Planespotterx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1755 times:
Id say Pearl Harbor too, as had it not happened, the US would have regained some of its navy power which would have helped in the defeat of Japan.
Talking of Japan, I wonder why noone cares about the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki anymore..
Planespotterx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1750 times:
Well thousands died in the nuclear attacks carried out by the US, and we dont have any "holidays" or one minute silence for them.
And yet the US is attacked killing 3000 or so, and its "everyone be quiet" and if you have an opinion about WHY it happened, the US brand you a terrorist.
Planespotterx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1739 times:
Im sorry, im not condoning whats happened in the US, I just find it odd sometimes that they often forget the suffering theyve caused to other people even if it was 50 years ago, it shouldnt be forgotten.
I wish for peace just as the next person, and I hope Bush eventually gets rid of all these fanatical terrorists once and for all, even if it does mean war.
AirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3746 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1728 times:
Why should we have a moment of silence for the victims of our Nukes? They were the enemy, and we were trying to bring the enemy to its knees. I know that you all will spout off about innocent women and children, my response to the are the words collateral damage. If we didn't worry so much about hurting the innocent the war in Iraq would have been over a long time ago, and don't get me started on how we could have dominated the Vietnam War.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
Whitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1716 times:
Why should we have a moment of silence for the victims of our Nukes? They were the enemy, and we were trying to bring the enemy to its knees.
Change "our nukes" to "those planes" and you just justified Al Quaeda and 9/11. Sentiments like that just ensure even more hatred is kept alive. Maybe you should go walk in Times Square and explain all about collateral damage. You might last a couple of minutes if you are lucky before someone shoves an umbrella up your ignorant ass.
Innocent victims of war are exactly that, innocent. Trying to apply double standards is never going to win the moral argument against terror. The innocent who died in Japan and New York all deserve remembrance.
Elisabete From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1694 times:
planespotterx....a quick question: does England also have a holiday or holidays for all the killings, pain and suffering that they too have caused to other lands, territories or/and nations during the period of its Empire? For example, do you have a holiday for the killings that England caused to Ireland?
We all have other opinions and views on America and wonderful to debate too. Right now, the rest of the world dislike America, I believe not the American people but our current President and his Administration, which they are entitled .....
What I do not understand is why do other nations forget their own histories? Why, for example, do the English people criticize America, without first addressing their own sins towards others since the beginning of their own history. Additionally why, for example, don't the French people examine the time that they too were an Empire under that famous, little General named Napoleon ....what right did Napoleon have to invade the rest of Europe?
(I will share a personal example ...My ancestors are from a Portuguese region known as "Coimbra." When Napoleon decided to invade Portugal, a famous battle took place near the border of Portugal/Spain, but inside of Portuguese territory. The name of this place was "Almeida." The men of my mother's side of the family were soldiers in that battle, which, by the way, the Portuguese kicked the French's asses lolol ...why is this battle so important to my family? Due to this famous battle, my ancestors on my mother's side of the family adoped the last name of "de Almeida" to show that they too participate in that famous battle against the French and this story has been carried down to the present.)
The bottom line is that yes, right now, America is a superpower but if history teaches us anything, Empires rise and fall, superpowers also rise and fall. Most importantly, however, most of the nations must first look at themselves...look at their own history ...and if they are without sin, then criticize us, our government, our policies....if they are with sin like us, then please think carefully before you write and speak .......
I apologize for changing the topic. In conclusion, both attacks are at equal footing and it is still to early in the game, to fully understand and see the impact of Sept.11th...three years is not enough .....
AMS From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1693 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1660 times:
I have visited Ground-Zero last week, and I was surprised to see this location has become a Hudge Tourist attraction. Off course its still quite a strange feeling standing at the actual site were this horrible situation happened.
Mdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4143 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1641 times:
I believe that 9/11 was worse as it was a civilian attack. Not to mention that so many people around the world saw it happen live.
planespotterx..like what Elisabete said, the British should be having remembrances for events like the Massacre of Amritsar where hundreds of peaceful protesters (mostly women and children) in India were fired upon by a British regiment, and couldn't escape as the protesters were in a compound.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
Flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7507 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1583 times:
The 9/11 attacks were much more tragic! It was inicent people just at work or as PAX in a plane. And also the crews and PD and FD that is why it is remembered as worse.
Pearl Harbour was horrible, but they were Navy and Air Force members and a war was going on.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2479 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1569 times:
PlanespotterX, while the innocents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki deserve to be remembered, as they undoubtedly still are in Japan, it's a bit different from 9/11, a terrorist attack. You can argue that U.S. foreign policies that inflame hatred in the Muslim world were a catalyst for it and I won't argue, there's surely some rationale, there. However, 9/11 was a brutal, unprovolked strike at the U.S.'s pre-eminent financial center and military headquarters. The WTC in particular was singled out due to its large civilian workforce and potential for a high death toll, making it especially symbolic for Muslim extremist hatred. What the U.S. did in the two Japanese, though horrible for the civilians who suffered (and yes, I've read John Hersey's superb book, "Hiroshima", which details the agony of the first city's victims) was simply a part of wartime strategy to force a Japanese surrender, not a deliberate plot to kill civilians en masse. The philosophies behind the nuke attacks and that of 9/11 were vastly different. Obviously, the U.S. didn't start the conflict with the Japanese while Al Queda most definitely initiated this new War On Terror with their strikes on us. The U.S. alternative to the nukes would have been a full-scale invasion of Japan, which would have cost vastly more Japanese civilian lives, as well as that of many our troops. It can't be forgotten that the U.S. spent huge sums to rebuild Japan after the war; would Al Queda be so generous were they to win this new war? The difference between conventional wartime conduct and terrorist conduct is that they prefer to hit, rather than avoid, civilians. In the old wars, civilian casualties were collateral damage, in this new one, for the Muslim terrorists, anyway, civilians are the primary target. Look at what just happened in Russia! I mourn the Japanese who died and suffered in that old war, it was a most terrible thing, which was nevertheless, simply part of war. The difference in the new war is that the terrorists didn't start it because of any specific thing we'd done to them, as was the case in most of the old wars, but simply because our lifestyle, philosophies and government are hugely different from theirs and that we help others who differ from them as well, like Israel. They simply refuse to compromise, just denounce our way of living and try to kill us. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was not nearly so heinous as what Al Queda and friends are trying to do to us; it was out of frustration over our economic blockade and mainly a military target. It seems the old rules of war no longer apply. I'm not supportive of the U.S.-led War in Iraq, which I think has diverted resources away from stopping more Al Queda attacks, however a lot of good will still come out of that, even if the reasons for going in weren't fully justified. I grieve for the many Iraqi civilian casualties but the population as a whole is better off without the tyranny of Hussein, though I acknowledge that alone doesn't justify the war. I believe Iraq being tied in with 9/11 is misleading, given no verifiable connections between Saddam and Al Queda, however, he is of like sentiment with them about the U.S. so the potential for them to collaborate was there. The 9/11 attacks didn't kill nearly as many as the U.S. did in Japan or even in Iraq, recently but in terms of what they represented, they are among the most evil acts ever committed, being rivaled only by the recent Madrid train bombing and the assault on the Russian school.
DfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1084 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1560 times:
Definitly 9/11.... Pearl Harbor was just a military power play like hundreds before it. September 11th will define the next decades as the single event that marked the shift into a new political era.
What's so unfortunate is the entire world really dropped the ball on a perfect oppurtunity to define a new world order. We'd all been kinda running around doing our own thing after the fall of the USSR, 9/11 could have been the event that really pulled a cohesive global community together. Very few people outside of sheer extremist cheered when the U.S. was hit, whereas in 1914, if the nation enjoying "place in the sun" was harmed, people danced in the street. Humanity has come so damn far in just 100 years, and 9/11 could have been another step forward.
I fault so many parties with this failure to aquiesce that it is mindboggeling... but in the end, it really was every single person in the western world. I think Bush took the wrong stance on 9/11, and with an 85+% approval rating, he took that message and ran like hell-
What Bush Said-
Let's go get'em
What we replied-
What Bush should have said
Look bitches, its the year 2000 frickin 1, we can't let these systems to stand-
C. Social Injustice
D. Radical/unrepresentative forms of governement
What we should have replied-
Wow that's deep, I thought you were stupid or somethin
It isn't as simple as blaming Bush, as he acted as just about every single man in his position would have. It takes great men that come only once in a century to not take the easier course of action...
QIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1534 times:
I must say 9/11 as well. No one knew this was coming. At least of what I know. This came as a great chock for everybody except the people knowing about it.
But like others have written so far we must not only remember this one because it happened in the US. There are so many terrorist attacks around the world and slaughtering of innocent people. But we donøt remember them. Just look at Rwanda. Hell.... NO one even mentions that anymore. If that happened in the US or in the western world everybody remember it.