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Bus Explosions In Southern Israel, 12 Dead.  
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Explosions went off on two buses in the southern Israeli city of Beer Sheva Tuesday, killing at least 12 people and seriously wounding 22 others, Israeli police and ambulance services said.

Television pictures from the scene showed emergency personnel attending the wounded and burning wreckage. The explosions took place near the city center.

The Palestinian Authority immediately condemned the attacks, saying civilians should not be targeted -- whether they are Palestinians or Israelis.

The explosions happened about 2:50 p.m. local time near Soroka Hospital, according to the Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz.

Beer Sheva is in the Negev desert and about 200,000 Israelis live there.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/08/31/mideast/index.html




97 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2193 times:

i guess thats the "answer" to the new settling plans we have heard of earlier this week. i guess both sides are simply not interested in real peace hence both act accordingly.


10=2
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2259 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

Zak, most probably it is the answer to the disengagement plan. Besides, they don't really seek for a "proper" occasion, but try to seize any opportunity.


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

I thought the famous "securitywall" was supposed to stop this. But it sure looks like a failure.

But may the vectims rest in peace, and may this insanity end soon.


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2259 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

QIguy24 ,

1) The fence is not completed yet.
2) Parts of it are being moved now to the 1967 border line.
3) The police says the most probably the terrorists arrived from the Southern part of the West Bank, where there still is no fence (The Judean desert)
4) Other option is that they succeeded to get into Sinai via tunnel from the Gaza Strip and from their crossed the Israeli-Egyptian border into Israel.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3123 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2181 times:


At least they waited until after the Olympics so the attack would get some airtime.


User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

LY7E7,

Ah I see. I thought they were finished with the wall. Sorry about that.
But it's typical. So long without a terrorist bombing. And then they suddenly strikes. I hate it! It really makes me sick when innocent people dies because of politics and religion.


User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2168 times:

LY7E7 your replies raise the usual questions:

- why isnt the whole fence on the 1967 line, with something like a highway between the gaza strip and the other areas of the palestinians that is totally fenced in aswell

- the palestinian state is recognized within those borders, with full authority over itself and souvereignity

- to get from israel to filistin and vice versa, border checks require biometric passports with proper authorization

- abandoning of all settlements in the disputed palestine areas

this would eliminate the options for terrorists to try to enter israel, more importantly it would eliminate the motivation and the support in the population.

i am sure if such a plan would be seriously agreed to by both sides, the u.n. would even pay for your fricken fence to allow a coexistence where both groups are simply blocked off from each other, maybe with an agreement that u have a 5km DMZ around the border that is being controlled by u.n. peacekeepers from some neutral country that didnt have too many conflicts with muslim and jewish religions, maybe somewhere from latin america or scandinavia

voila peace in the middle east. it is not hard to achieve when both sides would accept that they cant have it all



10=2
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2259 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2148 times:

Zak:

Your questions describe what in my eyes would be the perfect situation for now. Too much extremists from both sides will do anything to prevent it. I do believe, however, that this plan will eventually come to life. I hope that the next year's pullout from GS will be some kind of a start to this solution.





2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineRonen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

the story at cnn.com

the word Palestinian was mentioned once when they said the Palestinian authority condemn this attack.(yes right) .
as if some unknown been from the six dimension did it.

unbelievable.



User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2082 times:

Those bastards are at it again. There will never be peace if they are
allowed to remain anywhere in Israel. When will the world wake up?
I hope Israel will hit back hard. that's the only answer they will understand.


'''being controlled by u.n. peacekeepers from some neutral country that didnt have too many conflicts with muslim and jewish religions'''

name me one country....


KL911



User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2259 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

The number of deaths is up to 15.


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2061 times:

Scary stuff, and I'm very angry! Specially since I've been in Beer Sheba often, also taking busses... It could have been me... Still I wil keep on going there since they need tourists to survive. Nobody will stop me.

My thoughts are with those innocent civilians....

KL911


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2259 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2060 times:

KL911,

Actually we can survive quite well without the tourism. (Not that it doesn't help).

[Edited 2004-08-31 17:24:06]


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2060 times:

This is very bad, and I do feel sorry for the innocents, but expected because of the new settlements.

Question to KL: Will there be peace when Israel is still occupying the GS & the WB, while their still building new settlements, and they are still grabbing Palestinian land for the war.

And what should the world wake up to? To how much suffering Palestinians are facing everyday or a few, rare assisanations which you guys dont mind striking back and getting a higher civilian toll with?


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2259 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2054 times:

QR, I think that the rate of terror events (and attempts for such) will constantly raise as long as the disengagement process is building up its power.


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently onlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5727 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

And what should the world wake up to? To how much suffering Palestinians are facing everyday or a few, rare assisanations which you guys dont mind striking back and getting a higher civilian toll with?

A death toll of currently well over thousand innocent civilians is a "few" and dozens of cowardly bombings of buses, discos, cafés and restaurant "rare" according to you??? I'm scared to ask what's your understanding of "many" and "frequent"?


User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

'''or a few, rare assisanations which you guys dont mind striking back and getting a higher civilian toll with?''''

Sorry, I prefer a guided missile aimed at a terrorist leader. You also have to wonder how 'innocent' those civilians are who are killed in the same car or appartment as that terrorist leader..

Blowing up a bus full of innocent people doesn't make sense.


'''Question to KL: Will there be peace when Israel is still occupying the GS & the WB, while their still building new settlements, and they are still grabbing Palestinian land for the war.'''

Haha, do you think they will stop when they get that land back? Most of them, like Hamas, Hezbollah and Jihad said alraedy that they go on till Israel is destroyed.

KL911


[Edited 2004-08-31 17:32:59]

User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

KL911

I hope Israel will hit back hard. that's the only answer they will understand

I agree fully with your sentiments. Hit back, and hit the bastards hard.
Fight fire with fire. Unfortunately these are not the sort of people who understand dialogue, and it's the innocent who suffer.

Israel, IMO, have tried and tried to end this through the offer of dialogue.
They must retaliate against these Islamic assholes and all they stand for.


Mark



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

Oh boy, the death toll is up to 15, and Magen David Adom says that 30 of the wounded are in critical or serious condition, so the death toll may rise.

Can we hold off the political discussion for just a couple hours maybe? Geez guys.



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

Kl911:

"Sorry, I prefer a guided missile aimed at a terrorist leader. You also have to wonder how 'innocent' those civilians are who are killed in the same car or appartment as that terrorist leader.."

So it was Ahmed's (3 years), Dina's (2 months), Mohammed's (4 years), Ayman's (2 years) and Ala's (11 yeas old) own fault that their house was bombed by Israeli F-16's in July 2002 and their deaths as a result of this has absolutely nothing to do with Israel's tactics? I see...



Mark:

"They must retaliate against these Islamic assholes and all they stand for."

I sense some racism there, something Israel is unfortunately too familiar with.

If you believe the terrorists are assholes, that state so. Don't accuse a whole religion for the actions of a few!



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5204 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2026 times:

'''So it was Ahmed's (3 years), Dina's (2 months), Mohammed's (4 years), Ayman's (2 years) and Ala's (11 yeas old) own fault that their house was bombed by Israeli F-16's in July 2002 and their deaths as a result of this has absolutely nothing to do with Israel's tactics? I see...''''


No, that was not their fault , but the disgusting terrorist leader who hides himself in between civilians. If you want to fight a war, fight it like a man!
As far as I see it it's him who's responsible for the death of those children. He knew he was a target....

KL911


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2019 times:

Schoerama,

Sorry - I apologise - I of course mean the terrorists,

Mark



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Kl911:


"No, that was not their fault , but the disgusting terrorist leader who hides himself in between civilians. If you want to fight a war, fight it like a man!"

Israel has got every right to go after suspected terrorists, but it should do the utmost to minimize killing innocent people. Bombing the hell out of an residential apartment building using F-16's is simply unacceptable, it's against International Law and the U.S. Arms Export Control Act (which prohibits the use of U.S. weapons against civilian targets) and even seen by many as completely counterproductive.

Even White House spokesperson Ari Fleischer admitted that it was "a deliberate attack against a building in which civilians were known to be located" and that it was done with the knowledge "that innocents would be lost."


"As far as I see it it's him who's responsible for the death of those children. He knew he was a target...."

With such an attitude, Israel might as well bomb the hell out of what is left of Palestine...



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6858 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Can we hold off the political discussion for just a couple hours maybe? Geez guys.

Certainly we should pray and/or mourn or reflect on the victims of this heinous act of terror.

But ultimately, this is a political issue. And while we talk of the innocent victims in Beer Sheba, the Islamofascist leaders are telling their people and poisoning the populace that their "brave martyrs" struck back at their "oppressors" in Israel.

I sense some racism there, something Israel is unfortunately too familiar with.
If you believe the terrorists are assholes, that state so. Don't accuse a whole religion for the actions of a few!


I think he was very clear in calling the terrorists assholes- how is that a racist intonation? I sensed it as a response of anger--quite justified too.

And it's funny how the rest of the so-called peace-loving religion of Islam never rebukes these suicide bombings. Isn't the silence of the rest of the peaceful Muslims ironic or curious to you? Where is the public denouncement? When have the rest of the Middle Eastern Arab leaders ever spoken out against this "minority" of radical fundamentalists?

If the whole religion is largely peaceful, then it needs to be as active in denouncing and correcting the problem as the rest of the free societies and liberty-loving governments are.



25 Kl911 : Slider, '''Where is the public denouncement? When have the rest of the Middle Eastern Arab leaders ever spoken out against this "minority" of radical
26 QR332 : A death toll of currently well over thousand innocent civilians is a "few" and dozens of cowardly bombings of buses, discos, cafés and restaurant "ra
27 Post contains images Stratofish : "And suddenly the pro-terrorist members here on A.net are quiet as well." Except one dutch guy currently living in France...
28 Kl911 : QR332, '''My understanding of many and frequent is the much higher amount of Palestinians dead (not sure of the figure but well over 5,000) and the da
29 Post contains links L410Turbolet : KL, although I agree with you on majority of things you wrote here, I have to dissapoint you, Palestine is somewhat recognized internationally, it has
30 Kl911 : L410Turbolet, That's terrible! I didn't know that. ( Left The Netherlands when I was 17...) I know the EU donates money to them, but ofcourse it all g
31 Post contains links Kl911 : I found the article: http://public-integrity.org/publications55.htm The International Monetary Fund report "Economic Performance and Reforms under Con
32 L410Turbolet : KL, I noticed you're strongly pro-EU... Did you notice that whenever EU speaks on the topic of Israeli/Palestinian conflict it's almost always pro-Ara
33 Kl911 : ''KL, I noticed you're strongly pro-EU... "" I noticed. Nobody is 100% supporting something in Politics. There is always something that you don't agre
34 QR332 : Sorry, but it's the Palestinians who attack daily and then get killed. Maybe in Fairyland, but thats not the truth. Over a thousand are woman and chil
35 Jutes85 : Well, looks like more houses will be demolished, more Apaches will be deployed, the cycle continues. Still, over 100 suicide bombers were stopped in t
36 Tbar220 : The death toll is up to sixteen. One can only expect Israel to respond to this harshly, as they have the right to do after this attack.
37 Post contains links Jutes85 : The death toll is up to sixteen. One can only expect Israel to respond to this harshly, as they have the right to do after this attack. Already starte
38 Kl911 : ''The death toll is up to sixteen. One can only expect Israel to respond to this harshly, as they have the right to do after this attack.''' Don't wor
39 Schoenorama : Slider: "I think he was very clear in calling the terrorists assholes- how is that a racist intonation?" He wasn't calling the terrorists assholes, Sl
40 Post contains images Tbar220 : These people that are cheering after these attacks are sick. You don't see Israeli's cheering and dancing in the streets, passing out sweets, etc. aft
41 Post contains links Tbar220 : Israel's response is going to be harsh, and its already beginning. From the following JPost article: Hamas infrastructure in Hebron distributed a leaf
42 Tbar220 : Another suicide bombing was thwarted at the Eretz Terminal crossing earlier in the morning today as well. The result was that the IDF shut down the cr
43 Post contains links and images Solarix : Palestinians celebrating the deaths of innocent Israelis... How surprising!! Hell... they also celebrated like crazy when over 3,000 people are slaugh
44 Jutes85 : But when they do it nobody says a word. Again I must ask, why do they get special treatment???? We have to act nice to them since they control the wor
45 Tbar220 : Yet if we were to go out and celebrate each time Muslims are killed we would be condemned and called racists. But when they do it nobody says a word.
46 LY7E7 : Perhaps they have other things closer to their homes to worry about like feeding their children, rebuilding a country or simply staying alive? If the
47 QR332 : Perhaps they have other things closer to their homes to worry about like feeding their children, rebuilding a country or simply staying alive? If in I
48 7LBAC111 : Its about time the rest of the Muslim world came together and stopped this, but as said above, they remain strangely quiet. Never has the planet faced
49 LY7E7 : Do they control the militants? No, they only produce them.
50 7LBAC111 : Or those children who died in Jenin, Nablues, Ramallah, Gaza, etc. Are Palestinians in your eyes not as worthy as Israelis to care about? Someone answ
51 Schoenorama : LY7E7: "If the terrorism stops their chances for that will dramatically increase." I was talking about the Islam Community worldwide. QR332: You're de
52 NUAir : I'm still confused as to why anyone is grouping all of Palistinians as Terrorists, last I heard this was Hamas not the entire Palistinian ethnicity th
53 LY7E7 : NUAir: Nobody is saying that all of the Palestinians are terrorists. Many Palestinians are , in a way, victims of such terror, inflicted upon them by
54 QR332 : 7LBAC111, Never has the planet faced such dangers to it's existence, and those who can stop it 'seemingly' choose not too. Arab terrorists such as Al-
55 LY7E7 : The average Palestinian now produces these militants Go way back to one of my first posts on this specific issue. I am tired of repeating myself. Besi
56 MD11Engineer : Concerning the EU money (and other funds), could it be that Arafat and the leaders of the militant groups one one side, as well as the radical leaders
57 LY7E7 : Jan, It is very much true that there is a "propaganda" war going on. Hey, we even have it here, on a.net. Considering Sharon voters, surprisingly, mos
58 Post contains links and images Schoenorama : QR332: "Sorry, I was commenting about your statement, not attacking it, I knew it was yours. I'll put peoples name now like above, does that make it b
59 Post contains links LY7E7 : Schoenorama: Of course Israel has its own share of blame to take in this issue. Yet ,I have no problem with IDF undermining education of hate and into
60 Post contains links Schoenorama : LY7E7: "Of course Israel has its own share of blame to take in this issue. Yet ,I have no problem with IDF undermining education of hate and intoleran
61 Copaair737 : 1 dead Jew=100 dead Palestinians. According to the media it seems. I mean, if this were the other way around, 15 dead Palestinians on that bus, you wo
62 Slider : 1 dead Jew=100 dead Palestinians. According to the media it seems. I mean, if this were the other way around, 15 dead Palestinians on that bus, you wo
63 Post contains links Kl911 : '''The Palestinians had their land taken from them.''' Again wrong! What do they teach you at school? In 1946, the British Mandate Government surveyed
64 LY7E7 : Shoenorama, UN officials have no authority or real power in the PA. Most of them are as frightened of the terrorists as the peaceful Palestinians are.
65 L410Turbolet : I do not think that suicide bombing is right, it goes against the Koran. But, if you oppress a group of people long enough, the shit is going to hit t
66 Indianguy : I wonder how the British came to acquire the 70% of land they passed of as their own! Did they consult the original owners from whom they had grabbed
67 7LBAC111 : Where else in the world, other than in Arab/Muslim countrries do you see pictures of childrem - yes CHILDREN, wearing bomb belts and shooting AK47's i
68 Post contains links Schoenorama : LY7E7: "UN officials have no authority or real power in the PA. Most of them are as frightened of the terrorists as the peaceful Palestinians are. Do
69 Post contains links LY7E7 : Schoenorama: You want to talk about the suicidal bomb belts transported in Palestinian ambulances? http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.htm
70 LY7E7 : Oh , and one more question for you Schoenorama: Have the Spanish government found and punished those who were responsible for the deaths of so many co
71 Post contains images QR332 : In 1946, the British Mandate Government surveyed the land, ownership was as followes: 70% owned by the British government, in trust for the Jewish Nat
72 LY7E7 : QR: I don't see much contradiction between the map and the numbers you quoted, and that is because of the Negev desert (more than 60% of the entire te
73 QR332 : Looking at the map, and ignoring the largley inhabited Negev (apart from the Beduins and Eilat/Umm El-Rashrash at the time), i can tell you the Arabs
74 Post contains links L410Turbolet : Schoenorama, although you seem to be completely biased (so am I but I'm not denying it), here's tough question for you: Why do you think there's need
75 Slider : Where else in the world, other than in Arab/Muslim countrries do you see pictures of childrem - yes CHILDREN, wearing bomb belts and shooting AK47's i
76 MD11Engineer : LY7E7, Concerning the Madrid attacks, which were committed by a mainly MOroccan sleeper cell, AFAIK the Spanish police hunted them successfully down.
77 Post contains links L410Turbolet : Further elaboration on what Jan wrote: I saw a documentary about the war in Sierra Leone or Ivory Coast I can't remember. Guess, who were the most cru
78 MD11Engineer : Another thing: An adult thinks about future and tends to have realistic plans. A child / teenager lives in a day to day world and doesn´t even get th
79 Post contains images LY7E7 : QR332 : There is no argument who owned more land. Arabs did. I was just pointing out that in terms of figures the map you published tells the same nu
80 Post contains images QR332 : largley inhabited Negev Meant to say uninhabited. L410, Is a under-18 kid wrapped in plastic explosive still a "child"??? I'm sure all of them were. L
81 LY7E7 : QR: Meant to say uninhabited Yep, sorry. And I wasn't attacking you either.
82 Kl911 : '''There is no argument who owned more land. Arabs did.''' No, The British did, and they gave it to the Israeli's. Palestine has never been a real cou
83 LY7E7 : KL911: I do not dispute the international right. The fact that in 1946 the Arabs owned more land then the Jews is still a fact though.
84 Post contains images Slider : No, The British did, and they gave it to the Israeli's. Palestine has never been a real country, never recognized, for obvious reasons, so Israel has
85 LY7E7 : So this whole mess is because of British Imperialism? British and French (The famous Sykes-Picot agreement)
86 Slider : LY7E7- Silly me, forgot to mention the Imperialistic French. *Sarcastic inflection added*
87 Schoenorama : LY7E7: "You want to talk about the suicidal bomb belts transported in Palestinian ambulances?" You want to justify the death of more than 2,500 civili
88 LY7E7 : Schoenorama: Every side has its wrongs. I am not justifying any of those. It's just that I have a strong feeling that you are biased. You wanna count
89 Schoenorama : LY7E7: "Every side has its wrongs." I completely agree. "But when the PA had their chance to start building a country they preferred to open another r
90 QR332 : KL911, No, The British did, and they gave it to the Israeli's. Palestine has never been a real country, never recognized, for obvious reasons, so Isra
91 LY7E7 : - Hezbollah has no involvment in the GS and WB Yes they have. By financing and training. No direct involvement. they are a political party They are a
92 7LBAC111 : Hezbollah has no involvment in the GS and WB and are not a miltant "terrorist" group, they are a political party so they are not like the rest you lis
93 L410Turbolet : In 2001, Arafat and the PA didn't start the Intifada, the people did because of Sharon's famous visit to Al-Aqsa, in which he knew the consequences of
94 Slider : My whole argument in this discussion was merely to point out that Palestinians Civilians get killed too and in much higher numbers than many on this b
95 Kl911 : QR332 still thinks he can get his private state? LOL! QR332, In your area it's a fashion at the moment to spill as much innocent blood as possible to
96 QR332 : LY, Yes they have. By financing and training. No direct involvement. Thats what I meant, no direct. I won't talk about indirect involvment cause hones
97 Slider : And Palestinians are limited with how much they can suffer and endure. You're right. Unfortunately, it is not the suffering at the hands of the ISrael
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