FRENCH acted, not a word was lost about the British team members
61 Post contains images QIguy24 : Andreas, What is with you and the Middle East Airlines today? You keep mention them all the time 7. YOU want to tell MEA Middle East Airlines (Lebanon
62 Andreas : QI...you got to the point...the source of all problems is to be found in the Middel East...didn't you know that?
63 Post contains images QIguy24 : Andreas, Yes I did. But I was still shocked that they were behind all this. I thought it was the frenchies and the brits.
64 Banco : Andreas, you say "she did not break a rule to gain advantage" and I think everyone agrees with that. As I understand it (and I ain't no expert!), that
65 Post contains images Andreas : Banco I know this but let me point out what the CEO of the FEI (a Swede!) said in this affair (unfortunately I only have a German source): Rules were
66 Banco : I'd say only one thing to that, Andreas. Had the original decision stood to give her the penalty points, you can bet your life the German Olympic mana
67 Andreas : I wouldn't bet on that, sorry to contradict! They would have taken it to the FEI, correct...but if they'd lost it there I'm quite sure that would have
68 777236ER : Hoy crossed the line, yes quite obviously, this happens all the time, but when she looked up at the watch she saw it counting backwards...and that is
69 G-KIRAN : G-KIRAN: Stealing 2 gold medals you do not deserve is a severe thing...just imagine it would have been the other way round: England, and not only the
70 Post contains images Paulc : along with toys out of the pram Hoy broke the rules and got punished - it is as simple as that. I agree she got no advantage by crossing the line but
71 Post contains images Andreas : Indeed paul...Germans usually make it to the semifinals or even further up the road, at least most of the times...when did England achieve this? 1996.
72 Post contains images Gman94 : Indeed paul...Germans usually make it to the semifinals or even further up the road, at least most of the times...when did England achieve this? 1996.
73 Post contains images Andreas : Gman...when playing against you guys from the island we use all (!!!) means to win, even unfair ones like penalties (we know of course that the nerves
74 Paulc : All teams that qualify for a world cup should play all the other teams in a league with the top team being 'world champions' unlike the current system
75 Post contains images Banco : Nah. That'd be boring. Anyway, it'd remove the huge pleasure all football fans derive when the Scots manage to actually qualify for a competition and
76 Post contains images Andreas : And don't forget: they don't whine as much as the English players...well certain English players, and their hairdos are a lot prettier than that queer
77 Post contains images Banco : Andreas, I do believe you have abrogated any right whatsoever to complain about English footballers whining. I shall cut-out-and-keep your truly awe-i
78 Post contains images Andreas : Please keep to the facts: As opposed to YOUR usual whingeing when it comes to English football about how good your players are and how unsuccessful yo
79 Post contains images Paulc : are you related to svetlana Khirkinov who is also throwing her toys around? You seem to take great pleasure in bashing the brits and french over this
80 Post contains images Andreas : Yep, that's why kicked him Bashing Americans...no, not funny really, first of all, they love to do that to themselves, so I don't want to get involved
81 Banco : Well, to be fair Andreas, you weren't particularly funny about the three day eventing either. You just came across as wild-eyed, hair askew, ranting "
82 Post contains images Andreas : Hey hey hey! I know my "th" quite well, so don't get funny on me, Brittiboy! Besides sometimes I just love to hack a few things to pieces, and if ther
83 Post contains images Banco : Doesn't bother me mate. I just look at the Gold medal our man won, your girl lost, and laugh. Actually, the only surprise to me was that the French we
84 Post contains images Andreas : What does bother me a little bit is the fact, that there is virtually not one single day in Athens without a bloody scandal that involves gold medals,
85 Banco : I don't think it'll be the slightest problem you know. They all know each other extremely well, and I don't think there's any bitterness between the B
86 Post contains images Andreas : I wasn't talking about the teams, you know... I just want to believe that it is the same in Germany which sort of explains why those golden days are o
87 Ryanb741 : I can't be bothered to read all the posts so here's my observations. Firstly it was very harsh, Hoy broke a rule and was disqualified but it hardly ga
88 Post contains images Andreas : Ryan: That was yesterday, we are now back on track bashing the French in general and the English football team! All other things have been discussed
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