Dtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1119 times:
"Painting himself as the noble agent for "the transformational power of liberty" abroad, he said "there have always been doubters" when America uses its "strength" to "advance freedom": "In 1946, 18 months after the fall of Berlin to Allied forces, a journalist in The New York Times wrote this: 'Germany is a land in an acute stage of economic, political and moral crisis. European capitals are frightened. In every military headquarters, one meets alarmed officials doing their utmost to deal with the consequences of the occupation policy that they admit has failed.' End quote. Maybe that same person's still around, writing editorials.
She isn't. Anne O'Hare McCormick, who died in 1954, was The Times's pioneering foreign affairs correspondent who covered the real Axis of Evil, interviewing Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and Patton. She was hardly a left-wing radical or defeatist. In 1937, she became the first woman to win a Pulitzer Prize in journalism, and she was the first woman to be a member of The Times's editorial board.
The president distorted the columnist's dispatch. The "moral crisis" and failure she described were in the British and French sectors. She reported that the Americans were doing better because of their policy to "encourage initiative and develop self-government." She wanted the U.S. to commit more troops and stay the course - not cut and run.
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1008 times:
Boy, you guys did not seem to mind when Michael Moore or John Kerry say things that are misleading or out of context. Bunch of hypocrits...
Let's stick to the point, Moore is a filmmaker, Bush is a President.
And the Swift Boat Vets are private citizens speaking their mind, as promissed in the 1st amendment, which was designed to protect speech of a political nature most of all, not the right to display gay porn at art shows.
The facts are that, if you look at newspapers and magazines for 1945-1950 or so, you will find that indeed European, and particularly German reconstruction, was considered by many to be a black hole for money, and with little hope for success. Die-hard Nazis were still conducting "resistance" well into 1946. There was fear that, given the opportunity to decide their own fate via democracy, the Germans would make choices that would only lead to more misery (again, after the 1932 elections).
It is a fact that even with a generally educated, hard-working and disciplined people like the Germans, rebuilding Germany took a long time and was not far from complete failure many times. Iraqis will be even tougher, considering their characteristics, but it is far too soon to call Iraq a failure. What took 5 years in Germany might take 10 or 20 in Iraq.
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 975 times:
Cfalk: It is a fact that even with a generally educated, hard-working and disciplined people like the Germans, rebuilding Germany took a long time and was not far from complete failure many times. Iraqis will be even tougher, considering their characteristics, but it is far too soon to call Iraq a failure. What took 5 years in Germany might take 10 or 20 in Iraq.
The self-delusion of the neocons just lies in the fact that there are several fundamental differences:
Germany had started World War II, and every german knew the defeat was merely the deserved backlash. Iraq was attacked without posing a threat to the USA or anybody else. Many americans still seem to believe otherwise, but the iraqis know better than that.
Germany had suffered a complete moral breakdown. Iraq suffered under its dictator but had no remotely comparable history.
Germany had declared war on the USA unprovoked. The USA have declared war on Iraq unprovoked.
The US occupation of Germany was a good deal more benevolent than the one of Iraq. Among other things, there was no parallel to Abu Ghraib.
Germany already had a strong cultural basis and even some democratic history to build a new democracy on. Iraq has none of that.
It is not just a matter of time. Ignoring the lessons of history is very dangerous. And apparently, the aggressors this time had no idea what they were getting their troops into.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 942 times:
in the 1st amendment, which was designed to protect speech of a political nature most of all, not the right to display gay porn at art shows.
I don't think you're qualified to comment on what it was designed to protect. It was designed to protect both, and if people want to display gay porn at art shows, they should without question be allowed.
Its called freedom, right? That's what we're supposed to have here, aren't we?