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Israeli Officials Plan More West Bank Settlements  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8292 posts, RR: 26
Posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1205 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/23/mideast/index.html

As many as 1500 housing units are now planned by officials seeking to pressure Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan into nonexistence.

Wonderful... Nuts


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1151 times:

As sad as this my sound, I am not surprised as this is what one comes to expect unfortunately.

Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineJutes85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1141 times:

Old News.

The Israeli's gotta live somewhere.


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1132 times:

It doesn't matter. The settlements are in areas that are to become part of Israel once the security fence is complete. If they were building settlements deep in the West Bank, in areas that Israel plans to give up in the near future, now that would be idiotic.

And besides, Sharon is only going forward with this to get the support of the Right wingers--He needs their support to pull out of Gaza and most of the WB.

Remeber that Sharon will always be a military general. He will find a way, any way, to accomplish his goals, as he ALWAYS has.


User currently offlineDamirc From Slovenia, joined Feb 2004, 726 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

The Israeli's gotta live somewhere.

So what if the land is currently Palestinian. It's just more landgrab. Come on - can you really be so unrealistic and claim that this is legally and morally defensible?

It doesn't matter. The settlements are in areas that are to become part of Israel once the security fence is complete.

And that currently are not a part of Israel - right?

D.


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1113 times:

So what if the land is currently Palestinian. It's just more landgrab. Come on - can you really be so unrealistic and claim that this is legally and morally defensible?

Absolutely. The land is not Palestinian. It is disputed. Why not build more houses in settlements that Israel has no intention of getting rid of, like the 1,001 houses Israel announced the other day? Even President Bush has anckowledged that Israel will not give up these settlements--It is as unrealistic a goal as Israel giving up Jerusalem.

I seriously doubt the houses mentioned in the article above will be built though. It is most likely a political move by Sharon. As I said above, Israel would be dammed stupid to build new settlements deep in the West Bank, since they are planning on pulling out. I'll be surprised if Israel builds these houses just to abandon them soon after.

And that currently are not a part of Israel - right?

It is a disputed territory. No different than many of the territorial disputes that exist in this world. Even Resolution 242 says that final agreements will likely see an adjustment of borders. Only Israel has to decide things by themselves, since Palestinians are unable/unwilling to compromise. The security fence will establish what will likely become the final border with the Palestinains--Israel will be through with them, the Palestinians will no longer be able to attack Israel, and there will be "peace". You and other "Pro-peace" people should be happy as your long awaited "peace" will soon be achieved.


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1108 times:

I was mistaken in Reply 3. The settlements in the article above are not in areas that will be under the blanket of the security fence. I was thinking of the 1,001 houses announced the other day.

User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1102 times:

Oh, and since we are on this topic, here is a good excerpt.

"I was shocked to see President Jimmy Carter walk up to [Michael] Moore in front of a gargantuan television audience and give him a warm handshake and then sit next to him for the duration of Bill Clinton's speech to the convention," Jewish rabbi, talk show host, columnist and author Shmuley Boteach wrote in The Jerusalem Post July 28.

Boteach, a former rabbi to Jewish students at Oxford University, while doing his radio show from Boston's Fleet Center, "found myself sitting 10 feet from Michael Moore. He was chatting with journalists, so I decided to ask if he would agree to be a guest on my radio show. I wanted to debate him about his Bush-hating Fahrenheit 9/11. But when he saw me approaching, he dismissed me with a single, condescending flick of his finger as if I were a bug crawling up his arm."

Boteach wondered if Moore's attitude "had something to do with my yarmulke and beard" or his "hatred of Israel," as Boteach put it, evidenced when Moore identified Israel as one of the three "epicenters of evil" in the world in a New York Times article in June.

A few moments later, Boteach took note of the embrace between the former president and the raging filmmaker.

"Here was a former president lending his stature to a man who wrote on his Web site last April that America brings immeasurable misery and sadness to the world," Boteach wrote in his Jerusalem Post column. "... Supporters of Israel need to question whether they wish to support a party that honors men like these -- Moore was positively mobbed by the Democrats wherever he went -- and whose presidential candidate, John Kerry, said last year that he might send Jimmy Carter to the Middle East as his personal envoy."

Boteach wrote that he fears "the increasing anti-war posture of the Democratic Party ... will ultimately turn against Israel."

"America is hated by the nations of the world almost entirely due to its support of Israel and the war in Iraq," the rabbi continued. "The United States is the great champion of Israel and is therefore loathed by a world that despises the Jewish state. Likewise, the U.S. has incurred the wrath of the world by refusing to turn a blind eye toward Arab tyranny as embodied in Saddam Hussein.

"When Democratic Party leaders demand that George Bush be dumped so that America can be loved again by the French and the Germans, they are well aware that the only way that's going to happen is by a radical change in American foreign policy. That would take us back to Bill Clinton's days, when America was neutral on the Arab-Israeli conflict and when it largely turned a blind eye to Arab tyranny. ...

"The Democratic Party would have us believe that there is something wrong in having the whole world oppose you. But the Jews have long known that there is honor in it as long as you are right and they are wrong," Boteach wrote. "When all the world closes its eyes to slaughter and tyranny, Winston Churchill taught us in his opposition to Britain's policy of appeasement that the noble dare not close their eyes as well -- even if it means losing the 'respect' of the world."


User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1100 times:

I wanted to stay neutral in threads like this. And I will try to stay as neutral as possible.

Wasn't it just about a half a year ago Sharon told the whole world that he wanted to remove settlements, just to show his willingnes in the peace process?
I can't see why he build new than. Isn't it a little bit of Flip Flopping?


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1091 times:

Wasn't it just about a half a year ago Sharon told the whole world that he wanted to remove settlements, just to show his willingnes in the peace process?
I can't see why he build new than. Isn't it a little bit of Flip Flopping?


It is politics. Many rightwing Jews do not want to back down in the face of terror; many of them see a religious connection to the land. Sharon needs broad support for his plans to pullout; This plan for new housing should quiet their fears....When in reality the houses will most likely never be built. Many of them recognize this as a political move and are complaining.


User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1088 times:

Rj,
I know it's politics. And I agree with you on this point. I just think it a drastic step to take. It has really pissed of the arab world. And especially since the US has granted Sharons will. I'm afraid that this will breed more terror against the US.
The US were neutral about settlements before, because they knew it could damage the peace process.


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1086 times:

It has really pissed of the arab world.

I challenge you to name one action of Israel's that hasn't pissed off the Arab world!  Smile

I'm afraid that this will breed more terror against the US.

I never buy this theory. Because if you subscribe to it, then every possible action can breed terrorists. If a person is willing to become a terrorist, I seriously doubt one thing like this will be the deciding factor for them.

The US were neutral about settlements before, because they knew it could damage the peace process.

The US isn't neutral about settlements. We support Israel's plan to pull out of most of the settlements while retaining a few; thus removing Israeli prescence from most of the disputed territories.


User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1085 times:

Hehe....  Smile

I challenge you to name one action of Israel's that hasn't pissed off the Arab world!

Well Ok, It will be very difficult. I have to capitulate on that one Big grin

I never buy this theory. Because if you subscribe to it, then every possible action can breed terrorists. If a person is willing to become a terrorist, I seriously doubt one thing like this will be the deciding factor for them.

Everything can breed terrorists unfortunately. And I believe that things like this makes the Palestinians even more depressed. And more people will open their eyes and become terrorist to support their cause.

The US isn't neutral about settlements. We support Israel's plan to pull out of most of the settlements while retaining a few; thus removing Israeli presence from most of the disputed territories.

The US has been neutral in this matter until now. That is why it has pissed so many Arabs and Palestinians off.
The reason why the US has been neutral is because they know it would damage the peace process.



User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1083 times:

Everything can breed terrorists unfortunately.

There you go.

And I believe that things like this makes the Palestinians even more depressed. And more people will open their eyes and become terrorist to support their cause.

There is a steady lineup of Palestinians willing to become terrorists--Israel's day to day actions will for the most part not have an effect on that. Even when "peace" was close in the early 90s, there were still tons of terrorist bombings.

The US has been neutral in this matter until now. That is why it has pissed so many Arabs and Palestinians off.
The reason why the US has been neutral is because they know it would damage the peace process.


What are you talking about here? How has the US been neutral in your opinion?

Regards.


User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1079 times:

Rj,

I'm talking about what I'm reading in books and newspapers  Smile
The US has been very careful when talking about the settlements in public.
In that way they have been neutral. They have been neutral to the press. But everyone knows they aren't neutral. That's what I mean. It's just so early over here I'm having problems to express myself.  Big grin



User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1077 times:

If they attempt to fight back to the settlement activities, they will be automatically called terrorists and their homes will be bulldozed.

User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5052 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1068 times:

...and this is why there will never be peace in the Middle East.

Can't say i'm surprised to see Rjpieces yet again seeing no problems with it. He never sees ANY problems with ANYthing Israel does.

And no, Rjpieces, I'm not entering into a discussion on this with you. I've seen the pathetic way in which you discuss these things in a previous thread and you'll just act that way again: you'll twist my words so that they suit your argument, you'll put words in my mouth, and ignore me when I set the record straight. Not playing that game again.


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1061 times:

...and this is why there will never be peace in the Middle East.

From where I sit it seems that they don't want peace. They've had many opportunities which all seem to go down the drain.



User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1056 times:

Finally, some good news from Israel:

"Israel Urged to Apply Geneva Convention to West Bank and Gaza


Israel's attorney general is urging the government to apply an international convention governing the treatment of civilians in occupied territory to Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

His recommendation says the government should "thoroughly examine" the possibility of applying the Fourth Geneva Convention to those areas.

Israel has refused to apply the convention to the West Bank or Gaza, arguing that they were not sovereign territories before their capture in the 1967 war. "


http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=4AB1B079-48E5-45F7-99BBD8AD9C8ADFA8

Now we all know from whom Bush copied his selective application of the Geneva Conventions.



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1035 times:

...and this is why there will never be peace in the Middle East.

And your reason for why there wasn't peace for the last 60 years?

Can't say i'm surprised to see Rjpieces yet again seeing no problems with it. He never sees ANY problems with ANYthing Israel does.

Yo scorpmister, did you read Reply 3 and 5? In both, I said Israel would be dumb to build new houses deep in the West Bank. Of course I'm forgetting that all the problems are Israel's fault, right?

and ignore me when I set the record straight. Not playing that game again.

You were the one who stopped responding when your fairy, terrorist appeasing arguments ran dry dear......


User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5305 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1032 times:

''''As many as 1500 housing units are now planned by officials seeking to pressure Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan into nonexistence.'''

Perfect news! And with me are many Dutch people who will show their support! The Dutch-Israeli relationship is very strong. Let's keep it that way.

KL911


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5052 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1028 times:

Of course I'm forgetting that all the problems are Israel's fault, right?

See what I meant with the 'putting words into my mouth' part?

You were the one who stopped responding

The fact that you still don't seem to get why I stopped responding to that thread speaks volumes of just HOW dense you are.

your fairy, terrorist appeasing arguments ran dry dear......

And here, ladies and gentlemen, we then find a beautiful illustration of the OTHER point I made in my previous post, the "twist my words so that they suit your argument" as well as the "and ignore me when I set the record straight" part.

Oh, in case you are still wondering WHY I stopped responding to that thread: THIS is why^^.

So thank you once again, Rjpieces, for illustrating to us all here just WHY I don't enter into a discussion with you on this subject anymore.

It took you just one post to illustrate every single reason I mentioned before. That's got to be a record.


User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1021 times:

Don't worry Scorpio, most of the members of A.net know exactly whats happening. Tactics of twisting words are common with certian members to try to discredit others.

Horus





EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5305 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1009 times:

Is it Israels fault that attacks were launched against them from the West bank? NO.

After the 2nd worldwar Russia occupied Eastern Germany, and Israel occupied the Westbank after their war. That's the price you pay for starting the war. The US is occupying Iraq, same story.

KL911


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1007 times:

Don't worry Horus. For everyone one of you lunatics, there are 3 more willing to do your dirty work. And at least they have the balls to say what they feel, that Israel doesn't have a right to exist. So Horus, it's been a few months, does Israel have a right to exist?

25 Scorpio : LOL! Not sure how I'm supposed to read your last post, KL911: tongue planted firmly in cheek or not?
26 Kl911 : '''So Horus, it's been a few months, does Israel have a right to exist?''' Ofcourse! It's decided by the UN, so it's a majority of this planet, that I
27 Rjpieces : KI911, your intentions are good but you are about to start a flamewar. I suggest waiting for another one to break out and participating there, rather
28 Kl911 : '''saddened when Hamas members are killed''' How can any ' normal' person support terrorists after 9/11? I don't get it. If they stop attacking Israel
29 Rjpieces : How can any ' normal' person support terrorists after 9/11? What is even funnier is how these same members will blast terrorists who target America; Y
30 Scorpio : KL911, I wish the situation was as simplistic as you seem to think. Unfortunately it isn't. Rjpieces, just clarify one thing for me: Yet they lavish p
31 Kl911 : Rjpieces, Do you have any idea why other forum members here still want an other solution? A solution that didn't work the last 60 years, and did cost
32 Rjpieces : Do these 'same members', in you opinion, include me? Don't answer with another question, just answer with a simple yes or no. No.
33 Scorpio : No. OK... At least something we agree on then. This having been said, and with you being in an honest mood and all, why did you then insist on twistin
34 Post contains images Kl911 : Scorpio, ''Not to mention the fact that I don't have to take it when a kid has the audacity to call me a terrorist-hugger''' Kid? You're not that old
35 Rjpieces : OK... At least something we agree on then. This having been said, and with you being in an honest mood and all, why did you then insist on twisting my
36 Dc10guy : Good for them. I support Israel 110%. The Palestinians are going to continue trying to kill the Jews whether they build the settlement or not. Here's
37 Rjpieces : Good for them. I support Israel 110%. The Palestinians are going to continue trying to kill the Jews whether they build the settlement or not. Here's
38 Dc10guy : I admit that before 9/11 I was pretty critical of the Israel's. I still supported their right to be in Israel, but I thought that they where a little
39 Rjpieces : I admit that before 9/11 I was pretty critical of the Israel's. I still supported their right to be in Israel, but I thought that they where a little
40 Dc10guy : Very true my friend. Its a fight between good and evil. If there is any doubt that the Israelis are the good guys ask yourself this ... Israel can kil
41 Rjpieces : Very true my friend. Its a fight between good and evil. It is indeed. You might find this excerpt interesting: "America is hated by the nations of the
42 Dc10guy : "That would take us back to Bill Clinton's days, when America was neutral on the Arab-Israeli conflict and when it largely turned a blind eye to Arab
43 Rjpieces : Pre 9/11 I would still agree with the Jimmy Carter/ Bill Clinton attempts to bring peace to the region. It has been proven not to work unfortunately.
44 Dc10guy : Well I'm pro-Isreal and I'm a left wing democrat. I will give Bush credit for not continuing talks with Arafat. That terrorist should have been put aw
45 Scorpio : Rjpieces, I don't think I twisted your words around. Well you did. Repeatedly. And knowingly. You said the ways you think we should deal with terroris
46 Tbar220 : One way to look at this and the division of Jerusalem is to go back to the war in 1967. Israel won that war fair and square, with its Arab neighbors o
47 Jutes85 : Scorpio, Take it easy. For Israel to give up land with no guarantee for peace is a disaster and a huge policy mistake as far as I see it. Israel will
48 Rjpieces : Well you did. Repeatedly. And knowingly. Yawn. Scorpio darling, You never directly said "Let's get fuzzy with Osama". I will be more than happy to say
49 Rjpieces : And I'd also like to add that I don't believe you are a terrorist, or a terrorist sympathizer in any sense of the word. I do believe that your method
50 Scorpio : Scorpio darling, There's something disturbing about being called 'darling' by another guy. No problem with gays, just don't hit on me, k? ...Oh, you m
51 Post contains images LY7E7 : Hi. I see that I missed a lot in 4 days After the amazing Red Sea Jazz festival I'm not in a mood for politics, so I'll just say that Sharon's settlem
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