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Foreign Opinions On U.S. Elections  
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1305 times:

I'm wondering how other American users here feel about the great number of our friends here from other countries telling us in such strong terms how it is in our best interests to unseat George W. Bush, in favor of John Kerry.

Does that bother anybody?

While I don't care one bit how foreigners think I should vote, I don't lose any sleep over the constant criticism and name calling here--although in the case of a lot of them, I'm glad their say is limited to telling us what they think, as opposed to being able to vote!

But it seems to me that if I were to tell some people that the leader of their country is a "nutjob," to borrow an expression I saw a European member use earlier today, I would be sharply rebuked as an American sticking his nose in another country's business.

Maybe this speaks to a bigger issue, which is that the 100 million or so Americans who vote in a U.S. presidential election have a disproportionate amount of influence in determining the direction of the world for the next four years, so powerful is the U.S. Presidency. Some people seem to feel that because of that, we should listen to what the rest of the world says and take that into account when we choose our President.

What are your thoughts?


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1294 times:

I speak as a dual-national, Swiss-American (who will be voting in November)

Foreign Opinion should be a consideration, but not an overriding one.

The #1 job requirement of the government of the United States is to look after the interests of the United States. Sometimes those interests will run counter to the interests of other nations. Jacques Chirac, for example, has said in the past that he does not wish America to be the lone superpower in the world. When U.S. interests conflict with those of other nations, it is the duty of the U.S. government to seek the best solution for the U.S. - all other conditions are secondary.

Clearly, there are some things that can best be achieved through alliances, and the government should pursue those alliances as long as the purpose of those alliances is for a benefit for the U.S.. If the cost of maintaining the alliance is greater than the actual benefit that you gain from it, then the alliance must be put on hold.

It is utterly meaningless, therefore, whether foreign opinion is for or against the U.S. government. Nowhere in the U.S. Constitution, nor in U.S. Law, does it say that the U.S. government must be friends with foreign countries.

All other countries in the world are dictated by self-interest. The U.S. should be the same. As it happens, however, in the same way as Adam Smith's (Wealth of Nations said that in a society where everyone is ruled by self-interest, people will find that working together can bring greater benefits (synergy), nations will often find a collective benefit in an alliance (win-win). But the alliance serves the participants' self-interest, and as soon as it becomes a win-lose relationship, because one side demands something that the other side finds disadvantagious, the alliance MUST fall.

Charles


User currently offline9A-CRO From Croatia, joined Jun 2000, 1574 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1287 times:
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DATABASE EDITOR

As America is one remaining superpower it is of concern of other nations will the person with a nuclear launch codes be utter idiot or someone intelligent.


When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward...
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1281 times:


our friends here from other countries telling us in such strong terms how it is in our best interests to unseat George W. Bush, in favor of John Kerry.

Not all! I certainly dont want GWB to be unseated and would hope that he cheats his way to another victory! The dodos continued presences as Americas head honcho is beneficial to a lot of other countries including mine!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Plus the Iraqi freedom struggle should hit a high point around MArch next year, and it shouldnt happen that somebody else is left to clean up a mess that GWB and his cronies created! GWB must pay for his own crimes.

-Roy


User currently offlineRT514 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1277 times:

I'm wondering how other American users here feel about the great number of our friends here from other countries telling us in such strong terms how it is in our best interests to unseat George W. Bush, in favor of John Kerry.
Does that bother anybody?


That's easy. Bush supporters would be more bothered by it, Kerry supporters less so.


While I don't care one bit how foreigners think I should vote, I don't lose any sleep over the constant criticism and name calling here--although in the case of a lot of them, I'm glad their say is limited to telling us what they think, as opposed to being able to vote!

It must have bothered you enough to post a thread on the subject!  Laugh out loud

Due to my ties, I have a great interest in the politics of three countries. Comments from foreigners and citizens alike have value but certainly not to the point where it would be an ultimate deciding factor for my vote. I know that my vote is ultimately cast based on my own decision. Besides, you will find just as strong words bashing Bush or Kerry on this site as you would in any American newspaper anyway, so why not supplement it with foreign opinion as well? If you're interested in politics, you won't find that there is "too much" information and opinion out there.

I also don't think that it is really a "foreign opinion/domestic opinion" issue anyway. There are some US citizens who will vote who are clueless and foreigners who can't vote who are enlightened and knowledgeable to the fullest. It's usually rather easy to distinguish valid opinion from meaningless garbage, regardless of nationality.



User currently offlineSolarix From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1274 times:

Plus the Iraqi freedom struggle should hit a high point around MArch next year

You call Sharia Law freedom?  Insane


User currently offlineQANTASFOREVER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1264 times:

Hey - here's a foreign opinion for you: I don't care because I think whichever guy gets in - not much will change!

QFF


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1260 times:

Sooner its over, the better.
Personally, I hope Bush stays in



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1233 times:


You call Sharia Law freedom?

That is for the Iraqi's to decide. Freedom means an IRaq ruled by Iraqis, chosen by Iraqis and a sovereign government that takes decisions keeping Iraqi interests in mind. A puppet regime that controls Iraq by proxy for America is not Freedom. It is slavery.



User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3189 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1225 times:

Sooner its over, the better. Exactly, and you people in the US have got to put up with the crap more than we do, enjoy the circus.

I would hope that John Kerry gets in. GWB has done what his father set out to do, get rid of Saddam Hussien.

Hope the voters of West Palm Beach at least take a look at the how to vote card this time.






Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1221 times:

Here's the flaw in the reasoning of this thread starter. The US WANTS to be considered the leader of the free world. Well, then, a US President must demonstrate the wisdom required to be such a leader. And that's where GWB failed big time.

Personally, I tend to agree that foreigners should not be involved too much in the US elections and, as such, I don't think I've expressed too many opinions in the ongoing, countless Bush VS Kerry threads.

And for that exact reason, I'm a strong believer in the rise of another world power, to counter-balance the US, and I hope this power will be a unified Europe. GWB has demonstrated at large that an unwise US president is a very dangerous man.

So, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you don't want foreigners to stick their nose in your business, you'll have to accept the fact that foreigners will not recognize the US as the world leader.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1208 times:

One of the slogans that drove the birth of the USA was "No taxation without representation!"

And the same principle is still true.

So if you´re dumping your waste in other people´s front yards and insult and abuse them, they have every right to take an interest. Normally, international law should prevent the kinds of transgressions we´ve seen in the past four years. But it seems international law needs new champions. The USA is not among them any more.


By the way, Cfalk, if you´re known to be shortsighted and selfish, you simply will find fewer and fewer people who would want to enter any kind of alliance with you. And you will find growing opposition at every turn. If you believe that´s a way to go, you´re deluding yourself.


User currently offlineSteve7E7 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 478 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1184 times:

Personally, I hope Bush stays in

Me too,better the devil we know in my opinion.


User currently offlineBushcheney2004 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1186 times:

I do not get why people from other coutries try to criticize our president when they dont live here. We are not talking about German or French government.

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1179 times:

I do not get why people from other coutries try to criticize our president when they dont live here

Maybe because it effects them too?

We are not talking about German or French government.

I bet you think that's a good thing don't you?

As for DeltaSFO, you don't care, but you care enough to start a thread about it? Sure.


User currently offlineWhitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1168 times:

Foreign opinions are sometimes worth reading as you can get an outsiders view, rather than what is being reflected back off the inside of the fish bowl.

Personally I like debating the points and issues, but wouldn't go as far as endorsing a candidate. That to me isn't acceptable as I am not a voter.


User currently offlineBushcheney2004 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1159 times:

Foreign media is even more liberal than here so you dont get a fair view there. If they would portray Bush fairly it would be a different story. It seems like the only intelligent international person on this website is luisca.

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1155 times:

It seems like the only intelligent international person on this website is luisca.

There goes your credibility.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1152 times:

While I don't care one bit how foreigners think I should vote

Actually, I'd take it a step further:
do the opposite, and for good reason....




I'm glad their say is limited to telling us what they think, as opposed to being able to vote!

Agreed.



it is of concern of other nations will the person with a nuclear launch codes be utter idiot or someone intelligent.

Ah yes... the USA's (ya know, the world's only nation with a nuclear arsenal) President can just press a button any time he feels compelled, and singlehandedly blow away any target in a hail of atomic holocaust  Insane  Yeah sure


User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3316 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1149 times:

Well ConcordeBoy, there are 17,000 fresh deads that can witness !
You need more of course to consider considering...


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1164 times:

The dodos continued presences as Americas head honcho is beneficial to a lot of other countries including mine!

This is one occasion where I must concur with Roy. The people suffering the most as a result of George Bush's poor leadership are the American people. It is business as usual for the rest of the world, and in many cases such as India, business better than usual thanks to being able to step in where the US has fallen.

If the American people want to spend another 4 years pursuing wars (justified or otherwise), living in a constant state of fear (justified or otherwise) and watching their great-grandchildren's paycheck pawned off for deficit spending (justified or otherwise), then democracy gives them the right to choose that option.

John Kerry will probably be a poor leader judging by his performance on many issues to date. George Bush is a proven poor leader judging by the mess he has created over four years. It is truly the choice of the lesser evil. I don't envy the choice you guys have to make.


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2252 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1134 times:

I would prefer to see Bush being re-elected. The Indo-US business relationship has generally flourished under his administration. Besides the potential for a more protectionist US business policy under Kerry, another matter that leads me to hope Bush will be around till 2008 is the fact that the last Democrat in the Oval Office led a nuclear non-proliferation policy that was hopelessly misdirected - focussing primarily on India when recent events have proved that the problem of proliferation lay elsewhere.

We WILL build a full strategic thermonuclear deterrent capability - including road/rail mobile ICBMs and SLBMs within this decade - whether anyone likes it or not. We'd also like it if we were left alone to do it without assorted nonproliferation ayatollahs bawling about it incessantly. With the potential for people like (shudder) Madeleine Albright in a Kerry-led administration, I'm certainly not enthusiastic about the possibility of the Democrats returning to power. On the same token, it would be nice if Bush jettisoned Colin Powell (and maybe Rice as well). The guy and the State Dept have been a source of continuous irritation in the Indian Government thanks to their carte blanche policy to the military thug who runs the show in Pakistan.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineWhitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1126 times:

There goes your credibility.

What credibility?

Bushcheney is a soundbite parrot, repeating cribsheet bilge and without any kind of backup or explanation of his weird one-line posts. Typical one sentence crap from someone who has to be "given" their opinions.

Maybe if the US media was a little bit more receptive to journalism from outside the US then some pretty incisive and non-partisan stuff would make it into print or broadcast. But then again that doesn't fit the "script" that the soundbite parrots of whatever political complexion constantly screech.

God forbid a real debate should break out... Insane...



User currently offlineRT514 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1116 times:

Foreign media is even more liberal than here so you dont get a fair view there.

LOL! Thanks for the laugh!
Seriously, though... A generalized statement like that only shows you to be not well-traveled or well acquainted with media other than your own. There's some pretty far right-wing media out there in lands everywhere... enough to even make the staunchest conservative blush!


If they would portray Bush fairly it would be a different story.

What is "fair"? It would seem that "fair" in this case means more congruent with the belief you have formulated.


User currently offlineBushcheney2004 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1113 times:

RT514, some examples please.


25 NoUFO : Your, Bushcheney2004, post was full of accusations so YOU should be the one who provides some examples.
26 Post contains links RT514 : RT514, some examples please. Much obliged. While living in Australia, I read "The Australian" almost on a daily basis. http://www.theaustralian.com.au
27 Bushcheney2004 : NoUFO, examples of what?
28 Sv7887 : Hi All, The American press is pathetically biased. Fair and Balanced? Please, I'll stick to the BBC. The press seems to think the world revolves aroun
29 NoUFO : Bushcheney2004, is that really so hard to grasp? You wrote that if media outside of the US would only portray Bush fairly it would be a different stor
30 Iakobos : The media is representative of the population. There are as many components in the media as there are in the political spectrum of the population, at
31 L410Turbolet : Clearly, there are some things that can best be achieved through alliances, and the government should pursue those alliances as long as the purpose of
32 Bushcheney2004 : NoUFO, yes I can read German and Spainish. I speak both fluently, thanks for the question. I go to Germany every year for a month and watch Tv with th
33 Cfalk : Foreign media is even more liberal than here so you dont get a fair view there. Yeah, blame the media! It's his actions and policies that speak for hi
34 NoUFO : And what exactly is it that cracks you up, what did they say you consider unfair? Furthermore, please keep in mind that you have your opinions and tha
35 Iakobos : Cfalk, You must have missed a thing or two. Expecting one single source of information to be fair is expecting it to make the analysis for you. There
36 Bushcheney2004 : NoUFO, I said this site is PREDOMININTELY American. I did not say it is not Swedish.
37 Post contains links and images NoUFO : Yeah, I know, I know ... predominatly American ... you Americans are getting used to predominate foreign areas, don't you? Seriously: You provided an
38 Iakobos : ...perhaps "die rote elefant", or "politik ist der neue sex" ? (LOL)
39 Bushcheney2004 : It sais he lost a lot of credibility because of the weapons of mass destruction, which is not true because he only acted on false inteligence
40 NoUFO : More precisely, the report (or the beginning) says Bush's undisputed within his party but recently lost a lot of credibility within the population due
41 Post contains images NoUFO : Closer to the original topic: I think it's fine if non-Americans share their opinions on the candidates. It, however, shouldn't happen that i.e. Europ
42 Russophile : I really could care less about the US elections. Because whoever wins, it is likely to be the same old same old. But after the other night, I am 120%
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