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We Cant Win....Now We Can...Bush Flip Flops  
User currently offlineRsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1510 times:


So some say John Kerry flip-flops..... well it must be catching on because the President who is running this year on the the same agenda he ran on in 2000 and did not accomplish to any degree is following suit.

"In a speech to the national convention of the American Legion, Bush said, "We meet today in a time of war for our country, a war we did not start yet one that we will win.

That statement differed from Bush's earlier comment, aired Monday in a pre-taped television interview, that "I don't think you can win" the war on terror"

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040831/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_bush_28

Quote from the Kerry site.....

"Kerry spokesman Phil Singer said: “What today showed is that George Bush might be able to read a speech saying we can win the war on terror, but as we saw yesterday, he’s clearly got real doubts about his ability to do so and with good reason.
“This President has gone from mission accomplished to mission miscalculated to mission impossible on the war on terror. We need a leader who knows we can win the war on terror and has a plan to do it. America can do better than a go-it-alone foreign policy that has alienated key allies, leaving U.S. troops bearing the overwhelming burden in Iraq and U.S. taxpayers shouldering the bulk of the cost.”





I cant wait to hear Scott McClellan attempt to do damage control on this apparent Waffle of the President.........Make up your mind George.. men and women are dying fighting a war you selfishly and mistakenly took us into..


[Edited 2004-08-31 18:44:12]


Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1480 times:

You're slipping. Took you more than a day to dig this one up.

Maybe if you take the entire thing into context you'd realize what he was talking about. (Of course that isn't possible given your mindset.) It would also help if the idiot reporter had let Bush finish one statement before cutting him off.

Terrorism will never go away. As long as people are willing to blow themselves up in order to obtain their goal, it will exist. However, what we can do is make it where it no longer is an attractive option and a dangerous one to engage in. By changing countries into places where terrorism is not preached and supported, we reduce the likelihood of it happening. Terrorists have existed for thousands of years and the concept will never go away.

The President has said in the past that this war will not be won like WWII where there are formal surrender ceremonies. The war will last at least a generation and will only be over when terrorism is no longer a supported and attractive method.



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1444 times:

I guess we can win it at the same time we can't win it while we nation build after we won't nation build.

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

I guess we cant win it because there are WMDs, but we can win it because there arent any WMDs.



User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1430 times:

Every politician flip-flops. It was just a Republican ploy that made everyone think that John Kerry is the king of flip-flopping. And people say that the media is liberal, yeah right!  Yeah sure

Jeremy


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1431 times:

I agree with the President....we can't 'win' the war on terrorism...but we can stay a head in the battle. Just as B757 said above, the world will never be free 100% from strife, hatered, anger and terrorism as long as people are willing to blow themselves up in order to obtain their goal, it will exist.

I was working today here in BNA when he arrived and it was great to see AF1 again. I was also able to hear his ENTIRE speach today on the local radio.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13612 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1409 times:
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I think it's pretty evident that the President meant we can't "win" in a traditional sense, as there's no nation that capitulates in this war. This one is about changing the hearts and minds of the people who have corrupted their religion and seek to do us (and I don't mean just Americans, but any non-Muslims) harm in the name of it.




"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6822 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1401 times:

Good to read leveled viewpoints on this here...

I can understand the perception of a flip-flop, but he clarified well the distinction between fighting a finite war (ie: WWII, with a definite endgame), versus fighting an enemy with no clear flag, no distinct nation with borders, etc.



User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6822 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1399 times:

And to add to that: you cannot truly defeat terror entirely.

Sun Tzu said, "Kill one, terrorize a thousand." That was uttered a few thousand years ago.

It remains true today. You cannot fully defeat those that would use terror, which is what Bush's intent was I believe. His lack of eloquence certainly makes a target though.

I'd ask John Edwards how he would defeat terror, since he termed it "clearly winnable." Could he guarantee that? No way.


User currently offlineAGrayson514 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1394 times:

I don't see the problem with "flip flopping". Would you prefer that they stick to the same ideas forever even if all of the evidence and experience gained goes against it? That goes for both sides. I mean, doing it for no reason is kinda stupid, but much of the time is seems legit.

~ Andrew Grayson



Give a little bit...
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1379 times:

I just saw the entire interview with Matt Lauer from where this 'statement' came from. You need to listen to how the President answers the question, to understand what he meant by .. " No, I don't think we can WIN the war." It was meant in the traditional sense... a signing of an armasist, a peace agreement, a truce. This is a 'war' that will never end and must be fought everyday.

[Edited 2004-09-01 00:54:36]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1327 times:

So, when have we won this war?

When there are no more attacks? Well, if that's the case, it lasted all of one day, and we won on September 12, 2001.

When there is no more threat? How do you gauge that? You can't, and it will go on forever.

Seems to me that there is either no war, or there is an everlasting war. A war that we can never ever win. That's a pretty disheartening thought. The question on my mind is, how did we let 19 average guys force us into this? (this is not a criticism of Bush or Kerry, it's actually an honest non-partisan question that I've been thinking about recently)



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1315 times:

Rsmith,

Been savin this one, it's one of my favorites...hope it's one of yours too.


User currently offlineRsmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1310 times:



Chris..............Likewise or do I have to explain.



Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1307 times:

Naw, not at all....glad to see you're still awake  Smile

User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

Bush is right. We may not win. If Kerry is elected and we take a kind a gentle approach to these mass murders.

User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1277 times:

By changing countries into places where terrorism is not preached and supported, we reduce the likelihood of it happening.

True, but how do you want to achieve that? By bombing Irak?

BTW: terrorists do not 'work' for countries. Even when terrorism is not liked in a certain country (heck, which country likes terrorists), they will still be able to do it undercover. Is terrorism liked in Spain? No, but there is still the ETA.

The problem of today is 'sleeping terrorists', spread over the whole world. Those people can easily live undercover for several years, before they become actif. It is just not possible to do something about this, besides having a good police force who tries to find this scum. Those terrorists have their own specific reason to make terroristic strikes, and handle "in the name of Al Qaeda" to get international hearing in the press.

Frederic


User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1266 times:

"BTW: terrorists do not 'work' for countries. Even when terrorism is not liked in a certain country (heck, which country likes terrorists), they will still be able to do it undercover. Is terrorism liked in Spain? No, but there is still the ETA."

That is a very good and valid point. But we also need to realize that there are countries and governments that do overtly, and defacto support terror campaigns. It should be a world directive to work toward altering the outlook, or changing the situation in which terrorism can foster and grow.

Never, as is the case in many parts of the world, should appeasment and or turning a blind eye be the policy. That is what got us where we are today.

Bush is right...we can not "win" this war in a traditional sense, but this is not a traditional war.



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6822 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1239 times:

Great post Jamesag96...

Appeasement got us here. It won't get us out. We're seeing a structural change in terms of our intelligence, military composition, and policy to unprecedented degrees. In fact, the massive shifts taking place are the most dramatic since the end of the Cold War.

Even with sustained focus, we may not see the full fruition of this for a generation. But seeing Libya give up the ghost was certainly one big win. The near-term future of Iran and N. Korea will be another major litmus test.


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