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Goebbels Rallies The Troops  
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1568 times:

Almost 65 years ago, the Nazis' rule in Germany was threatened by the Social Democratic party, which opposed Adolf Hitler's foreign policy and even began to oppose Hitler himself. To counter this, Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels addressed a crowd of Germans. With 25 Nazi swastika flags flying behind him, he told an excited, appreciative crowd:


I ask which leader is it today that has the vision, the willpower and, yes, the backbone to best protect us? [applause]

The clear answer to that question has placed me in this hall with you tonight.

There is but one man to whom I am willing to entrust our future and that man's name is Adolf Hitler. [cheering]

There are some crazy men who would kill us if they could. So Adolf Hitler has told us, "All private plans, all private lives, have been in a sense repealed by an overriding public danger." [cheers]

But where is the national unity in this country when we need it most? [cheering]

Now, while young Germans are dying in the mud in Czechoslovakia and the mountains of Poland, our nation is being torn apart and made weaker because of the Social Democrats' manic obsession to bring down our Führer. [cheering]

What has happened to the nation I've spent my life working in?

I can remember when Social Democrats believed that it was the duty of Germany to fight for freedom over tyranny.

Time after time in our history, in the face of great danger, Germans worked together to ensure that freedom would not falter. But not today. [applause]

Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Social Democratic leaders see Germany as an occupier, not a liberator.

And nothing makes me madder than someone calling German troops occupiers rather than liberators. [cheering]

Tell that to the Czechs, Poles, Frenchmen, and Belgians who have been freed because Adolf Hitler led an army of liberators, not occupiers. [great cheering]

Tell that to the millions of men, women and children who are free today from the Baltics to the Crimea, from Poland to the Balkans, because Adolf Hitler built a military of liberators, not occupiers. [cheering]

Never in the history of the world has any soldier sacrificed more for the freedom and liberty of total strangers than the German soldier. And, our soldiers don't just give freedom abroad, they preserve it for us here at home. [cheering]

Right now the world just cannot afford an indecisive Germany. Fainthearted, self-indulgence will put at risk all we care about in this world.

In this hour of danger our Führer has had the courage to stand up. And I am proud to stand up with him.

God Bless this great country and God bless Adolf Hitler.

[wild cheering]




Except for one thing. That speech was actually given by Zell Miller a few days ago. There weren't many words that had to be changed to make it into this example.

Source, http://harrybrowne.org/articles/GoebbelsAndMiller.htm



47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTasha From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

You cannot possibly be comparing Goebbles to Zell Miller? Miller, who served his country proudly in the USMC; who served his state as both Senator and Govenor. Zell Miller who is a devoted family man...

You are comparing his to someone who murdered his own children. I am deeply disappointed!

Tasha  Sad


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1533 times:

Is that a joke????? No, obviously not.... now that is...I don't know what to say actually! Speechless is the word that comes to mind!!  Wow!  Wow!  Wow!

Unfortunately he didn't commit a crime under US law, if I remember correctly, but maybe you could send this fully disturbed, criminally insane "person" to Germany and make him repeat it...I guess under German law we could put him into prison, and that is where he belongs...forever!

Just as a reminder for those who love him for his "words of wisdom" at the GOP rally: Goebbels was one of the most disgusting war criminals in Nazi Germany, on the same level as the "Groefaz" (Groesster Fuehrer aller Zeiten=Adolf Hitler), chief judge Freisler and the likes, using rhetorics and media control to push Germany into the "totale Krieg" (another creation of Goebbels) costing millions of lives.

Keep that in mind, just in case someone thinks it is legitimate to use such historical speeches.



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

"Zell Miller who is a devoted family man"

So was most of the nazi top (Göbbels, Speer among others)

Micke/SE *jeeeehhhh*



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1487 times:

I don't want to pour oil on the fire and of course I don't want to compare anybody with the Nazis, but that kind of speech is exactly the same of Bush speeches.
That's just a way to justify something with key words like liberation, freedom, God bless xxx and so on ...

Politics, only politics.


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1472 times:

Seb: Yes maybe just politics, but I'm not ready to say "so frigging what" to everything some so-called "politician" feels fit to fart out into the world.

And in this case, where a speech was basically copied, somebody MUST HAVE KNOWN that they copy a speech that was aimed at killing thousands of people delivered by one of the worst criminals under one of the most inhuman political system that ever plagued this planet.

Ok so be it, thanks for bringing this to our attention...quite revealing it is just how low politics are nowadays!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineDamirc From Slovenia, joined Feb 2004, 726 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1461 times:

From what I gather the speech has got nothing to do with Goebbels.

F
I
L
L
E
R

D.


User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1449 times:

And in this case, where a speech was basically copied, somebody MUST HAVE KNOWN that they copy a speech that was aimed at killing thousands of people delivered by one of the worst criminals under one of the most inhuman political system that ever plagued this planet.

i think it was not copied. the speech was given and written by zell (probably written by advisors), and the author of the site changed names and places within the speech do demonstrate that it was made of the same flesh as goebbels speeches. it could have been a speech by goebbels, but it was not. at least this is my reading of the report.

cheers, r-


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1440 times:

Damirc: No it doesn't DEAL with Goebbels, is a speech BY Goebbels!

But ok, funny enough nobody sems to care, so I won't either, in the end this man is an exclusively American problem, to care about things that are somehow connected to Nazi Germany on the other hand seems nowadays to be problem only Germans care about ...so be it!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5694 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1432 times:

it could have been a speech by goebbels, but it was not. at least this is my reading of the report.

I agree. I think the point was to show that Miller's could be easily mistaken for Goebbels' speech by just changing few names and places. I don't think they wanted to compare him to Goebbels but to show he's using same speech techniques and fact twisting. Because if you read it really carefully, the speech is full of historical and gegraphical inaccuracies:

Almost 65 years ago, the Nazis' rule in Germany was threatened by the Social Democratic party.

By September 1939 Nazis virtually unlimited rule over Germany was not threatened by the soc. dems.

Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Social Democratic leaders see Germany as an occupier, not a liberator.

There was no partisan politics in Gemany back then, since it was one-party (NSDAP) dictatorship. The soc dem leaders probably saw Germany as occupier, but their angle of perspective was most likely through barbed wire fences of concentration camps so it did not matter anyway.

while young Germans are dying in the mud in Czechoslovakia and the mountains of Poland

- Czechoslovakia surrendered according to the conditions of the Munich Treaty "to save peace for our times" (as Chemberlain naively thought) in 8/1938 and the rest was occupied as a Protectorate on 15/3/1939 virtually without firing a shot.

- Poland is almost completely flat. At least in the East-West direction in which Wehrmacht (and Red Army) proceeded post Sept. 1 1939 to split Poland in half (once again).

Tell that to the Czechs, Poles, Frenchmen, and Belgians who have been freed because Adolf Hitler led an army of liberators.

In the beginning of 9/1939 German campaign against France and Belgium was still a thing of the future and Poland was still bravely resisting.

Tell that to the millions of men, women and children who are free today from the Baltics to the Crimea, from Poland to the Balkans

same as previous


User currently offlineDamirc From Slovenia, joined Feb 2004, 726 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1416 times:

Andreas: my point was - that it is NOT a speech by Goebbels.

D.


User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1393 times:

Superficial similarities aside - I think there is a much more troubling analogy between much (not all) of the US politicial discourse and the one in nazi Germany six decades ago:


Democracy thrives on constructive dissent, on open discussion, on looking at the facts and drawing rational conclusions, on free expression of opinions.

Authoritarian regimes do everything to avoid any of the above. Instead of common sense and rational thought, all their power is based on emotion, on carefully honed prejudice, on fear of everything - most prominently the fear of speaking up; The desperately need an arch enemy they can use to focus their population´s anger on so it won´t be directed at the quasi-deified leaders. Criticism of the "beloved leaders" is declared equivalent to treason. Violence and the uninhibited use of power are the primary ways to address any problem in the world.


Let´s be clear: Even the best democratic society will always have emotional and irrational components. But from the beginning of the Bush presidency (even before 9-11!) the discourse was progressively distorted and shifted from a free democratic exchange towards an emotional leader cult with all the paraphernalia described in the second part.

Even the physical manifestations have begun to be increasingly similar: Sure, there probably aren´t any death camps. But torture and occupation in Iraq, "extra-legal" prisoner camps, war as a replacement of diplomacy - the list is long and still growing...

The end point may not be quite as horrible, but the tendencies are unmistakably similar.

This has been one of the reasons why europeans are so resentful of the "new american way": We´ve seen before where this kind of thinking is leading.  Sad

On the other hand, I doubt that today´s americans would put up with this kind of thing for the duration. Even the constant fear-mongering is beginning to get blunt and boring. Let´s just hope the turnaround comes before the next Iraq-sized disaster.


User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1374 times:

So what about Bush is so terrifying to you guys? I thought he was a bumbling idiot who was incapable of speaking?

Why the comparisons to Hitler?

You really need a hobby or something if you are sitting around convincing yourself Bush is the next Hitler, or if you believed that thread where he was supposed to be the anti-christ.


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1372 times:

And you Captoveur need some lessons in reading..URGENTLY!

Then some lessons in UNDERSTANDING..extremely URGENT!

And then...maybe, just maybe...your posts could make sense!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1372 times:


I thought he was a bumbling idiot who was incapable of speaking.So what about Bush is so terrifying to you guys

A bumblking idiot who can easily be manipulated by big business nad criminal advisors. A president with a bit of intelligence would not be so easily misled.



User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1355 times:

I think you boys are overreacting just a smidge. You can take many speeches and change text to make them appear like they came from Nazi Germany. While you're at it, you can change them again to make them sound like they came from colonial America before 1776. This comparison is amusing but your reactions are laughable.

And Indianguy, one of the reasons GWB is where he is is from people constantly underestimating him. Keep it up, big guy; for the good of our country.  Big grin



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1349 times:

"A bumblking idiot who can easily be manipulated by big business nad criminal advisors. A president with a bit of intelligence would not be so easily misled."

I thought "nad criminal advisor" was something pioneered under the Clinton administration.

*Rimshot*

And this one time, at band camp, we changed a few words in one of Michael Moores speeches and it almost had some basis in fact.

If the speech given at the RNC was WORD FOR WORD a speech from Goebbels I might give you something but you really need to get over yourselves. Political speeches have had the same content since the beginning of time, no matter what the source.

So is Kerry opposed to anything regardless of his audience yet? When that happens, start a thread.. Until then save Johan's bandwidth.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1342 times:

People today wonder how Germans, who are and were fine people, were duped into supporting Hitler and the Nazi party.

Will people one day wonder how the United States went so wrong? Not that I'm saying we're going to become exactly like a Nazi-type regime, but look at our foreign wars that we start, our unhumble foreign policy, our tremendous loss of freedoms and liberties at home, and the ever-growing, ever-consuming federal government.



The speech is not by Goebbels. Zell Meller's speech was slightly doctored (just change a few names/terms) to show how similiar the rhetoric is.


User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1332 times:

What a bunch of tripe but it should be expected from a guy who's primary platform is to legalize drugs.

In 1939, the Nazis were in total control of Germany. There was not a threat of another party taking over as by that time the Nazis had all but eliminated opposing parties. If Goebbels actually gave such a speech, which I seriously doubt, it wasn't in 1939 and it didn't include 90% of the garbage that Browne is spewing.

I've found that people that throw out the term Nazi are probably closer to being a Nazi than those that they accuse of being one.



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

Will people one day wonder how the United States went so wrong?

If you starting seeing gas-chambers popping up in Nebraska, let us know.



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1305 times:

If you starting seeing gas-chambers popping up in Nebraska, let us know.

no gas yet in Nebraska, but electric chairs! but at least they dont electrocute mentally ill in Nebraska!

of course it is far-fetched to compare the US as they are right now with nazi Germany. but if you look closely, you'll find a few similarities in history.

for instance, the striking racism and segregation, involving lynching people even in the 50'ies makes one wonder. although slaves were not killed systematically in gas chambers, they were seen as racially inferior, terribly exploited, reproduction was controlled, and their life was worth a penny. at least in alabama, i suppose.

also the nazi's planned to eradicate unworthy life, i.e. poor people, mentally handicapped people and the like. they did it. american eugenicists sterilized 60.000 people, mostly against their (and often against the law) will during in the 1930'ies and 40's. don't believe it? read it: http://www.waragainsttheweak.com. but it has changed for the better.

there is some more, i.e., medical experimentation with prisoners and all that sh*t.


some final thoughts:

A: power means always a threat of abuse of power. the more power you have, the more you can screw and do well. power is a risk and chance.
B: the risk of power in a democracy is controlled by critical media, and a politically informed, active people.

regarding A: there is no doubt that the USA is the only superpower.
regarding B: not living in america myself, i am not in a position to judge how effectively this risk is controlled.



cheers, r.




User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1298 times:

"no gas yet in Nebraska, but electric chairs! but at least they dont electrocute mentally ill in Nebraska!"

We had the electric chair long before Bush. I think Texas actually uses lethal injection, however. Personally, that person was together enough to commit the capital crime, so why are they not with it enough to face the punishment? You might actually have something on your Nazi analogy if people were being executed only because they are mentally ill, unfortunantly (for your argument), that is not the case, they must first commit a crime, some minor infraction like pre-meditated murder, then be convicted and put to death by a jury of 12 of their peers. Wow, that Bush, such a Nazi.

Some states are considering getting rid of the death penalty, Texas is putting in an express line. Makes me proud to now be a Texan.


User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1291 times:

might actually have something on your Nazi analogy if people were being executed only because they are mentally ill, unfortunantly (for your argument), that is not the case, they must first commit a crime, some minor infraction like pre-meditated murder, then be convicted and put to death by a jury of 12 of their peers. Wow, that Bush, such a Nazi.

dude, dont feel personally attacked! i did not want to say that bush is a Nazi. see what i wrote:

of course it is far-fetched to compare the US as they are right now with nazi Germany. but if you look closely, you'll find a few similarities in history.

at the same time, i am not a supporter of the death penalty (dont want to start this discussion though), and that is why i had to respond to your remark on gas chambers. because there ARE gas chambers in the US, e.g., in Missouri. of course, they are used differently than they were in Germany.


so - cheer up my friend!


r.





User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1287 times:

"of course, they are used differently than they were in Germany."

So what is your point then?


User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1279 times:

i was referring to this dialogue:

Will people one day wonder how the United States went so wrong?

If you starting seeing gas-chambers popping up in Nebraska, let us know.

my first thought was - wait there ARE gas chambers in the US, they do not need to pop up. the JetService guy was not talking about how to use them. so wasnt I.

but anyways, my remark on the electric chair in nebraska was probably the least serious and important part of my post.







25 Kellmark : The viciousness of the attacks on Bush are indeed approaching a shrill level. Another comparison of him to Hitler. How unusual, original and fair mind
26 Klaus : Kellmark: The viciousness of the attacks on Bush are indeed approaching a shrill level. Another comparison of him to Hitler. Sorry, you´re just wrong
27 Post contains images Tasha : "There is an unmistakable correlation between the kind of propaganda that´s being used by the Bush camp and the one used by Goebbels and Co. That is
28 Klaus : Tasha: Klaus if you think so, that is up to you. I don't see it as ANY diffrent at all from what Kerry is using against Bush. I think that all here wh
29 B2707SST : tremendous loss of freedoms and liberties at home List them. There is an unmistakable correlation between the kind of propaganda that´s being used by
30 Klaus : Even by american standards the kind of propaganda coming from the Bush camp is rather extreme in its focus on fear, hate and chauvinism. Sorry, but th
31 Post contains links and images B2707SST : Even by american standards the kind of propaganda coming from the Bush camp is rather extreme in its focus on fear I love how running on a platform of
32 B757300 : On the other side... Don't forget the piece of crap coming out by Kitty Kelly. NBC will be running a three day expo on it next week. Of course they pr
33 Post contains images Klaus : "National security" is fine by me. What´s deeply troubling is the complete replacement of common sense and factual background with emotion, prejudice
34 Post contains links MD-90 : B2707SST, of course it didn't start with Bush. It started with Lincoln, actually. Here are some good links comparing Japan to America as far as freedo
35 Post contains links B2707SST : I'm pretty familiar with Lew Rockwell's work; I spend way too much time on Mises.org, am well-versed in Austrian econ, and went to two week-long semin
36 Post contains images Tasha : I too would like to comment here as I love politics, but I have been censored again today when someone didn't like what I had to say. So I will attemp
37 Post contains images L410Turbolet : Tasha, WTF, are you talking about? The thread is about allegory and parody to Miller's speech and how propaganda still works. What does France has to
38 Indianguy : My dear Tasha: A college degree, even from Harvard is no guarantee for intelligence. To sample some of GWB's "intelligence" please visit :
39 Klaus : Tasha: To Klaus.... who insists that George Bush is one of the most evil men in the world Learn to read, my dear. Tasha: and that I have never been to
40 Captoveur : Roy, when you are being a moron it helps if you post the link that supports your idiocy instead of just a blank which makes you look like an idiot any
41 NoUFO : It's clearly a highly superficial election campaign where one side says that Kerry has won three purple hearts decades ago while the other side has no
42 MD11Engineer : NoUfo, East Germany was also a "Republik", but definitely NOT democratic, same as the People´s Republic of China, North Korea and most of the Warsaw
43 NoUFO : That's correct, Jan. Ok, there is this vow "I pledge allegiance to the flag (…) and to the republic for which it stands." But to claim the USA "is n
44 MD-90 : Oh, LAW now I have read EVERYTHING! To MD-90.... From everything you have written in this forum it is easy to tell that you are very, ummmm, leftist.
45 MD-90 : The people who are going to vote in the US elections in November are naive if they think that any real changes will occur based upon their vote. The E
46 Post contains images Tasha : noUFO: "@ Tasha: Could you please name one major representing of America's liberal press that had a critical view on the Bush administration when war
47 Dl021 : The US is indeed a republic. We use democratic processes to elect our government, but we are definitely a republic. Look it up. A democracy has everyo
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