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262 Mass Graves Found In Iraq (1,000,000+ Victims)  
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2002 times:

262 mass graves discovered in Iraq

Kuwait City, Kuwait, Sep. 6 (UPI) -- Iraqi Human Rights Minister Bakhtiar Amin Monday said 262 mass graves have been found in Iraq containing remains of people killed by the ousted Baath regime.

Speaking upon his arrival in Kuwait to attend a meeting of countries with missing people in Iraq, Amin said Iraq's security situation prevented the government from searching for more mass graves and identifying the bodies..

He said the victims of Saddam's regime exceeded 1 million, but there was no accurate estimate.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040906-111041-9842r.htm

Saddam was such a nice guy now wasn't he. I guess we should have followed the advice of people like Howard Dean, some of the versions of John Kerry, the French & Germans, and others on the left as allowed Saddam to stay in power. His crimes against humanity weren't a good enough reason to invade Iraq but it sure was a good enough reason to bomb Serbia, Kosovo, and Bosnia as well as send thousands of troops.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Iraqi Human Rights Minister Bakhtiar Amin Monday said 262 mass graves have been found in Iraq containing remains of people killed by the ousted Baath regime.

No shit he said that. His country is on the brink of civil war. If he spawns a bit more hatred against the Baath party, then maybe he won't be hung.

Did all 1,000,000+ die after the US stopped supporting Iraq?


User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1971 times:

"Well, I knew it was 'mass' something."  Nuts

Signed,
Dubya


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1967 times:

"Speaking upon his arrival in Kuwait to attend a meeting of countries with missing people in Iraq, Amin said Iraq's security situation prevented the government from searching for more mass graves and identifying the bodies."

I'm asking myself who's de facto in charge of "Iraq's security situation"... four words come to mind... "Coalition of the Willing". Great score for Bush, really!

"He said the victims of Saddam's regime exceeded 1 million, but there was no accurate estimate."

Well, that should include the deaths from the Iran-Iraq war. I wonder whose side your favourite president's father was on in those days... Yep, Saddam!

"Saddam was such a nice guy now wasn't he. I guess we should have followed the advice of people like Howard Dean, some of the versions of John Kerry, the French & Germans, and others on the left as allowed Saddam to stay in power. His crimes against humanity weren't a good enough reason to invade Iraq but it sure was a good enough reason to bomb Serbia, Kosovo, and Bosnia as well as send thousands of troops."

Well, if you still think Saddam was a nice guy, welcome to 2004! Newsflash, the US is no longer supporting him; instead, its current president divided the Western World in two over the question of illegaly ousting him (which he ended up doing).

And, Mister Liberator, if you want freedom and democracy, why not go to war against China, North Korea, two thirds of Africa, Myanmar, Saudi-Arabia etc.? Oh I forgot, with half of those, the entire world does great business. Can't harm that, can we?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13599 posts, RR: 61
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1953 times:
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"Well, I knew it was 'mass' something."

Signed,
Dubya


Ok, even I have to admit that was funny!  Big grin



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1936 times:

...and others on the left as allowed Saddam to stay in power...


Why don't you quit putting words into our mouths and get your tongue out of the Elephant's ass? NOBODY denied that Saddam was a bad guy *Yet Haliburton still did business with him throughout the ninetees...with Dick Chenney!!!*...

Here were Bush's reasons during the whole *you have 24 hours to leave* speech:

1) Iraq has Weapons of Mass Distraction
2) they have ways of getting those weapons into the US and are a direct threat
3) Direct ties with Al-Quaeda

Where's the whole *Saddam's a bastard* reason?

I know Saddam was a prick, so does EVERYONE ELSE in this world, so why don't you do yourself a favor and stop blaming liberals/democrats for debating based on facts rather than sticking words into our mouths...



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1916 times:

"Saddam was such a nice guy now wasn't he. I guess we should have followed the advice of people like Howard Dean, some of the versions of John Kerry, the French & Germans, and others on the left as allowed Saddam to stay in power."

Maybe you ought to send an indignant letter to Bush 1, the now deceased Ronald Reagan and Donald Rumsfeld upon whose watch and assistance Saddam Hussein slaughtered and murdered his people. Posting rubbish on A.net just doesn't cut.

History's ugly little recorded realities state that it was Rumsfeld toasting Saddam with champagne at one of his ugly palaces in the 80s, not Dean or Kerry or some of those Franco-German socialists you know nothing about, but love to decry.

So perhaps, if Saddam Hussein wasnt the blue-eyed boy of the Reagan administration and if the very same hooligans who were making foreign policy in the REagan and Bush I and II administrations weren't supporting him even as he did his worst slaughtering between 1984 and 1988 those graves would have been much smaller. However, the US didnt go to bat for those murdered Iraqis then, and it didnt go to bat for murdered Iraqis now.

You need to test drive your rubbish revisionist version of history on the ignorant in your neck of the woods first before you post on here.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13599 posts, RR: 61
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1914 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

History's ugly little recorded realities state that it was Rumsfeld toasting Saddam with champagne at one of his ugly palaces in the 80s, not Dean or Kerry or some of those Franco-German socialists you know nothing about, but love to decry.

There are also some very famous photos of FDR and Stalin looking quite chummy at Malta - so what's your point?

There are many instances throughout history where friends became enemies and vice-versa. In Saddam's case, he was never a "friend" - just the lesser of two evils. We had the choice of Saddam or the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. We chose the one who best suited our needs at the time.

Same with FDR and Stalin - we chose the lesser of the two evils.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1909 times:

You'e not honestly comparing WWII to the Iran-Iraq war, are you?  Insane

For starters, Germany declared war on the US in WWII and was a serious threat to its security and its allies' security, and I can't say taking embassy staff hostage constitutes a declaration of war in my book.

[Edited 2004-09-08 03:09:37]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

"There are also some very famous photos of FDR and Stalin looking quite chummy at Malta - so what's your point?"

My point, just in case you were asleep during the 1980s or had no idea what or where Iraq was, was that the Reagan administration actively supported and courted Saddam Hussein right through his most murderous years - a point that holds up quite well under any scrutiny. So any concern about murdered Iraqis whether aired by an ignoran A.netter or a lying President is best laid to rest now before historical facts slap both in the face.


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1875 times:

"..the Reagan administration actively supported and courted Saddam Hussein.."

Why don't you tell us all why? Or would that be counterproductive to the point your failing to make?

Go ahead... we won't laugh...


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1865 times:

Why don't you tell us all why? Or would that be counterproductive to the point your failing to make?

Probably cause Iran scared him shitless.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1862 times:

""..the Reagan administration actively supported and courted Saddam Hussein.."

Why don't you tell us all why?"

Really? I'll give it a try, after you tell the families of dead Iraqis you claim to have liberated why we so actively supported the Butcher of Baghdad during his most murderous years. I am SURE that they will be VERY understanding.

And if you think that you're getting away with the tired argument that we supported Iraq because of the Iran-Iraq war, then perhaps I am sure you have some further explaining to do to the millions of dead Iraqis who were killed as a result of the US clandestine support to Iran. But then I am sure they will understand that too.

See, we were SO concerned about Iraqis (who we are now liberating since we couldnt find any WMDs) that we not only supported the man who killed them in tens of thousands, we also supported a country at war with Iraq that killed them in hundreds of thousands.

I hope you will still be laughing when some Iraqi kicks you in the nuts when you tell them how liberated they are.


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

I figured a response like that. Come on now Jay, you can do better.... go ahead, tell us.

User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1797 times:

There are many instances throughout history where friends became enemies and vice-versa. In Saddam's case, he was never a "friend" - just the lesser of two evils. We had the choice of Saddam or the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. We chose the one who best suited our needs at the time.
Same with FDR and Stalin - we chose the lesser of the two evils.


How truly noble. Saddam should have been kowtowing for all eternity at such benevolence (Mum, see how incredibly blessed I am – they picked me!), the ungrateful bastard!

By the way, how did choice come into the equation at all? Why did anyone have to choose between Saddam and the Ayatollah? Did someone use Bush's wonderful logic on America all those years ago? And is that the principle now? Once someone no longer suits our needs, we can bomb them into the Stone Age?


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1793 times:

Whatever dude! None of this can justify the invasion and illegal occupation of Iraq.

And again, where was the poison for Halabja sourced from?

-Roy


User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1789 times:

most of these deaths were from the shiite uprising after the 91 war.
the bush sr. administration has suggested that if the shiites rise up on saddam, they would get foreign support to overthrow saddam.

this led to their uprising against the dictatorship, which was then backstabbed by recieving no outside support against saddams airforce, leading to the majority of those million victims. keep in mind that the whole south of iraq had been liberated already when saddams tanks and airforce wiped the resistance out.

yet another bold move of u.s. politics, yet another time where u.s. politics play a huge role in the suffering of the iraqi people.(gulf war 1, the kurds and the gas supplied for gulf war 1, sanctions, gulf war 3)



10=2
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1786 times:

ROTFLMAO @ WellHung  Laugh out loud

Im gonna guess that some people on here still wish Saddam was in charge of Iraq and continuing to kill innocent civilians?  Yeah sure  Yeah sure



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6816 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1764 times:

Whatever dude! None of this can justify the invasion and illegal occupation of Iraq.

Whatever? There is NO whatever after a statement about MASS GRAVES. You are a pathetic, shallow soul.

Would you think the same thing if millions of Indians were murdered by a brutal dictator? Some of your own countrymen?

Your ignorance baffles me. Incomprehensible.

By your standards, we should allow mass genocide to go unchecked around the globe, huh?


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

"Whatever? There is NO whatever after a statement about MASS GRAVES. You are a pathetic, shallow soul."

And so are you and so are your foolish compatriots who supported Saddam Hussein during his most brutal years.

Now where was your concern for dead Iraqis when the Baathists were busy gassing Kurds to death and killing Shiites en masse? I suspect you were blissfully unaware of the existence of Iraq or like many of your Republican compatriots in the 1980s busy coddling Mr Hussein.

"We had the choice of Saddam or the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. We chose the one who best suited our needs at the time."

And I am sure that the dead and murdered Iraqis and their families see you as liberators for that act of expedience too. See, while dimwits in the US may see the US as liberators of Iraqis, the Iraqis - and the rest of the world- know better.

"I figured a response like that. Come on now Jay, you can do better.... go ahead, tell us."

LOL. Judging by your proud and shameless display of ignorance on this site, you figured nothing. But I am glad to be of assistance in offering you a much needed history lesson.
Now put down that Bush doll and try typing with both hands for a change.


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6816 posts, RR: 34
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

Jaysit- Well, I don't and will NOT condone the policies and practices of the US in regards to our actions and decisions before, during and following the Iran-Iraq War.

It's not defensible morally, other than in the manner you already couched it, "We chose the one who best suited our needs at the time." In foreign policy terms, that was the decision; in purely human terms, it wasn't. One thing of interest to note, however (without totally devolving into a discussion of the Iran-Iraq war, which is a fascinating study in global politics), is that our actions were also driven out of response to the actions of the Soviets, a major factor in the region.

So I guess that takes the wind out of your sails huh? You still don't get it do you> I'M NOT A BUSH SUPPORTER!! I'M NOT A REPUBLICAN! You bash me as a Bushie blindly.

But I'm not blind nor do I blindly accept the atrocities being committed around the world presently. It may not affect me directly, but that doesn't make it right. To whit, and Dennis Prager's column today touches upon this, right now there are innocent children being slaughtered, genocide is being committed agains blacks in the world, as well as black slavery, women are being murdered for imagined or real sexual behavior, women are benig stoned, Hindu temples, Buddhist sculptures and Christian churches are being destroyed, etc, etc, etc...and that's JUST what is being done by Muslims around the world at present time.

So Jaysit, what are YOU doing about it? Are you making your voice known? Have you written letters, done fundraising, written to your elected officials, gotten involved? Or are you comfortable to simply throw that arrow out without discretion?


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1733 times:

Cute Jay, you sound so similar to your fallen leader Alpo.. but lacking the substance. LOL...

I just find it strange you won't tell everyone the rest of the story instead of dodging the whole thing. But, it does not matter, the right things were done, and your whinning drivel won't convince anyone of anything.

 Big grin


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1729 times:

French & Germans, and others on the left as allowed Saddam to stay in power.

Boy,

You are a psychopat. You're putting the word "left" everywhere these days.

Now try to explain why nothing happened to him before, for example during the Gulf war, when it would have been very easy to get rid of him with a massive alliance from all Western countries.
Try also to explain why, if the solution to all our problems is to bomb and invade countries, the terrorism has increased since Iraq has been liberated.

And if you're justifying things with that kind of arguments, try also to explain why so many other dictatures are NOT being "treated" the same way.

I'll tell you why: because you can't do what you want with other countries like if it was a game. That leads to more violence.

Yes it was a brutal dictatorship, agreed. But now, please tell me why so many Iraqis are talking about invasion or occupation.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

"So Jaysit, what are YOU doing about it? Are you making your voice known? Have you written letters, done fundraising, written to your elected officials, gotten involved?"

Actually yes.
In relation to Iraq itself, when I was in college we forced MIT to divest all of its holdings in six companies - both US and foreign - that provided technological assistance to Iraq, made the university refuse to accept any research monies from these firms, and terminate joint research ventures with all of these firms. That took about 3 years of active protesting and work. We also worked with other major research universities in the US, the UK and France to ensure that much needed R&D was held back from such from companies. What else do you want to know?

"But, it does not matter, the right things were done."

Gee, maybe you can put your stump back in your pants, type with both hands and tell us how supporting a vicious dictator with arms, money, intelligence, technology, etc., even as he slaughtered his own people was the right thing to do. Actually you should first go to Baghdad and tell that to the Iraqis. Then if they buy your story on American complicity and support and dont kick your sorry ass back to the safety of your humvee, we'll welcome you back.
Hypocrite.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

"It's not defensible morally, other than in the manner you already couched it, "We chose the one who best suited our needs at the time." In foreign policy terms, that was the decision; in purely human terms, it wasn't."

You're absolutely right.

In terms of realpolitik - especially given the views of Jeanne Kirkpatrick at the time - we were acting in our own supposed self-interest. I say "supposed" because our support for the Shah during his Savak years certainly didnt enhance our self interest in the region, and supporting Saddam certainly came back to bite us in the ass in more ways than one. It turns out that supporting our favorite dictators at the enormous human cost it entailed also cost us the lives of our own people, our global reputation, and two enormously expensive wars.

However, getting back to the moral human concerns, there were none then, and there are none now. The lives of Iraqis only became worth a mention once the WMDs were not found. If they had been found, Bush would have crowed all the way to election 2004 without once mentioning the hapless people we have supposedly been liberating now for the past 24 years.


25 Slider : "But, it does not matter, the right things were done." FYI- this wasn't my quote. Don't know who you were talking to, but just wanted to clarify this
26 KCMike : Did Reagan and the rest of the world know about what was happening in Iraq with the genocide at those times?
27 Captoveur : "Did Reagan and the rest of the world know about what was happening in Iraq with the genocide at those times?" Most likely Countries don't have friend
28 Slider : "Did Reagan and the rest of the world know about what was happening in Iraq with the genocide at those times?" Most likely Countries don't have friend
29 Dan-air : Mass graves....Saddam was baaaaaaad man....Yeah yeah.... WHERE ARE THE WMD'S?
30 Post contains images Tasha : Did all 1,000,000+ die after the US stopped supporting Iraq... Perhaps not all, but I would wager most. How many died after the UK stopped supporting
31 JeffM : "Mass graves....Saddam was baaaaaaad man....Yeah yeah.... WHERE ARE THE WMD'S?" what do you think he used sh*t for brains?
32 Post contains images Dan-air : "Mass graves....Saddam was baaaaaaad man....Yeah yeah.... WHERE ARE THE WMD'S?" what do you think he used sh*t for brains? Ha-ha! I guess he musta use
33 Post contains images JeffM : LOL... Tons of ideas, none worth wasting on you. Thought for the day? How about... Kis$ my A$$? Nah, never mind... you might like it.
34 Dan-air : Thought for the day? How about... Kis$ my A$$? Nah, never mind... you might like it. You've discovered my little secret haven't you! Yes I'm gay! gayg
35 JeffM : Quite relieved actually. And it was not a stretch of the imagination for anyone to think you were anything but.
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